A final thought on Marrone's tenure here...Attendance and $upport-

[SmilinBob]

To be honest it kind of bugged me that we didn't have a large crowd after we beat WV 49-23. I'm not making excuses for Marrone but after that win I thought we'd be more excited and have more fans in the Dome. Wait the score was 49-23 or was it 38-14, damn I keep getting those 2 ass kickings mixed up.

 

[Chip]

Great post, Jake.

Look, everyone here would love it if CNY was some crazed college football hotbed that sold out the Dome every Saturday whether we were playing Florida State or URI. But that's not the way it is and its never been the way it is.

Marrone started his tenure in front of 48,617 against Minnesota. If nothing else the community turned out to support his inaugural game. Two weeks later we had 40K against Northwestern. Not great, but no worse than lots of late September games that we've played over the years. The '98 team played Rutgers in late September the week after we thumped Michigan and drew all of 42K.

On a Friday night with the team at 4-2 and a good opponent in town we had 45,265. Heck, even after dropping the next two we still had 41K for a Friday night game against USF.

Attendance was down this year, but when you couple a disastrous 5-game slide to end last year with a terrible home schedule that's what you get.

The very first game I ever attended in the Dome was the opener in 1991 against Vanderbilt. We drew THIRTY-SIX THOUSAND for that game, coming off an 8-win bowl-winning season. I've said it for a long, long, time, but it's not like you have to move heaven and earth to get attendance to a better place. We're talking about lifting it about 5K on average per game to get it back to very healthy levels. A good home schedule and a program that people perceive as competitive and fun will probably get us there. I think we're closer than many think.

I think the moral of this story is that no one wants to watch us play Rutgers. And thankfully, we won't have to anymore.

 

[KaiserUEO]

as far as $upport goes. this is an awesome day for Syracuse.

what percentage of his brand spankin shiny new NFL contract is marrone donating to the school??!!!!

10% 15% 20%???!!!!!


or can doogie not find his wallet now either???...

Oh Lord

 

[Millhouse]

2009, 2010, 2011

21 total home games

5 games against BCS teams that were actually watchable. Maybe 6 if you include louisville 2010

Bad = bad opponent or good opponent but bad to watch

That's a low percentage.

Date Opponent Result Good/Bad
9/5/2009 Minnesota L 20-23 Good
9/19/2009 Northwestern W 37-34 Good
9/26/2009 Maine W 41-24 Bad
10/3/2009 South Fla. L 20-34 Bad
10/10/2009 25 West Virginia L 13-34 Bad
10/24/2009 Akron W 28-14 Bad
10/31/2009 8 Cincinnati L 7-28 Bad
11/21/2009 Rutgers W 31-13 Good
9/18/2010 Maine W 38-14 Bad
9/25/2010 Colgate W 42-7 Bad
10/16/2010 Pittsburgh L 14-45 Bad
11/6/2010 Louisville L 20-28 Bad
11/20/2010 Connecticut L 6-23 Bad
11/27/2010 Boston College L 7-16 Bad
9/1/2011 Wake Forest W 36-29 Good
9/10/2011 Rhode Island W 21-14 Bad
9/24/2011 Toledo W 33-30 Bad
10/1/2011 Rutgers L 16-19 Bad
10/21/2011 17 West Virginia W 49-23 Good
11/11/2011 South Fla. L 17-37 Bad
11/26/2011 25 Cincinnati L 13-30 Bad

 

[sufandu]

Maybe...but can you blame the fanbase after the last year or two of Coach P and the GRob era?

Not placing blame, just making a comparison. We can't compare the coach's success when he doesn't get comparable fan support. Tennessee has been down and hasn't been to a bowl game the last two years, but it wouldn't surprise me if they had 90,000 plus for the first game next year. Even when their attendance was down at the end of this year they were getting 60,000. Marrone wasn't disappointed that we didn't sell out every game. He was disappointed that we barely broke 40,000 against a ranked Louisville team when we still had a chance to share the Big East championship. What are realistic attendance expectations for a team that wants to be in the top 25, and was probably pretty close after a bowl win?

 

[Finwad32]

2009, 2010, 2011

21 total home games

5 games against BCS teams that were actually watchable. Maybe 6 if you include louisville 2010

Bad = bad opponent or good opponent but bad to watch

That's a low percentage.

Date Opponent Result Good/Bad
9/5/2009 Minnesota L 20-23 Good
9/19/2009 Northwestern W 37-34 Good
9/26/2009 Maine W 41-24 Bad
10/3/2009 South Fla. L 20-34 Bad
10/10/2009 25 West Virginia L 13-34 Bad
10/24/2009 Akron W 28-14 Bad
10/31/2009 8 Cincinnati L 7-28 Bad
11/21/2009 Rutgers W 31-13 Good
9/18/2010 Maine W 38-14 Bad
9/25/2010 Colgate W 42-7 Bad
10/16/2010 Pittsburgh L 14-45 Bad
11/6/2010 Louisville L 20-28 Bad
11/20/2010 Connecticut L 6-23 Bad
11/27/2010 Boston College L 7-16 Bad
9/1/2011 Wake Forest W 36-29 Good
9/10/2011 Rhode Island W 21-14 Bad
9/24/2011 Toledo W 33-30 Bad
10/1/2011 Rutgers L 16-19 Bad
10/21/2011 17 West Virginia W 49-23 Good
11/11/2011 South Fla. L 17-37 Bad
11/26/2011 25 Cincinnati L 13-30 Bad

Not nitpicking but that Toledo game, minus the XP debacle, was a great game to watch. They almost upset Ohio State that year too. I understand about them being a bad opponent but they were all over ESPN that year bc of their offense. Casual fan wouldn't get juiced for that though.

 

[javadoc]

"should" is you prescribing your values. "is" and "does" matters a whole lot more.

You're right, and Marrone shouldn't have tried to "change the culture" of the program. I mean, he was prescribing his values! He should have paid attention only to the metaphysical aspects of the program and not thought about normatives at all.

The values that Go speaks of are proven to provide the foundation for the most successful programs. If SU fans don't share those values, then their minds should be changed.

 

[Shenexon]

I just put my deposit down on a season ticket as the most tangible way I have of showing my support on the first day of the Shafer era. LGO!!

 

[Rocco]

On the Dome attendance. I understand his point. But he has to take some of the responsibility himself. 4-8, 8-5, 5-7, 8-5 is better than we had…but let’s not kid ourselves, it’s not like he was pumping out 9 or 10 win seasons. There simply wasn’t a long enough susstained winning streak to recapture public confidence.

You also can't come to a gun fight with no bullets. Marrone had a few really good players, but not enough to field competitive enough teams. A few injuries and you're done.

You can't expect his recruiting classes to come in and prove to be heroes as Fresh or Sophs. He knew that too.

If he stuck around, I think the winning seasons would continue based on the program design and the depth within. Hopefully Shafer can continue this.

 

[Millhouse]

the problem with attendance is its low enough people know they can pick and choose and get good seats.. the other issue is that the dome has some many good seats why spend premium money when the end zone seats are great.. people can complain about the dome, but the site lines are so much better than almost any other stadium.. I have no doubt that we have more quality seating than placed with 100K..

couldn't agree more. you're less picky when it's hard to get a ticket. people here pick and choose. it's all about the ratio of total fans to the total seats, not about the individual people. schools with stadiums twice as big have way more than twice the number of fans. creates more sellouts. as the percentage of capacity goes up, it becomes that much more fun for the marginal fan. people go to crowded bars because the bars crowded. some things are better with a crowd.

 

[Timonen]

You're right, and Marrone shouldn't have tried to "change the culture" of the program. I mean, he was prescribing his values! He should have paid attention only to the metaphysical aspects of the program and not thought about normatives at all.

The values that Go speaks of are proven to provide the foundation for the most successful programs. If SU fans don't share those values, then their minds should be changed.

i can just as easily say that successful programs are the foundation of the values that Go speaks of.

changing the culture is one aspect that impacts. this is just basic marketing. you can't blame the market. you have to change the market or change the product. marrone's point shouldn't have been that he was let down by the support (and i know that's paraphrasing). it should have been "i wish we could have made it happen more quickly, but we didn't."

 

[OrangeAl]

Holy moley! We go 10-37 for four years and now we're telling our opponents they aren't good enough for us to come and watch? I love watching us beat Rutgers. In fact, I'll miss the Big East opponents.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I disagree. The Syracuse fanbase has more of a "prove it to me before I'll support you" attitude than many of the schools we're trying to compete with. He wasn't asking to fill a 100,000 seat stadium he was hoping to get a consistent 40,000.

I think with a better schedule and a strong start to next season, we should see a pretty good increase in attendance. You don't win fans back overnight. And let's face it, going to the Dome is a pain in the ass for most fans. Parking around Marshall St. now costs $20 a game. And you still have to walk up that damn hill.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm not sure how you can honestly think this. Yes, for some of us diehard fans, the opponent shouldn't matter. I go to see the team regardless of who they are playing, because I live, die, and bleed orange.

However, you can't be so naive as to believe that the average fan will not care about who the opponent is. You need look no further than our consitently top-10 basketball team, which can see almost a 100% attendance difference between someone like Canisius or someone like Georgetown/Villanova. Let's be realistic here.

Totally agree. It's the big games that make the lasting memories. Beating ND in the Dome is something people will remember for a lifetime, not beating Buffalo or Stony Brook. I hear the same argument about the basketball team all the time. Once we move to the ACC, having that North Carolina, Duke or Georgetown or St. John's game OOC is something that is appealing to the general, non-hardcore fan.

 

[rrlbees]

I believe we were 8-12 vs BCS teams at the Dome. That doesn't bring people back.

 

[Scooch]

I think with a better schedule and a strong start to next season, we should see a pretty good increase in attendance. You don't win fans back overnight. And let's face it, going to the Dome is a pain in the ass for most fans. Parking around Marshall St. now costs $20 a game. And you still have to walk up that damn hill.

Everyone reading that in Boston, CT, New York, NJ and DC just laughed at how quaint it sounds.

Last time I was at Gillette Stadium for a Pats game the team-owned lots were $40. Private lots were $50.

I know, CNY is different from metro Boston. But still.

 

[Millhouse]

Everyone reading that in Boston, CT, New York, NJ and DC just laughed at how quaint it sounds.

Last time I was at Gillette Stadium for a Pats game the team-owned lots were $40. Private lots were $50.

I know, CNY is different from metro Boston. But still.

we need to stop judging and SU needs to start measuring.

i suspect that people don't want to park at skytop and don't want to walk up the hill. SU only shuttles the people who will park at skytop.

why not have a shuttle from marshall street? people might want the marshall st pregame atmosphere without the walk.

i don't know any of this but if i worked for SU I would

some people think the solution is to build a new stadium on a hill. i think it's cheaper to have a different bus stop but what do i know (for all i know they might do this now)

 

[Marsh01]

Everyone reading that in Boston, CT, New York, NJ and DC just laughed at how quaint it sounds.

Last time I was at Gillette Stadium for a Pats game the team-owned lots were $40. Private lots were $50.

I know, CNY is different from metro Boston. But still.

Am I the only one left who actually has a parking pass to a lot?

 

[Marsh01]

we need to stop judging and SU needs to start measuring.

i suspect that people don't want to park at skytop and don't want to walk up the hill. SU only shuttles the people who will park at skytop.

why not have a shuttle from marshall street? people might want the marshall st pregame atmosphere without the walk.

i don't know any of this but if i worked for SU I would

some people think the solution is to build a new stadium on a hill. i think it's cheaper to have a different bus stop but what do i know (for all i know they might do this now)

I'd shoot myself if I had to take a shuttle. The Manley shuttle is a nightmare and I cant even fathom having to wait for a damn bus to take me to Marshall St. after the game.

No thank you.

 

[sutomcat]

as far as $upport goes. this is an awesome day for Syracuse.

what percentage of his brand spankin shiny new NFL contract is marrone donating to the school??!!!!

10% 15% 20%???!!!!!


or can doogie not find his wallet now either???...

Oh Lord

I was told DM made a substantial donation to the football program each year he was here. Could be wrong but that was what I was told...

 

[Millhouse]

I'd shoot myself if I had to take a shuttle. The Manley shuttle is a nightmare and I cant even fathom having to wait for a damn bus to take me to Marshall St. after the game.

No thank you.

if waits are too long, maybe send more buses.

if there are people out there who like M street and don't like the hill, SU might be missing the boat er bus

 

[Marsh01]

if waits are too long, maybe send more buses.

if there are people out there who like M street and don't like the hill, SU might be missing the boat er bus

After the game I want to walk a block to my car, get in and get home. Not wait for a bus, cramped with 100 other people to then get to a lot, wait 20 minutes to get out of a lot and then drive home.

Maybe I am just spoiled.

 

[Millhouse]

After the game I want to walk a block to my car, get in and get home. Not wait for a bus, cramped with 100 other people to then get to a lot, wait 20 minutes to get out of a lot and then drive home.

Maybe I am just spoiled.

Maybe you have good knees. I'm not taking the shuttle either. I like the exercise. People are all different.

 

[Marsh01]

Maybe you have good knees. I'm not taking the shuttle either. I like the exercise. People are all different.

True dat. Maybe if they served PBR on the shuttle...

 

[orangenirvana]

In the end, I just don't think the whole attendance and support thing were factors in him leaving.

He's an NFL coach, first and foremost. That's how he sees himself, imo. He ultimately got to coach at his alma mater and help rebuild it and put it in great, stable position going forward. He was then given an opportunity to be head honcho of an NFL team.

A win-win.

Attendance and support were totally irrelevant factors in the end, imo.