ACC loses again... but the league is strong

[Chip]

Miss the old Big East hoops from the 80s and 90s? Or the football league from the 90s? Or both?

Because I enjoyed both of them too. And miss both of them as well.

But when they died after 2004, I moved on. So I hope for the best for my new league.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Of course the ACC is more stable - they (we) are the ones stealing from the Big East! What other brilliant moves have they made in the last ten years other than to rob five teams from the Big East?

True dat! And even though the ACC made brilliant moves killing BE football, to it's credit the BE reacted and made some great moves replacing the ACC as the dominant basketball conference. The ACC eventually responds taking Pitt and SU which certainly helps ACC basketball.

 

[SU2NASA]

Of course the ACC is more stable - they (we) are the ones stealing from the Big East! What other brilliant moves have they made in the last ten years other than to rob five teams from the Big East?

And what brilliant moves has the Big East made to put itself in such a wonderful position right now?

 

[OrangeAl]

And what brilliant moves has the Big East made to put itself in such a wonderful position right now?

The Big East actually did some very constructive things for college football. They helped nurture two programs - UConn and SFU - who have become superior to SU over the past five years.
So,
Big East = program builder strategy
ACC = program raider strategy

 

[Moontan]

The Big East actually did some very constructive things for college football. They helped nurture two programs - UConn and SFU - who have become superior to SU over the past five years.
So,
Big East = program builder strategy
ACC = program raider strategy

While the ACC's methods (poaching) might not be the most respectful, they had a plan and executed it (with some admitted fumbling in the early rounds).

As we all know the NBE's actions were too limited and too late. Going to 9 instead of 12, waiting 'til past midnight to finally go to 12, rejecting the ESPN contract extension and not recognizing the needs of its football playing members were all either due to insufficient leadership or the fact that the needs of its members were too divergent (or they just couldn't get along - grew apart). All of that is what forced the remaining football brand names to have to look for greener pastures.

The blow is softened a bit, as mentioned by JAB, that the Big East that Syracuse is leaving is not the same as the Big East that we knew.

 

[SU2NASA]

The Big East actually did some very constructive things for college football. They helped nurture two programs - UConn and SFU - who have become superior to SU over the past five years.
So,
Big East = program builder strategy
ACC = program raider strategy

You are correct that they built those programs, neither of which have been able to save the Big East as a stable conference.

 

[Chip]

The Big East actually did some very constructive things for college football. They helped nurture two programs - UConn and SFU - who have become superior to SU over the past five years.
So,
Big East = program builder strategy
ACC = program raider strategy

You say this like each conference had a strategy and executed it. As if the Big East wouldn't have preferred to raid up, instead of raiding down (as they continue to do).

ACC destroys Big East. Big East destroys CUSA and MWC. But that's ok because it's self defense I guess. And because they allowed a 1AA program instant access to a BCS conference while so many schools who had long running 1A programs were left out. So giving and wonderful for the sport.

 

[OrangeAl]

You say this like each conference had a strategy and executed it. As if the Big East wouldn't have preferred to raid up, instead of raiding down (as they continue to do).

Actually I say it in hindsight. The Big East got into the raiding business only after they were damaged by the ACC raid.

 

[Scooch]

Actually I say it in hindsight. The Big East got into the raiding business only after they were damaged by the ACC raid.

The Atlantic 10 says hi!

 

[OrangeAl]

The Atlantic 10 says hi!

Well sure, like England says hi to us. But birthing is a tough process!

 

[Scooch]

Well sure, like England says hi to us. But birthing is a tough process!

Big East raided the A-10 in 1995.

 

[Fjoinkay]

In football matters the BE executives have consistently been at least one step behind the ACC executives.

Another problem for BE football, which is almost as big as the ACC poaching, is the coaching abandonment. This could in part be related to the poaching, but not completely. Over the past 7 or 8 years every time a BE program rose the coach left for a job in the B1G or the SEC or ND: Dantonio, Petrino, Richrod, Kelly and then even Edsall. Oddly, I don't recall any ACC coaches leaving the ACC. The last coach I can think of was Mack Brown leaving UNC to coach at Texas. Is that because no ACC program has been on the rise the past decade?

 

[OrangeAl]

Big East raided the A-10 in 1995.

C'mon. Rutgers and WVU joined in 1991 as charter members of football conference. Yes, they left the A-10 1n 1995 when they became all-sports members of the Big East. Not quite the same as the ACC raids of the Big East, which were lateral moves for the defectors.

 

[Cusefan95]

Not quite the same as the ACC raids of the Big East, which were lateral moves for the defectors.

The only people that consider those lateral moves are currently employed by the Big East, and you. Quit trying to compare win-loss records and look at revenues.

 

[OrangeAl]

The only people that consider those lateral moves are currently employed by the Big East, and you. Quit trying to compare win-loss records and look at revenues.

Lateral moves as in from one all sports conference to another. In 1995 WVU and Rutgers moved from a non-football conference to an all sports conference, so it was an upward move.

 

[Cusefan95]

Lateral moves as in from one all sports conference to another. In 1995 WVU and Rutgers moved from a non-football conference to an all sports conference, so it was an upward move.

You may want to let SMU, Houston, Boise State, etc know that they are downgrading by going to a one-sport league.

 

[OrangeAl]

You may want to let SMU, Houston, Boise State, etc know that they are downgrading by going to a one-sport league.

That's their problem. We're not part of the Big East brain-trust anymore.

 

[Cusefan95]

That's their problem. We're not part of the Big East brain-trust anymore.

Your position that any team switching from one league to another - like, say, Florida State going from the ACC to SEC - is only a lateral move in any meaningful sense of the word is not well thought out.

The Big East failed to plan for the future, failed to meet the needs of their member institutions, and still fail to understand that league management did not live up to its responsibilities which caused the current situation by enabling the ACC to repeatedly raid the conference. As much as they might want to deny it, ultimate responsibility for the Big East demise lies in Providence...not with the ACC. Creating phony criteria to pretend that the Big East was a peer to the ACC does not make it so.

 

[Scooch]

C'mon. Rutgers and WVU joined in 1991 as charter members of football conference. Yes, they left the A-10 1n 1995 when they became all-sports members of the Big East. Not quite the same as the ACC raids of the Big East, which were lateral moves for the defectors.

My point was simply that the BE made a choice to add members and that choice harmed another league. The BE wasn't acting out of survival in the 90s when it added those schools for all sports, it was acting out of self-interest.

Now that's fine, I have zero problem with that. But it's been remarkably disingenuous to hear the BE's complaints about "raiding" when they made similar self-interested choices in the past.

 

[OrangeAl]

The Big East failed to plan for the future, failed to meet the needs of their member institutions, and still fail to understand that league management did not live up to its responsibilities which caused the current situation by enabling the ACC to repeatedly raid the conference. As much as they might want to deny it, ultimate responsibility for the Big East demise lies in Providence...not with the ACC. Creating phony criteria to pretend that the Big East was a peer to the ACC does not make it so.

No argument that the Big East failed to plan well, starting with blocking Penn State back in the eighties. No argument that the little basketball schools were interfering with the best interests of the football schools. The whole demise of the Big East football conference is tragic - especially for those who love the idea of a strong northeastern football conference.
None of that changes the fact that the ACC strategy was simply to raid another D1 all sports conference - twice! They get no credit for creativity or adding to the neighborhood of D1 collegiate football. It was just an opportunistic power grab.