A thought on the back court next year.

[chugg21]

most were in the 1st half of the season. my point was he got better as the season went on. the numbers say so.

Don't think any one can really disagree but open up that tourney sample of the stats to include the ACC tourney too and that number gets a lot higher.

 

[rrlbees]

Don't think any one can really disagree but open up that tourney sample of the stats to include the ACC tourney too and that number gets a lot higher.

you're not a trends guy are you? even at that, adding those games for all post season puts it at 3.3 for those 6 games. pretty typical for a PG playing as many minutes.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't think of myself as a Frank hater but I am far from a Frank believer. I will admit that he had some shining moments last year but I also don't believe he is our answer at point and makes too many mental mistakes. His lack of assists is problematic in my view and we have some solid scores on OB, MD and Tyus. In my opinion Franks needs to average 5 assists a game with fewer than 2 turnovers and also average 14 points a game for me to be a believer. I agree with some posts that Carey's D will get him minutes if he is good at it.

I think he’s a pretty good passer. The lack of assists has more to do with how poor the team was at shooting, IMO.

His handle when pressured by a good defender is his biggest weakness to me. He can be pressured into turnovers or picking up his dribble too easily. Hopefully he improves at that and also Carey can handle that type of defense and Howard can come out or go off the ball more next year.

 

[rrlbees]

I think he’s a pretty good passer. The lack of assists has more to do with how poor the team was at shooting, IMO.

His handle when pressured by a good defender is his biggest weakness to me. He can be pressured into turnovers or picking up his dribble too easily. Hopefully he improves at that and also Carey can handle that type of defense and Howard can come out or go off the ball more next year.

there was the one game with those 3 sideline turnovers but other than that, i'd bet most of his turnovers were the passing variety vs getting pressured and turning the ball over. there have been posters who claimed he gets his pocket picked too much. I bet there were no more than a few of those all season.

 

[pfister1]

Frank isn't going to have that unlimited leash he had last year where he could pile up 4 turnovers in 5 mins and play though it. He's going to be sitting next to JB getting an earful and hopefully he's mature enough at this point to take it the right way and not crumble.

Frank will be a senior, I don’t expect that he will have many stretches of 4 turnovers in 5 minutes this season. Guys improve year to year. Frank isn’t likely to improve by developing a skill he hasn’t shown to date. But one of the biggest ways that older guys improve is by playing smarter and more consistently.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Less is more with Frank. Others can help take the ballhandling load off of his shoulders. I think just as many turnovers came vs ball pressure as there were passes either his or others’ fault. Shot clock violations, getting trapped and/or not being able to turn the corner and discombulating the offense were a result of Frank often as well. Some things just don’t show up in the stat sheet.

Distribute, handle the ball less, and be the recipient for some threes. I’m hoping this will be how Frank is deployed.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Raise your hand if you like iso ball. With the addition of Hughes and Buddy and the emergence and improvement of the returnees our offense should be more team oriented. I will with-hold judgment on Carey until I see if he can make others around him better. Can he dish? Tyrus can play iso ball as good as anyone and he can do it all day long. What can Carey do that is different?

 

[StPeteOrang]

there was the one game with those 3 sideline turnovers but other than that, i'd bet most of his turnovers were the passing variety vs getting pressured and turning the ball over. there have been posters who claimed he gets his pocket picked too much. I bet there were no more than a few of those all season.

Also i think he had to force a lot of passes due to our lack of offense and him putting people in position to score, chukwu prob took away at least an assist per game from him. He threw a lot of drop off/lob passes that didn't work because our center isn't very coordinated and has stone hands. That being said i won't excuse him totally, he does need to cut down on turnovers and i think he will, He has done nothing but improve and i don't see why he won't improve even more with another offseason of learning and maturing.

 

[rrlbees]

Less is more with Frank. Others can help take the ballhandling load off of his shoulders. I think just as many turnovers came vs ball pressure as there were passes either his or others’ fault. Shot clock violations, getting trapped and/or not being able to turn the corner and discombulating the offense were a result of Frank often as well. Some things just don’t show up in the stat sheet.

Distribute, handle the ball less, and be the recipient for some threes. I’m hoping this will be how Frank is deployed.

Lots of made up stuff in there.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Lots of made up stuff in there.

Suuure...same with you then. My post is more than fair. Let the people speak then. Post some polls.

 

[rrlbees]

Suuure...same with you then. My post is more than fair. Let the people speak then. Post some polls.

ball pressure caused very few turnovers. not close to as many as passes. shot clock violations were on frank? never anyone else? discombobulating the offense? what does that even mean?

 

[SUFan44]

Not trying to steal the thread but to add to the backcourt thought...

If Frank & Tyus get 32-34 minutes per game, Carey picks up the rest and Hughes is primarily a 3 that will sub in for Dolezaj & Brissett... where does that leave Buddy?

Again, circumstances will play out throughout the season and injuries happen and could factor in as well, but I just don't see how Buddy plays much of a role this year.

 

[rrlbees]

Not trying to steal the thread but to add to the backcourt thought...

If Frank & Tyus get 32-34 minutes per game, Carey picks up the rest and Hughes is primarily a 3 that will sub in for Dolezaj & Brissett... where does that leave Buddy?

Again, circumstances will play out throughout the season and injuries happen and could factor in as well, but I just don't see how Buddy plays much of a role this year.

I want Buddy to be very successful. I've watched him play since he was 7 years old and have probably seen him play more than most if not all here. But with the experience of Tyus and Frank in the backcourt and a top 50 recruit in Carey, I just don't see where the minutes will come from for him this year. I guess a few spot minutes here and there when we face a zone and others aren't hitting is possible.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I've got Carey at 15mpg during the real schedule.

I’m right there. Especially if Frank is struggling with turnovers. I was thinking Carey is like sophomore Waiters and Franks is Scoop.

 

[cuseinseattle]

But Bees, his name is Frank and that's all some people care to know. Don't confuse them with facts.

I will admit when we lost to Duke I thought he turned it over at least 7 times throwing alley oops from half court to Chukwu but it turns out only 3 turnovers.

 

[Oakland]

It has been mentioned numerous times; MCW had very low shooting %s on 2s, 3s, and FTs - that is why he didn't play much as a frosh - he wasn't good.

MCW was a burger boy and got about 15 DNP’s. Waiters was in and out of the rotation himself. They were both higher rated.

 

[two3zone]

It has been mentioned numerous times; MCW had very low shooting %s on 2s, 3s, and FTs - that is why he didn't play much as a frosh - he wasn't good.

His percentages were fine as a freshman. We had an amazing team with a top 5 draft pick coming off the bench, that’s why he didn’t play.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

All minutes will have to be earned.

Hughes still has 3 years of eligibility and Boehim and Carey 4 of course. Its not a big deal if all three or more likely 2/3 play less than they are expecting. See 2012 and MCW.

 

[OttoMets]

It has been mentioned numerous times; MCW had very low shooting %s on 2s, 3s, and FTs - that is why he didn't play much as a frosh - he wasn't good.

Most of his DNPs came after he threw a tantrum for getting yelled at in the UConn game when he turned his head and let a fast break fly by him. More PT was a possibility before that point, but the staff thought his maturity was a problem.

 

[Sherman20]

Not trying to steal the thread but to add to the backcourt thought...

If Frank & Tyus get 32-34 minutes per game, Carey picks up the rest and Hughes is primarily a 3 that will sub in for Dolezaj & Brissett... where does that leave Buddy?

Again, circumstances will play out throughout the season and injuries happen and could factor in as well, but I just don't see how Buddy plays much of a role this year.

Which is why Buddy will, and should, redshirt. It makes no sense to waste a year for him when we’re so deep in the backcourt and have depth and experience at both spots. There’s just not enough minutes to go around for Buddy to see much action. With Frank, Tyus, Carey and Hughes (plus Washington), that’s an insane amount of depth already.

And Tyus, Frank, Carey, Oshae and Hughes can all shoot the ball (not as well as Buddy) but all the returnees numbers should improve big time. Tyus especially. And Buddy can spend the season getting stronger, working on his skill development, and acclimating to our offense and defense.

Redshirting Buddy will help us build depth for future seasons. I love how our backcourt is setting up for down the road. Even though Tyus and Frank will be gone, a 2019-20 backcourt of Carey, Hughes, Buddy, H Washington and Goodine will be NICE. We’re stacked at the guard spots for several years.

 

[SUFan44]

Which is why Buddy will, and should, redshirt. It makes no sense to waste a year for him when we’re so deep in the backcourt and have depth and experience at both spots. There’s just not enough minutes to go around for Buddy to see much action. With Frank, Tyus, Carey and Hughes (plus Washington), that’s an insane amount of depth already.

And Tyus, Frank, Carey, Oshae and Hughes can all shoot the ball (not as well as Buddy) but all the returnees numbers should improve big time. Tyus especially. And Buddy can spend the season getting stronger, working on his skill development, and acclimating to our offense and defense.

Redshirting Buddy will help us build depth for future seasons. I love how our backcourt is setting up for down the road. Even though Tyus and Frank will be gone, a 2019-20 backcourt of Carey, Hughes, Buddy, H Washington and Goodine will be NICE. We’re stacked at the guard spots for several years.

I'm with you 100%. However, to play devil's advocate (to myself)...

Deciding to redshirt a player sometimes has a different effect than you might think. Depends on the person, of course, but sometimes a player that already knows they are redshirting disengages just a bit and while working hard, may not be 100% engaged in team meetings, game planning, etc.

Then, what happens if Washington isn't 100% recovered from his knee injury and you have one of our three main guards in the rotation (Howard, Battle, Carey) go down with an injury for a critical period of time. Then you're left with two of the above, plus Hughes as a swing guy. Hughes is already the main backup for Dolezaj and Brissett at this point, and now he's going to be the main guard backup too. That's a lot to ask.

For these reasons, I don't think the coaching staff will redshirt Buddy. If he's game ready and engaged 100%, it will not only help if we have an injury but also help next year's team when he'll need to play more.

In a perfect world, Carey, Tyus & Frank all stay 100% healthy and Buddy doesn't play much outside of the Colgate's and Cornell's of the world. But I don't think coaches like that risk much.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think everyone is seriously underrating Carey, he’s a stud!

Everyone is a stud in hs. That's why we recruit them. Let's see them actually play in an ACC game before we make the final call on what he is or isn't.

 

[FrancoPizza]

there was the one game with those 3 sideline turnovers but other than that, i'd bet most of his turnovers were the passing variety vs getting pressured and turning the ball over. there have been posters who claimed he gets his pocket picked too much. I bet there were no more than a few of those all season.

Turnovers don't tell the whole story. The PG needs to initiate the offense effectively, not merely avoid turning it over. It almost sounds like some fans want to award a medal for just getting the ball across halfcourt. Frank isn't comfortable against pressure defenses. I think most can agree with that statement. I just hope JB gives Carey real opportunities to steal some minutes if he can prove more effective in those situations.

 

[rrlbees]

Turnovers don't tell the whole story. The PG needs to initiate the offense effectively, not merely avoid turning it over. It almost sounds like some fans want to award a medal for just getting the ball across halfcourt. Frank isn't comfortable against pressure defenses. I think most can agree with that statement. I just hope JB gives Carey real opportunities to steal some minutes if he can prove more effective in those situations.

There’s not a lot of initiating when the coach wants an iso offense. And I have no problem with him initiating any kind of offense. He has great vision, sees the court very well and is a good passer, although he can be a high risk/high reward passer. You could tell his freshman year he had those qualities. If we had guys last year who could finish and shoot more consistently from outside, he would have been one of the leading assist guys in the country.

 

[justgold315]

Less is more with Frank. Others can help take the ballhandling load off of his shoulders. I think just as many turnovers came vs ball pressure as there were passes either his or others’ fault. Shot clock violations, getting trapped and/or not being able to turn the corner and discombulating the offense were a result of Frank often as well. Some things just don’t show up in the stat sheet.

Distribute, handle the ball less, and be the recipient for some threes. I’m hoping this will be how Frank is deployed.

I agree. I think some of Frank's best spurts were when Washington was handling point. The ball movement was better. Frank took some good shots and got assists with an extra pass. If the ballhandling duties are shared, I think both Frank and Battle will do better (better shots, less turnovers, less shot clock violations, etc.)