a Question for the recruiting peeps

[JrodCuse]

I keep seeing people mention that handlers and $$$ is involved for these upper teir kids. What % of kids, as a whole, are getting some kind of benefits for playing D1 high-level basketball? Is it 10%? 50%? 80%? Very curious about this as we heard about Noel and in football we heard about it with Cam Newton.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I keep seeing people mention that handlers and $$$ is involved for these upper teir kids. What % of kids, as a whole, are getting some kind of benefits for playing D1 high-level basketball? Is it 10%? 50%? 80%? Very curious about this as we heard about Noel and in football we heard about it with Cam Newton.

you pay to get access to the kid. what the kid gets, IDK.

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[JrodCuse]

Very interesting. So it's a bidding war just to get the handler or AAU coach or whoever to push the kid towards your school? I find this stuff fascinating. It's almost like the way MLB does the silent auction for japanese players it sounds. Are there ever situations where multiple schools will "pay" for the handler to push them and then they go to school X, or is it pretty much the winning school is the only one paying anything?

 

[edowd26]

Very interesting. So it's a bidding war just to get the handler or AAU coach or whoever to push the kid towards your school? I find this stuff fascinating. It's almost like the way MLB does the silent auction for japanese players it sounds. Are there ever situations where multiple schools will "pay" for the handler to push them and then they go to school X, or is it pretty much the winning school is the only one paying anything?

Something like that happened for John wall I thunk. I think Baylor hired his coah (handler) and he still went to UK.

 

[JrodCuse]

So essentially this happens at every school (including us), and the NCAA just turns a blind eye because whats good for the goose is good for the gander?

 

[orangejunkie]

Wasn't it about 10-15 years ago that Boeheim was illegally using a handler in NYC. I think they got some NCAA sanctions. Lots of complaints about Kentucky and Calipari but SU has had it's issues.

 

[orangefog]

Wasn't it about 10-15 years ago that Boeheim was illegally using a handler in NYC. I think they got some NCAA sanctions. Lots of complaints about Kentucky and Calipari but SU has had it's issues.

I don't remember this, I can't wait to hear the story, if anyone has this info.

 

[JrodCuse]

I do remember we got hit with sanctions in the mid to late 90's? I think that caused us to have some weaker classes during the late 90's? I could be off on my years.

 

[orangefog]

I do remember we got hit with sanctions in the mid to late 90's? I think that caused us to have some weaker classes during the late 90's? I could be off on my years.

Yes, but those had nothing to do with "handlers", from what I understand.

 

[JrodCuse]

Ahh the specifics I don't know. Back then I was a teenager chasing after some tail. I guess not much has changed actually besides my age haha.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I don't remember this, I can't wait to hear the story, if anyone has this info.

Rob Johnson and Conrad McRae.

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[orangefog]

Rob Johnson and Conrad McRae.

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Rob Johnson was a handler for Conrad? I didn't know that. Did we get in trouble with that situation?

 

[CU44SE]

I keep seeing people mention that handlers and $$$ is involved for these upper teir kids. What % of kids, as a whole, are getting some kind of benefits for playing D1 high-level basketball? Is it 10%? 50%? 80%? Very curious about this as we heard about Noel and in football we heard about it with Cam Newton.

Well see, it all started when Pete Bell got sick of losing. So he turned to Happy to help turn it around.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Rob Johnson was a handler for Conrad? I didn't know that. Did we get in trouble with that situation?

The allegations surfaced in the early 90's but dated back to the mid-80's. McRae was involved, but there were others taking cars, hotel stays and to a lesser extent money. Boeheim denied Rob Johnson being anything more than a big supporter of the program, but the NCAA and Post-Standard came to a different conclusion. The school got slapped with a scholarship reduction for two seasons and a one-year postseason ban. Most thought it was a relatively light punishment, but it could have been much worse had SU not launched an internal investigation.

 

[obliterata]

The book "Raw Recruits" started it all. The Post-Standard then ran a series of articles called "Out Of Bounds" detailing SU's transgressions. Rob Johnson was just one part of it, there was more.

Through the years I generally never badmouthed other coaches/programs for off the court stuff like many others have done and still do. I mean, when the school you root for breaks and bends the rules, why bother.

 

[Noexcuse]

It was pretty much small potatoes compared to what you hear is going on today. SU got jobbed more for under the table benefits the players received after they got here than for what happened to get them here. And what I am talking about is $50 bills in Christmas cards from Bill Rapp, meals at Grimaldi's and free shoes at Rochester shoes. There were also allegations that Boeheim spoke to professors about grades to keep certain players eligible. Btw, if you ever get a chance, read Dave Meggysey's book Out of Their League sometime to see what types of benefits the football players were getting during the 1960's when Schwarztwalder was coach. It was the same small potatoes type of stuff.

 

[orangefog]

It was pretty much small potatoes compared to what you hear is going on today. SU got jobbed more for under the table benefits the players received after they got here than for what happened to get them here. And what I am talking about is $50 bills in Christmas cards from Bill Rapp, meals at Grimaldi's and free shoes at Rochester shoes. There were also allegations that Boeheim spoke to professors about grades to keep certain players eligible. Btw, if you ever get a chance, read Dave Meggysey's book Out of Their League sometime to see what types of benefits the football players were getting during the 1960's when Schwarztwalder was coach. It was the same small potatoes type of stuff.

That is the stuff I had always heard, not so much of the recruiting violations.

 

[armory]

Something like that happened for John wall I thunk. I think Baylor hired his coah (handler) and he still went to UK.

I heard that John Wall was leaning Baylor, then his handler got basically bought out by Calipari, and to make up for it that handler promised a handful of recruits to Baylor... thus Baylor's recent success.

 

[edowd26]

I heard that John Wall was leaning Baylor, then his handler got basically bought out by Calipari, and to make up for it that handler promised a handful of recruits to Baylor... thus Baylor's recent success.

Yes, thats right. Duece bello and Quincy miller.

 

[Noexcuse]

I heard that John Wall was leaning Baylor, then his handler got basically bought out by Calipari, and to make up for it that handler promised a handful of recruits to Baylor... thus Baylor's recent success.

Handlers need to maintain their integrety.

 

[edowd26]

Handlers need to maintain their integrety.

If they didnt they wouldnt get paid.

 

[Noexcuse]

If they didnt they wouldnt get paid.

Well they could always revert back to their previous jobs as used car salesmen.

 

[orangefog]

Handlers need to maintain their integrety.

You can imagine the conversations taking place between the handlers and coaches, treating the kids like commodities. "Scottie, you're my man, you know that, but Wall is just too big and Cal wants him. What was I supposed to do, he is one of my best customers, but YOU, YOU are my guy, you know that pal. Tell you what, I will get you two next year. How about a top ten and a top forty? Come on, don't cry...it's business. You're doing good. Ok, chin up, we'll get some ice cream, rocky road?"

 

[edowd26]

Well they could always revert back to their previous jobs as used car salesmen.

No way exploiting kids is easier and more lucrative.

 

[edowd26]

You can imagine the conversations taking place between the handlers and coaches, treating the kids like commodities. "Scottie, you're my man, you know that, but Wall is just too big and Cal wants him. What was I supposed to do, he is one of my best customers, but YOU, YOU are my guy, you know that pal. Tell you what, I will get you two next year. How about a top ten and a top forty? Come on, don't cry...it's business. You're doing good. Ok, chin up, we'll get some ice cream, rocky road?"

I heard cookies and cream.