ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[djorange1989]

The ACC is vastly superior to the Big 12 in terms of football product and football powers, plus likeminded highly competitive academic institutions. There’s no contest there. Remember it’s college presidents that make these decisions. Why would any of these schools choose the Big 12? What’s the appeal?

Also, the PAC schools would give the ACC Network valuable product for Pacific time zone TVs and for the 11pm hour during basketball season, etc.

The appeal is the fact that the Big 12 will get another crack at a contract before the ACC gets one and the ACC is 100% going to blow up when 2036 gets here. I am not knocking the ACC, it is still a really solid conference, but the problem it has that the Big 12 doesn’t have now that Oklahoma and Texas are leaving is that there are haves and have nots in the ACC, by a wide margin, and the haves want out.

 

[Cusefan69]

The only question related to ACC expansion that really matters is which teams drive additional dollars and would adding certain teams drive enough value that perhaps ESPN and ACC brass could/would be open to say an Apple or Amazon throwing their dollars in for an inventory package to help uplift overall value? Ok that's two questions

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Washington Oregon Stanford Cal

If we took the top 6 PAC schools then that is enough for the non rev sports to minimize scheduling cross country. For BBall we would have 3 trips a year. For FB it would be 1 trip most years, occasionally 0 trips.

Add Arizona and ASU to kcsu's list and have a mini-conference out west with a few crossovers from the eastern schools. Minimizes costs for everybody and maximizes content across timezones with no real stinkers added.

 

[djorange1989]

The only question related to ACC expansion that really matters is which teams drive additional dollars and would adding certain teams drive enough value that perhaps ESPN and ACC brass could/would be open to say an Apple or Amazon throwing their dollars in for an inventory package to help uplift overall value? Ok that's two questions

Feels like only Washington and Oregon would move the needle, I think all else, minus Notre Dame obviously, would be more for PR/appearance, like we are expanding and strong!

 

[CousCuse]

If Arizona goes to the Big 12, hard to see why ASU, Utah, Oregon and UW wouldn't come to the conclusion that the Big 12 would be best to park their programs for at least next decade. If that were to happen, the Big 12 is a serious conference in basketball and football.

 

[Sherman20]

The appeal is the fact that the Big 12 will get another crack at a contract before the ACC gets one and the ACC is 100% going to blow up when 2036 gets here. I am not knocking the ACC, it is still a really solid conference, but the problem it has that the Big 12 doesn’t have now that Oklahoma and Texas are leaving is that there are haves and have nots in the ACC, by a wide margin, and the haves want out.

If the ACC adds teams, we get a contract look-in with ESPN and a chance to up the payouts. If we add big draws like Washington, Oregon, Stanford and ASU or Arizona, that will surely increase the TV payouts.

 

[djorange1989]

If the ACC adds teams, we get a contract look-in with ESPN and a chance to up the payouts. If we add big draws like Washington, Oregon, Stanford and ASU or Arizona, that will surely increase the TV payouts.

Oh no doubt, I think Oregon and Washington, while they won’t get us close to the Big 2, would absolutely increase the payout and I would love to see it.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The appeal is the fact that the Big 12 will get another crack at a contract before the ACC gets one and the ACC is 100% going to blow up when 2036 gets here. I am not knocking the ACC, it is still a really solid conference, but the problem it has that the Big 12 doesn’t have now that Oklahoma and Texas are leaving is that there are haves and have nots in the ACC, by a wide margin, and the haves want out.

But that contract ending sooner can be a bad thing. After 5 years of no Texas and no Oklahoma, will it have a big impact on B12 recruiting? Will the additions of Colorado and X further dilute an already diluted product? Will the rating be there? How much money will be leftover after the next B16 and next SEC contracts?

The B12 got lucky with this last contract. In 5 years they may very well be in the same spot the PAC is currently. The PAC after all has better FB brands and better markets than the B12.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Feels like only Washington and Oregon would move the needle, I think all else, minus Notre Dame obviously, would be more for PR/appearance, like we are expanding and strong!

IMO Washington, Oregon, Arizona State, and one of the Cali schools would move the needle. The problem is I doubt you can convince Cal and Stanford to split.

 

[Sherman20]

Not too much ground breaking info but some interesting nuggets in there. Specifically the potential to expand to prevent other conferences from expanding.

ACC 'absolutely' open to expanding membership

ACC commissioner Jim Phillips said the league continues to actively consider adding teams but has thus far not found enough value in any expansion option.

www.espn.com

This is a key point in the ESPN article:
Several ACC athletics directors expressed concerns to ESPN, however, that the Big 12's push for continued growth could threaten the ACC's third-place status, particularly given that league will have an opportunity to negotiate another new TV deal four years before the ACC does. As one AD suggested, expansion could be valuable to the league simply as a means of preventing the Big 12 from growing further.

Phillips acknowledged that reality at the league's kickoff event this week.

"You have to understand what's going on across the country," Phillips told ESPN. "Maybe you preempt [another league's expansion], maybe you don't, maybe there's a first thing that has to happen before you make a move. There's a variety of ways you attack this."

 

[elimunelson]

Not too much ground breaking info but some interesting nuggets in there. Specifically the potential to expand to prevent other conferences from expanding.

ACC 'absolutely' open to expanding membership

ACC commissioner Jim Phillips said the league continues to actively consider adding teams but has thus far not found enough value in any expansion option.

www.espn.com

This is a key point in the ESPN article:
Several ACC athletics directors expressed concerns to ESPN, however, that the Big 12's push for continued growth could threaten the ACC's third-place status, particularly given that league will have an opportunity to negotiate another new TV deal four years before the ACC does. As one AD suggested, expansion could be valuable to the league simply as a means of preventing the Big 12 from growing further.

Phillips acknowledged that reality at the league's kickoff event this week.

"You have to understand what's going on across the country," Phillips told ESPN. "Maybe you preempt [another league's expansion], maybe you don't, maybe there's a first thing that has to happen before you make a move. There's a variety of ways you attack this."

The people pushing for this concern I would gather would be the ones who leave first.

I'm sure Phillips is weighing their malevolent intentions.

 

[Hoo's That]

From what airport do Penn State teams fly out of?

IIRC, PSU had to get the airport near State College upgraded to handle big planes as a proviso on their admission to the B1G.

 

[Bayside44]

But that contract ending sooner can be a bad thing. After 5 years of no Texas and no Oklahoma, will it have a big impact on B12 recruiting? Will the additions of Colorado and X further dilute an already diluted product? Will the rating be there? How much money will be leftover after the next B16 and next SEC contracts?

The B12 got lucky with this last contract. In 5 years they may very well be in the same spot the PAC is currently. The PAC after all has better FB brands and better markets than the B12.

I agree with this.

The cable box model is dying, and sports are moving in a different direction with distribution.

The Colorado thing screams Coach Prime wanting to recruit Texas and nothing more than that.

 

[Hoo's That]

I suppose you could take Utah instead of an Eastern team. Then the ACC teams can all keep their 3 perm rivals. But that adds an extra cross country trip. Also instead of playing 4 teams yearly and everyone else 4x in 15 years, you are at only 3 teams yearly and 5x in 16 years.

So Oregon State/Washington State to the MWC, Arizona to the B12, everyone else to the ACC. Temple and UConn left out.

Plus, bringing in Utah gives ACC MLax an autobid to the NCAA tournament.

 

[TexanMark]

If we took the top 6 PAC schools then that is enough for the non rev sports to minimize scheduling cross country. For BBall we would have 3 trips a year. For FB it would be 1 trip most years, occasionally 0 trips.

6 is better...4 is not enough

 

[JKinPhilly]

If the ACC does expand, which teams would you like to see join the conference? Curious what you all think.

Selfishly I want Utah...only because I now live about 45 minutes from their stadium.

 

[kcsu]

The appeal is the fact that the Big 12 will get another crack at a contract before the ACC gets one and the ACC is 100% going to blow up when 2036 gets here. I am not knocking the ACC, it is still a really solid conference, but the problem it has that the Big 12 doesn’t have now that Oklahoma and Texas are leaving is that there are haves and have nots in the ACC, by a wide margin, and the haves want out.

What you are missing is that the haves as you call them don't want out. They want more money. If the ACC could add teams that would accept a lower payout than the existing members, it could work. Other than Florida State NC and Virginia i don't see any ACC teams that add value to either the SEC or the Big and that is questionable.

 

[NKR1978]

If the ACC does expand, which teams would you like to see join the conference? Curious what you all think.

UConn is the obvious choice. I could live with Tulane and SMU. USF and Temple are non starters for me.

An ACC West with Arizona, ASU, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Oregon and Utah would be my dream out of the box expansion with a conference semi final and championship game.

Wish the ACC was able to wrangle Kansas, Ok State, WVU, TCU,Texas Tech and Baylor before the Big 12 solidified

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

Add Washington, Oregon, Utah, Arizona State and San Diego State. Gets you to 20 teams.

 

[WoadBlue]

If the ACC adds teams, we get a contract look-in with ESPN and a chance to up the payouts. If we add big draws like Washington, Oregon, Stanford and ASU or Arizona, that will surely increase the TV payouts.

Arizona is a bad draw in football, and ASU is better draw in basketball than most assume while being much better than Arizona in football. If we add only 1 AZ school, it should be AAU Arizona St.

 

[WoadBlue]

UConn is the obvious choice. I could live with Tulane and SMU. USF and Temple are non starters for me.

An ACC West with Arizona, ASU, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Oregon and Utah would be my dream out of the box expansion with a conference semi final and championship game.

Wish the ACC was able to wrangle Kansas, Ok State, WVU, TCU,Texas Tech and Baylor before the Big 12 solidified

That was failure of leadership. I could do without KU, but getting into TX big and adding WVU would have been good moves for the ACC.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Adding Washington, Oregon, Arizona State, Utah, Stanford, and Cal would increase the ACC's avg attendance and increase the gap between the ACC and the B12. The ACC would also be adding 2 FB brands that are better than anything in the B12. On top of that 3 decent FB brands. Decent BBall across the board. Two very good academic schools. Five new states and three pretty big markets. It also gives the opportunity for ACC after dark on ESPN and the ACCN.

 

[All4SU]

But that contract ending sooner can be a bad thing. After 5 years of no Texas and no Oklahoma, will it have a big impact on B12 recruiting? Will the additions of Colorado and X further dilute an already diluted product? Will the rating be there? How much money will be leftover after the next B16 and next SEC contracts?

The B12 got lucky with this last contract. In 5 years they may very well be in the same spot the PAC is currently. The PAC after all has better FB brands and better markets than the B12.

I think College conferences create a vacuum. Teams leave the BE, and Villanova becomes a powerhouse. Texas and OK leaving for the SEC simply opens the road for sone other B12 team to step up.

 

[CousCuse]

Arizona is a bad draw in football, and ASU is better draw in basketball than most assume while being much better than Arizona in football. If we add only 1 AZ school, it should be AAU Arizona St.

If Arizona goes to the Big 12 it's hard to see ASU not wanting to keep their rivalry with them in a conference.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think College conferences create a vacuum. Teams leave the BE, and Villanova becomes a powerhouse. Texas and OK leaving for the SEC simply opens the road for sone other B12 team to step up.

Fair point. I think the difference is Nova could pull in Philly recruits no problem. Also the Big East was #1 in the Northeast.

Texas recruits have fed the B12 for years. Are those kids going to want to play for Texas, A&M, Oklahoma, other SEC teams against those prior teams and the rest of the SEC, or are they going to want to stay in the B12?

The SEC had a team in Texas before but they weren't the "local" conference because big name Texas and Oklahoma were in the B12. Going forward the SEC is going to be #1 in Texas. That is a big shift. Schools Mizzou, Ole Miss, Miss State are going to now be able to steal some of those Texas kids would used to feed the B12 programs.