A final thought on Marrone's tenure here...Attendance and $upport-

[Scooch]

we need to stop judging and SU needs to start measuring.

i suspect that people don't want to park at skytop and don't want to walk up the hill. SU only shuttles the people who will park at skytop.

why not have a shuttle from marshall street? people might want the marshall st pregame atmosphere without the walk.

i don't know any of this but if i worked for SU I would

some people think the solution is to build a new stadium on a hill. i think it's cheaper to have a different bus stop but what do i know (for all i know they might do this now)

I'm not really judging, but I do think that SU fans often just look for excuses when they really just don't want to go to games.

I can't work up sympathy for how "hard" it is to park and walk to the Dome when I grew up going to Fenway Park. I mean there is almost no parking there, so you end up parking far away in packed lots with incredibly sketchy dudes 'watching' your car and then have to hoof it a mile to your seats. And then you sat in a dilapitated, tiny ballpark that made you need a chiropractor after 5 innings. But people wanted to go, so they endured it.

 

[Scooch]

if waits are too long, maybe send more buses.

if there are people out there who like M street and don't like the hill, SU might be missing the boat er bus

I think the problem is mostly that people don't like going to SU games. The parking and traffic stuff are just excuses. No one bitches when they're going to see Kenny Chesney at the Fairgrounds or whatever.

 

[sufandu]

An illustration of the rabid fanaticism in the south can be seen in Auburn's attendance this year. In the midst of a 3-8 season, having been shutout by Georgia the week before, winless in the SEC, in their second to last game of the season, they had 74,832 in attendance... against Alabama A&M. Auburn has a population of less than 54,000 and the football program is the little brother of Alabama.

Syracuse, the lone major football program in the state, in a city of over 140,000, while fighting for bowl eligibility, with a chance to share the Big East championship, playing a highly ranked Louisville team, with an exciting offense, draws 40,312.

Even after Auburn proved it sucked, it's fans went to a game against it's own version of Stony Brook.

 

[Bayside44]

I'm not really judging, but I do think that SU fans often just look for excuses when they really just don't want to go to games.

I can't work up sympathy for how "hard" it is to park and walk to the Dome when I grew up going to Fenway Park. I mean there is almost no parking there, so you end up parking far away in packed lots with incredibly sketchy dudes 'watching' your car and then have to hoof it a mile to your seats. And then you sat in a dilapitated, tiny ballpark that made you need a chiropractor after 5 innings. But people wanted to go, so they endured it.

Yeah, and they traded Babe Ruth too. :blah:

Seriously, parking everywhere is pain. And when it isn't a pain, you pay (dearly) for the privledge to park closer to a stadium. When I listen to people in these parts talk about their tickets to the Skins, UVa, UNC, etc, the first question is - where do you park and how much is it setting you back.

 

[rrlbees]

I think the problem is mostly that people don't like going to SU games. The parking and traffic stuff are just excuses. No one bitches when they're going to see Kenny Chesney at the Fairgrounds or whatever.

Many of the people that complain about parking, tailgating etc, do go to the games. The ones who don't compalin, don't because they don't go.

And the Fairgrounds is NOT the Dome area.

 

[Timonen]

An illustration of the rabid fanaticism in the south can be seen in Auburn's attendance this year. In the midst of a 3-8 season, having been shutout by Georgia the week before, winless in the SEC, in their second to last game of the season, they had 74,832 in attendance... against Alabama A&M. Auburn has a population of less than 54,000 and the football program is the little brother of Alabama.

Syracuse, the lone major football program in the state, in a city of over 140,000, while fighting for bowl eligibility, with a chance to share the Big East championship, playing a highly ranked Louisville team, with an exciting offense, draws 40,312.

Even after Auburn proved it sucked, it's fans went to a game against it's own version of Stony Brook.

right, it's clearly a culture thing...but that ain't changing in four years no matter what happens. that's why it doesn't make sense that marrone was dissapointed at fan support

 

[IthacaMatt]

we need to stop judging and SU needs to start measuring.

i suspect that people don't want to park at skytop and don't want to walk up the hill. SU only shuttles the people who will park at skytop.

why not have a shuttle from marshall street? people might want the marshall st pregame atmosphere without the walk.

i don't know any of this but if i worked for SU I would

some people think the solution is to build a new stadium on a hill. i think it's cheaper to have a different bus stop but what do i know (for all i know they might do this now)

Or An actual centro shuttle from downtown and the major malls, I know jake says they already do this but it's not well publicized

 

[IthacaMatt]

right, it's clearly a culture thing...but that ain't changing in four years no matter what happens. that's why it doesn't make sense that marrone was dissapointed at fan support

40000+ is not bad. That's enough for pretty good atmosphere in the dome. It's the 30k crowds and below that suck the life out of the place.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think the problem is mostly that people don't like going to SU games. The parking and traffic stuff are just excuses. No one bitches when they're going to see Kenny Chesney at the Fairgrounds or whatever.

You can actually park at the fair & the bus service is outstanding. That's why they average100,000 per day of the fair

 

[sufandu]

right, it's clearly a culture thing...but that ain't changing in four years no matter what happens. that's why it doesn't make sense that marrone was dissapointed at fan support

Maybe he got sick of fans caring more about who the opponent was than, supporting their home team. That was my point when mentioning Auburn. Penn St, Michigan, and Ohio St. all show up to the games regardless of the opponent and they're not in the south. We hear all the excuses about why locals don't go to the games, and they're just that, excuses. The truth is our fanbase is weak. It's not about what the university isn't doing to make things easier.

 

[Timonen]

Maybe he got sick of fans caring more about who the opponent was than, supporting their home team. That was my point when mentioning Auburn. Penn St, Michigan, and Ohio St. all show up to the games regardless of the opponent and they're not in the south. We hear all the excuses about why locals don't go to the games, and they're just that, excuses. The truth is our fanbase is weak. It's not about what the university isn't doing to make things easier.

i don't mean to debate this, because i agree that our fanbase is weak...but there is still the same % dropoff at SEC schools for the crap games as there is at SU. They just start at 90-100k, so getting 70k+ sounds awesome. their student populations are 30K+ so that also goes a long way. we need to use some of these places as benchmarks, but compete against ourselves and keep getting better.

 

[sufandu]

Or An actual centro shuttle from downtown and the major malls, I know jake says they already do this but it's not well publicized

When I lived in the area and had season tickets, I caught the one from Great Northern. It was really convenient.

 

[OburgOrange]

This isnt the SEC where football on Saturdays are a religion. It absolutely will matter who the opponent is and that is why (per my post above) it will improve next season.

I would love it if football were on Saturdays! These Friday night games are killing me. I have a 2 plus hr drive to get there, it kills. I still manage to make it, but I wonder how many other people in the same shoes as me say, F@ck it, too much bother?

 

[sufandu]

i don't mean to debate this, because i agree that our fanbase is weak...but there is still the same % dropoff at SEC schools for the crap games as there is at SU. They just start at 90-100k, so getting 70k+ sounds awesome. their student populations are 30K+ so that also goes a long way. we need to use some of these places as benchmarks, but compete against ourselves and keep getting better.

Jordan Hare stadium seats 87,451 so it really wasn't that big of a drop off. Auburn's enrollment is 25,000, but attendance has more to do with community support than student attendance. I'm not trying to say we need to become Auburn, just that we make all kinds of excuses. The walk is too far, we have a sucky home schedule, they might not sell beer, etc.

 

[OttoMets]

we need to stop judging and SU needs to start measuring.

i suspect that people don't want to park at skytop and don't want to walk up the hill. SU only shuttles the people who will park at skytop.

why not have a shuttle from marshall street? people might want the marshall st pregame atmosphere without the walk.

i don't know any of this but if i worked for SU I would

some people think the solution is to build a new stadium on a hill. i think it's cheaper to have a different bus stop but what do i know (for all i know they might do this now)

Because virtually anyone would say it's insane to take a shuttle three blocks.

 

[OttoMets]

I'm not really judging, but I do think that SU fans often just look for excuses when they really just don't want to go to games.

I can't work up sympathy for how "hard" it is to park and walk to the Dome when I grew up going to Fenway Park. I mean there is almost no parking there, so you end up parking far away in packed lots with incredibly sketchy dudes 'watching' your car and then have to hoof it a mile to your seats. And then you sat in a dilapitated, tiny ballpark that made you need a chiropractor after 5 innings. But people wanted to go, so they endured it.

People are looking for every reason under the sun to explain people's unwillingness to go to the Dome in the same numbers they did in 1989. Honestly, the suburbanization of Central New York has played as large a role as anything.

A large portion of the fanbase lives 50% farther away than they did years ago, and a great number of them are accustomed to driving right up to Wal-Mart and Wegmans without needing to walk any distance. The idea of walking as transportation is anathema to a large chunk of the middle-aged population.

 

[Scooch]

You can actually park at the fair & the bus service is outstanding. That's why they average100,000 per day of the fair

People love to seize on the one throw-away comment and ignore the main point of a post, don't they?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

When you run a business, it's never the customer's fault that they didn't buy. The product (team, opponent, dome, logistics, cost, experience) needs to be compelling.

Exactly. I've been banging the drum for a long time that you need some style - if football isn't entertaining, if it's not fun, people have a whole bunch of other choices.

We were a really bad choice for the general population for a loooooooong time.

 

[GoSU96]

After the game I want to walk a block to my car, get in and get home. Not wait for a bus, cramped with 100 other people to then get to a lot, wait 20 minutes to get out of a lot and then drive home.

Maybe I am just spoiled.

You can do that, be prepared to get out your check book though.

 

[Scooch]

Exactly. I've been banging the drum for a long time that you need some style - if football isn't entertaining, if it's not fun, people have a whole bunch of other choices.

We were a really bad choice for the general population for a loooooooong time.

The other component of "fun" is the atmosphere and activities around the game. Talk to any fan of a major program in the SEC, B1G, Pac-12, Big 12 or ACC and they'll tell you that its not just the game that's the draw, it's everything around it. These games act as 6-7 holidays each year for these fanbases.

SU fans have simply never embraced that aspect of college football. Even when our attendance was solid, back in the 90s, I recall tailgating in near-empty lots right in the M-Street area, only to see them fill up maybe an hour before kickoff.

People just aren't into it. :noidea:

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The other component of "fun" is the atmosphere and activities around the game. Talk to any fan of a major program in the SEC, B1G, Pac-12, Big 12 or ACC and they'll tell you that its not just the game that's the draw, it's everything around it. These games act as 6-7 holidays each year for these fanbases.

SU fans have simply never embraced that aspect of college football. Even when our attendance was solid, back in the 90s, I recall tailgating in near-empty lots right in the M-Street area, only to see them fill up maybe an hour before kickoff.

People just aren't into it. :noidea:

Definitely something to be said for that, but I'm not sure a football program can control that.

They can control how exciting the on field product is though. You don't even need talent. You can be bad and still play an exciting brand of football.

 

[IthacaMatt]

People love to seize on the one throw-away comment and ignore the main point of a post, don't they?

What? It's more convenient to attend other events in Central New York. Is that controversial to say? If you want to go to a baseball game, you drive up and park and walk in. It's more convenient to attend games at Giants Stadium, or any pro stadium, too. You drive there, you park in a massive parking lot where you tailgate, and then you walk a few hundred yards across a flat parking lot to the game. When you go to most other college campuses, likewise there is easily accessible parking. How many schools have their stadium located in an urban area with almost zero parking? Sure, somebody mentioned that Fenway Park is like that, but the last time I checked, they don't play football at Fenway Park. People rip on Syracuse fans, but you know, this is probably the worst lay out for sporting events (or certainly bottom 10) in the US.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The other component of "fun" is the atmosphere and activities around the game. Talk to any fan of a major program in the SEC, B1G, Pac-12, Big 12 or ACC and they'll tell you that its not just the game that's the draw, it's everything around it. These games act as 6-7 holidays each year for these fanbases.

SU fans have simply never embraced that aspect of college football. Even when our attendance was solid, back in the 90s, I recall tailgating in near-empty lots right in the M-Street area, only to see them fill up maybe an hour before kickoff.

People just aren't into it. :noidea:

And where is all this fun going to take place? Marshall Street has one somewhat legit restaurant (Faegan's), a handful of shitty college bars and some fast food joints (and of course the Varsity, which is a lunch counter / pizza shop). Down in Armory Square, if you want to go to a football game, all the places are closed on Saturday morning. There is no pregame down there, all the places are closed until after the game. You can't tailgate at South Campus, because the time it takes for the shuttle bus is too damn long, and Comstock Ave is a 2 lane street.

The walk from Manley (where there are very few parking spaces remaining after all the expansion and upgrades) is a mile and a quarter - not too bad, but you can't walk that in less than about 15-20 minutes, especially if you are bringing kids with you. And the South Campus parking lots are just too far to consider walking. They're trying to create a fun atmosphere on the Quad before the game, but there's still the parking problem.

I realize this sounds kind of whiny, but you know, other schools are much smarter about how they do these things. They have actual parking lots for their customers, which is where most of the tailgating takes place. Maybe they will take that into account when they finally build a new stadium out on South Campus or near Drumlins.

 

[Bayside44]

What? It's more convenient to attend other events in Central New York. Is that controversial to say? If you want to go to a baseball game, you drive up and park and walk in. It's more convenient to attend games at Giants Stadium, or any pro stadium, too. You drive there, you park in a massive parking lot where you tailgate, and then you walk a few hundred yards across a flat parking lot to the game. When you go to most other college campuses, likewise there is easily accessible parking. How many schools have their stadium located in an urban area with almost zero parking? Sure, somebody mentioned that Fenway Park is like that, but the last time I checked, they don't play football at Fenway Park. People rip on Syracuse fans, but you know, this is probably the worst lay out for sporting events (or certainly bottom 10) in the US.

It's far easier at SU than it is at UVa and UNC. And for that matter, unless you pay a small fortune at FedEx, you might be in an official team lot, but the walk triples at least the stroll from M Street. Rutgers was pretty easy, been too long since I have been at UMD to comment.

 

[sufandu]

How many schools have their stadium located in an urban area with almost zero parking?

I don't know how many, but I can say Tennessee is one of them. They have no problem getting 100,000 to games even when it's perfect boating weather midway through the season.