A different take on this "rivalry" question

[raf4488]

USC-east is in the SEC.

The University of South Carolina was a charter member of the ACC, left in 1971, and joined the SEC in 1991.

 

[raf4488]

As long as were winning ACC championships and going to final fours I could give a damn what any ACC school thinks about SU. When we're beating them regularly the animosity will grow.

SU-UNC, SU-Duke, or SU-UL can be what Duke-UMd was in the early 00s.

 

[itsbotime]

SU-UNC, SU-Duke, or SU-UL can be what Duke-UMd was in the early 00s.

No. SU fans aren't like Maryland fans...and that is a very good thing.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

 

[Trueblue25]

UNC and Duke will learn to fear and respect us.

They say they don't care because of there arrogant self reassurance that the spotlight is fixated on them. In 5 years not many people will care about the Duke UNC rivalry. It will be whoever is in 2nd place, UNC or UL, against reigning 2014,2015 national champions Cuse.

 

[orange79]

Too far north.. just as she thinks Florida is too far south. She thinks the "true" ACC schools are in the Caroinas and Virginia. I emphasize again, this woman is not some random yahoo. She is a very intelligent and accomplished woman.

Does she enjoy living in the 60's?

 

[realorange]

UNC and Duke will learn to fear and respect us.

They say they don't care because of there arrogant self reassurance that the spotlight is fixated on them. In 5 years not many people will care about the Duke UNC rivalry. It will be whoever is in 2nd place, UNC or UL, against reigning 2014,2015 national champions Cuse.

Well, they may learn to begrudgingly respect us but there will still be Many people who care about Duke vs NC. That rivalry in basketball is the equivalent of Harvard-Yale in football.

 

[Trueblue25]

Well, they may learn to begrudgingly respect us but there will still be Many people who care about Duke vs NC. That rivalry in basketball is the equivalent of Harvard-Yale in football.

I'm sure it will still be an intense rivalry... just won't be the headline of the ACC anymore

 

[GonzoInMD]

"Her" ACC isn't coming back and she's understandably upset about it...as we would be if the shoe were on the other foot. In our case, we've gone through our mourning period for the old Big East. Those southerners just take a lot longer to get over things.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Spent time yesterday with a very intelligent and accomplished woman who is a serious sports fan. She's a grad of UNC; her husband is a grad of UVA and their son is a student student athlete at Clemson in s non-revenue sport.

She is very unhappy about "the invasion" of the traditional ACC by "all these foreign teams." She said Miami, FSU and BC are still not accepted as "true" ACC schools... and that she's delighted that MD is leaving for the Big 10. She realizes this is all being done in the name of TV dollars, but says that doesn't mean she has to like it.

She says her viewpoint is shared by virtually everyone she knows in the Carolinas. And she says fans of Syracuse (and the other new schools) are delusional if they think the Carolina schools will ever consider them their real rivals.

This woman is very active in a national sports governing body where she has held significant positions, so she is not just some random UNC fan. I was stunned by the vehemence of her position -- which, as I said above, she says is widely shared. I know her fairly well, and I have never heard be so strident about anything.

Spent time yesterday with a very intelligent and accomplished woman who is a serious sports fan. She's a grad of UNC; her husband is a grad of UVA and their son is a student student athlete at Clemson in s non-revenue sport.

She is very unhappy about "the invasion" of the traditional ACC by "all these foreign teams." She said Miami, FSU and BC are still not accepted as "true" ACC schools... and that she's delighted that MD is leaving for the Big 10. She realizes this is all being done in the name of TV dollars, but says that doesn't mean she has to like it.

She says her viewpoint is shared by virtually everyone she knows in the Carolinas. And she says fans of Syracuse (and the other new schools) are delusional if they think the Carolina schools will ever consider them their real rivals.

This woman is very active in a national sports governing body where she has held significant positions, so she is not just some random UNC fan. I was stunned by the vehemence of her position -- which, as I said above, she says is widely shared. I know her fairly well, and I have never heard be so strident about anything.

Some of us basically have been saying this since day one of our ACC move.
The concept may seem foreign unless you've spent some time living in ACC country.
It's very much a "southern" conference...culturally and geographically.
We may not care much about that.
They do.
Miami? a southern city filled with non-southerners.

We'll have some great competition.
With SU, Duke, UNC, Pitt, Louisville, ND and perhaps the re-emergence of Miami and UVA the ACC will be the best basketball conference in America.
But we're leaving our arch rival and our #2 behind.
To the old ACC schools, we're just another opponent.
We're outsiders who will never really be accepted.
(ESPECIALLY WHEN WE CLOBBER THEM ON THE COURT!)

 

[itsbotime]

[te="Trueblue25, post: 733659, member: 3410"]UNC and Duke will learn to fear and respect us.

They say they don't care because of there arrogant self reassurance that the spotlight is fixated on them. In 5 years not many people will care about the Duke UNC rivalry. It will be whoever is in 2nd place, UNC or UL, against reigning 2014,2015 national champions Cuse.[/quote]

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. UNC/Duke isn't some flash in the pan botique rivalry...it is the best rivalry in college basketball and has been for some time now. With all due respect, Cuse joining the ACC is not going to change that.

 

[Ghost]

Eh, she's from North Carolina? My sister lives in Raleigh and I run into more people from Rochester there than I do in Rochester. I guess that's the "South," but we kinda' sort-of took that area over already.

Delighted to see Maryland gone? Okay, she's clearly a tad out of her mind. Who else would she add that's more fitting than Maryland for the true ACC? UNC-Greensboro, UNC-Asheville, Coastal Carolina, Davidson, and Gardener-Webb?

If I was them I would probably share the position that we'll never be "real rivals," but that isn't mind-blowing. They have pretty historic rivalries, anything we develop would obviously be secondary.

 

[moqui]

It's very much a "southern" conference...culturally and geographically.

it also thinks of itself as a football conference, and is trying to position itself as an elite one at that.

and that is going to be the real reason they won't accept us . . . northern football sucks. SU and BC and Pitt look like they are going to do fpr ACC football strength what DePaul, USF and Rutgers did for Big East basketball.

 

[Toga]

Eh, she's from North Carolina? My sister lives in Raleigh and I run into more people from Rochester there than I do in Rochester. I guess that's the "South," but we kinda' sort-of took that area over already.

Delighted to see Maryland gone? Okay, she's clearly a tad out of her mind. Who else would she add that's more fitting than Maryland for the true ACC? UNC-Greensboro, UNC-Asheville, Coastal Carolina, Davidson, and Gardener-Webb?

If I was them I would probably share the position that we'll never be "real rivals," but that isn't mind-blowing. They have pretty historic rivalries, anything we develop would obviously be secondary.

Yeah - what the heck is with the Maryland comment?

 

[Trueblue25]

[te="Trueblue25, post: 733659, member: 3410"]UNC and Duke will learn to fear and respect us.

They say they don't care because of there arrogant self reassurance that the spotlight is fixated on them. In 5 years not many people will care about the Duke UNC rivalry. It will be whoever is in 2nd place, UNC or UL, against reigning 2014,2015 national champions Cuse.

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. UNC/Duke isn't some flash in the pan botique rivalry...it is the best rivalry in college basketball and has been for some time now. With all due respect, Cuse joining the ACC is not going to change that.[/quote]



The yankees and redsox are the best rivalry in baseball. Doesn't mean the JAys, Rays, and O's can't be the best team in baseball theoretically.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Invite a girl to the dance, dance with her.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

She says her viewpoint is shared by virtually everyone she knows in the Carolinas. And she says fans of Syracuse (and the other new schools) are delusional if they think the Carolina schools will ever consider them their real rivals.

.

The line between hate and being a real rival is quite small. If SU comes in winning and taking over arenas, the dislike will be there. The recent Northern school thing will add to the dislike. They may not want to call it a rivalry but it seems like several games will have that kind of feel.

Similar thing happens here. Some people find it upsetting that the biggest attraction is Duke, but Duke already has UNC. And UNC finds it disturbing because SU doesn't give UNC the same attention that it gives Duke. Lots of issues to sort out, should be interesting.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The important thing is, we get a full share of conference revenue.

That ends the argument.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[itsbotime]

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. UNC/Duke isn't some flash in the pan botique rivalry...it is the best rivalry in college basketball and has been for some time now. With all due respect, Cuse joining the ACC is not going to change that.

The yankees and redsox are the best rivalry in baseball. Doesn't mean the JAys, Rays, and O's can't be the best team in baseball theoretically.[/quote]

Agree about that. My disagreement was with your assertion that within 5 years the UNC/Duke rivalry will be irrelevant. The rivalry has been through a lot more difficult challenges than an ACC expansion and it has done just fine. Let's just hypothetically say that 'Cuse wins the national title in 2014...when the ACC schedule comes out for the next year, you'll still see UNC/Duke as the last game on each other's conference schedule.

Syracuse and Duke have had almost all of their success tied to a single coach. UNC has proven that it is bigger than Dean, and my suspicion is that 'Cuse and Duke will prove that they are bigger than Boeheim and Coach K. I don't think any traditional ACC rivalries are in danger of disappearing, with the exception of Maryland/Duke.

 

[No Hoyas]

Some of us basically have been saying this since day one of our ACC move.
The concept may seem foreign unless you've spent some time living in ACC country.
It's very much a "southern" conference...culturally and geographically.
We may not care much about that.
They do.
Miami? a southern city filled with non-southerners.

We'll have some great competition.
With SU, Duke, UNC, Pitt, Louisville, ND and perhaps the re-emergence of Miami and UVA the ACC will be the best basketball conference in America.
But we're leaving our arch rival and our #2 behind.
To the old ACC schools, we're just another opponent.
We're outsiders who will never really be accepted.
(ESPECIALLY WHEN WE CLOBBER THEM ON THE COURT!)

ha ha...we're leaving #2 behind...

 

[FireballPhil]

Spent time yesterday with a very intelligent and accomplished woman who is a serious sports fan. She's a grad of UNC; her husband is a grad of UVA and their son is a student student athlete at Clemson in s non-revenue sport.

She is very unhappy about "the invasion" of the traditional ACC by "all these foreign teams." She said Miami, FSU and BC are still not accepted as "true" ACC schools... and that she's delighted that MD is leaving for the Big 10. She realizes this is all being done in the name of TV dollars, but says that doesn't mean she has to like it.

She says her viewpoint is shared by virtually everyone she knows in the Carolinas. And she says fans of Syracuse (and the other new schools) are delusional if they think the Carolina schools will ever consider them their real rivals.

This woman is very active in a national sports governing body where she has held significant positions, so she is not just some random UNC fan. I was stunned by the vehemence of her position -- which, as I said above, she says is widely shared. I know her fairly well, and I have never heard be so strident about anything.

Having lived 5 years in North Carolina, I can understand where she is coming from. As far as traditional rivalries, it will always be Duke/NC. Nothing else in anyone's mind ever comes close. I always felt bad for NC State, and to a smaller extent Wake Forest, because to hear people talk, those two really don't exist, at least on the sports front. The only way we will ever be accepted as true rivals is to win. And then win some more. Maybe ten years down the road, if we consistently win, we will start to get talked about. But for now, we have to work our way into the picture. And that, in the tradition steeped south, is going to require a lot of work. I believe we are one of the few teams that have the ability to pull this off. We shall see, but I agree at least on the short term, the lady is 100% right. I would like to think the friendship shared between Coach K and JB, and to a lesser extent JB and RW will help in this, but I am not sure it will have that great of an effect. There is so much hatred of either Duke or NC, that I had seen fistfights between neighbors over who is the best team before. The passion runs deep. Loyalties are high.

I would be remiss not to add one thing. Syracuse is a very respected program in the south. But we come from a league that challenged the mighty ACC as the premiere conference in college basketball. Being a frontrunner in that conference could help eventual acceptance in the ACC, but there is that smoldering anger over the whole which conference is better debate. Still, the respect is there, and is in fact very high. I took a lot of ribbing being a Syracuse fan in ACC country, but throughout the banter, there was always a tone of underlying respect for the Syracuse program, and conversations always ended in the mutual agreement to agree to disagree. A lot of smack talk depending on the outcome of the games.

In the end, it comes down to the one simple fact that is true in almost all aspects of sports. You want true acceptance and true rivalries? Just win baby!

 

[dollarbill44]

First of all, no, that opinion or line of thinking will NEVER change. Its naive to think it would. As stated Maryland was still looked at as an outsider and I believe they competed very well quite often in hoop (even won a title). Secondly, many (not all) southerners do still feel and think the way their ancestors did 150 years ago, say nothing about 50 years ago. SU will nevr be looked at as a rival. At best we will be interlopwers who are masquerading as chanpions of "their" conference. I wouldn't put it past some to keep track of the standing seperately and not even acknowledge success had by the new schools. Lastly, I have met many very intelligent and professional people from the Carolinas and Virginia. Most of them were also yahoos or bumpkins, whichever you prefer. I once attended a dinner with the president of one of my company's largest insurance clients. Epitome of a southern gentleman, very intelligent and even had everyone at the table say grace prior to our meal. He then went on to belittle our different race server and use several unacceptable terms during the course of the meal. It was all I could do not to get up and leave (had I been alone I might've). I guess my point is the past is always just below the surface for many inhabitants of the south. F UNC!

I think it will start to change as the ACC old-timers start to die off. The younger generations (pick an age, I go with people under 50) have grown up with fluctuating conferences. This will take a while to happen fully and the college landscape may well have changed before it does, but assuming the status quo, I'll give it 10 years. The key will be for SU to be competitive in the big sports. Being competitive and having a reason for opponents to hate you is what creates rivalries. That's why UNC v WFU is not a rivalry for UNC - there just isn't the hatred for them. It's why SU-SHU is not a rivalry for SU even though we were both long-time members of the BEC.

I spent 2 years living in Charlotte and working for a very southern (albeit large national chain), "good-ole boy" company. I saw first-hand the whole Carolina ACC sillyness. The Carolina ACCers disdained anyone not from NC. That included GT, UVA, MD, FSU, etc. It is not an attitude that will survive long-term, imo.

 

[baggerbob]

Lets face it since 1980 when the Big East was formed, the only 2 schools in the ACC that have done anything are North Carolina, and Duke. NC St backed into a championship with a great run, and Maryland had a few good years, but the conference year in and out has been North Carolina, Duke. We come in this year, Louisville next year and then the fight begins, the first time that Louisville, Syracuse play for the ACC championship, then the people from North Carolina will decide we might be rivals, and it will happen sooner then later.

 

[CusefanATL]

Spent time yesterday with a very intelligent and accomplished woman who is a serious sports fan. She's a grad of UNC; her husband is a grad of UVA and their son is a student student athlete at Clemson in s non-revenue sport.

She is very unhappy about "the invasion" of the traditional ACC by "all these foreign teams." She said Miami, FSU and BC are still not accepted as "true" ACC schools... and that she's delighted that MD is leaving for the Big 10. She realizes this is all being done in the name of TV dollars, but says that doesn't mean she has to like it.

She says her viewpoint is shared by virtually everyone she knows in the Carolinas. And she says fans of Syracuse (and the other new schools) are delusional if they think the Carolina schools will ever consider them their real rivals.

This woman is very active in a national sports governing body where she has held significant positions, so she is not just some random UNC fan. I was stunned by the vehemence of her position -- which, as I said above, she says is widely shared. I know her fairly well, and I have never heard be so strident about anything.

some people hate and will always hate change.

 

[CusefanATL]

and the funny thing is that FSU was the unquestionable face of the ACC for over 10 years.

hell, it still may be the face of the conference

Have her tell Ga Tech that FSU isnt a rival.