ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[TheCusian]

Eh, conferences did get too big and too stretched out. History shows the exact opposite of what he’s talking about

 

[NYCCuse826]

I’m not endorsing it, but if you add Stanford and UCONN to women’s hoops, that major. Womens basketball is a sleeping giant for tv revenue. Ten million watched Iowa and LSU last year.

That's an anomaly. Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese were must see TV.

 

[shandeezy7]

I love a lot of sports outside of football, but can we please get it out of our heads that any sport matters in these realignment discussions outside of football? It doesn’t matter how dominant a men’s or women’s basketball program is. The amount that factors into these discussions is negligible. Football drives the overwhelming majority of revenue for college athletics. All of the other sports combined don’t move the needle enough to have an impact.

 

[Chris02M]

I love a lot of sports outside of football, but can we please get it out of our heads that any sport matters in these realignment discussions outside of football? It doesn’t matter how dominant a men’s or women’s basketball program is. The amount that factors into these discussions is negligible. Football drives the overwhelming majority of revenue for college athletics. All of the other sports combined don’t move the needle enough to have an impact.

its all about the pickleball teams

 

[sabach]

I love a lot of sports outside of football, but can we please get it out of our heads that any sport matters in these realignment discussions outside of football? It doesn’t matter how dominant a men’s or women’s basketball program is. The amount that factors into these discussions is negligible. Football drives the overwhelming majority of revenue for college athletics. All of the other sports combined don’t move the needle enough to have an impact.

Exactly.

 

[tep624]

That's an anomaly. Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese were must see TV.

Yeah that is in no way representative of an average women’s P5 basketball viewership.

 

[Scotch]

Eh, conferences did get too big and too stretched out. History shows the exact opposite of what he’s talking about

What’s worrying is that he’s in the know - he’s prepping people for what the B1G is going to do and it sounds like he’s very much talking about the ACC.

 

[Millhouse]

Something to consider in the 11-4 vote. Those are the votes of the presidents….not the ADs. I would suspect that the vote among athletic directors it would be more evenly split, and even more no votes. There’s been some reporting that some teams have disagreements among the ADs and president and what to do here. I would think some presidents would be absolutely giddy about having Cal and Stanford join their conference with little thought as to its impact on athletics. Or their belief is the academics outweigh the negative affects of the Athletics.

So I don’t think you can necessarily draw conclusions about how some teams voted and whether that correlates or not to them having a soft landing someplace.

I know this is simplistic and someone who works at a college will scoff. But how does injuring the brains of football players at a school with better educational outcomes improve educational outcomes at Syracuse?

 

[Hoo's That]

Stanford would fit fine academically and athletically. Geography hardly matters anymore if we follow the recent wave.

SMU in the ACC has Houston potential imo and give us a market in Texas to potentially expand upon.

Uconn immediately becomes a top 2 or 3 cbb program in the ACC and has football potential, albeit small, whether people here admit it or not. They also solidify the NYC, Boston tv markets. If the ACC had a brain our conference tourney would alternate between NYC and Charlotte/DC, but the ACC cares less about viewership than we do here.

Cal’s just a fourth team. Maybe SDSU or someone else fits better.

SMU is in Dallas, not Houston. Adding SMU (which I'm totally in favor of) won't move the needle very much in Houston.

Not a bad idea.

Swap BC for PSU and Wake for USC East

USC-e was a founding member of the ACC and left primarily over the ACC's 800 rule, which required recruits to get at least 800 total on the SATs. The ACC scrapped it when the NCAA came up with standards for recruits to meet. They also didn't like how the NC schools tended to vote as a bloc, stopping anything they didn't like.

I know this is simplistic and someone who works at a college will scoff. But how does injuring the brains of football players at a school with better educational outcomes improve educational outcomes at Syracuse?

The reckoning over CTE is in the future. It's inescapable. It will probably come after the reckoning over the class attendance requirement that will have the superpowers break the football, both basketball, and baseball/softball teams out of the NCAA..

 

[baggerbob]

SMU is in Dallas, not Houston. Adding SMU (which I'm totally in favor of) won't move the needle very much in Houston.


USC-e was a founding member of the ACC and left primarily over the ACC's 800 rule, which required recruits to get at least 800 total on the SATs. The ACC scrapped it when the NCAA came up with standards for recruits to meet. They also didn't like how the NC schools tended to vote as a bloc, stopping anything they didn't like.


The reckoning over CTE is in the future. It's inescapable. It will probably come after the reckoning over the class attendance requirement that will have the superpowers break the football, both basketball, and baseball/softball teams out of the NCAA..

Rather then Miami, and Virginia Tech going to the ACC, back in 2003.
If the football schools had broken away, and added Florida St, Virginia, and Maryland you would have had a great conference.

 

[MikeSU02]

You mean like how if the SEC were a serious conference its headquarters would not be in Birmingham? How stuck in a many decades-lost past are you? What matters are TV numbers for football (about 90%) and for basketball (about 10%). It does not matter one teensy little bit where the league office is located. If the ACC had PSU rather than BC and SoCar rather than Wake, the league office could be in Pittsboro and the league would not be in any danger of losing members because the football TV would be much higher, resulting in a much bigger TV deal.

The SEC is the leader in the clubhouse. It can have its HQ in Barbados.

The ACC is not and has expanded within the I-95 corridor but now remains content to be vying for the third best conference.

NYC is an asset sitting there that the B1G has been tackling, but the ACC is content with its big move to Charlotte vs the largest city in America that would be a top 20 global economy stand alone and is a center of finance, media and commerce.

And the reason we should have done this is bc we have universities like UNC voting against Stanford which has plenty of eyeballs for football and an endowment between $35bn and $40bn.

So let’s stay in NC, while we have four teams actively working against the conference they’re in.

 

[Trueblue25]

SMU is in Dallas, not Houston. Adding SMU (which I'm totally in favor of) won't move the needle very much in Houston.


USC-e was a founding member of the ACC and left primarily over the ACC's 800 rule, which required recruits to get at least 800 total on the SATs. The ACC scrapped it when the NCAA came up with standards for recruits to meet. They also didn't like how the NC schools tended to vote as a bloc, stopping anything they didn't like.


The reckoning over CTE is in the future. It's inescapable. It will probably come after the reckoning over the class attendance requirement that will have the superpowers break the football, both basketball, and baseball/softball teams out of the NCAA..

I meant that as a program they have the potential to replicate the success Houston has had.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think the B18 going to 30 schools might be the best thing for all involved. The bigger you go the more regional you become. Especially for non FB and BBall sports.

For FB and BBall you have the below 6 divisions.

Old PAC 8 - USC, Washington, Oregon, UCLA, Stanford
Mainly old Big 8 - Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, Arizona State, Kansas
OG Big 10 Western - Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern
OG Big 10 Eastern - Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Mainly old Eastern Indies - Notre Dame, Penn State, Syracuse, Maryland, Rutgers
Mainly old ACC - Miami, Clemson, GA Tech, UNC, UVA

Outside of the old B10W you have at least 1 FB power and at least 1 BBall power in each.

For other sports you can go to down to 3 divisions West (PAC/B8), Central (B10), East (E/ACC). So SU would be with ND, PSU, MD, RU, UVA, UNC, Clemson, GT, Miami.

In FB you play your 4 division mates yearly, rotate one team from the other divisions yearly, and one additional rotated game against the division in your part of the country. For instance SU would play ND, PSU, MD, RU yearly (H&A over 2 years), 2 teams from the "ACC" division yearly (H&A over 5 years), and one team each from the other divisions (H&A over 10 years). So we would have 5 West Coast trips over 10 years (every other year).

In BBall you play your 4 division H&A yearly, the other division in your part yearly (H&A over 2 years), 2 teams from the rest yearly (H&A over 5 years), plus one additional game. For instance SU would play ND, PSU, MD, RU home and away, then UVA, UNC, Clemson, GT, Miami, and then 2 teams each from the other divisions. So a yearly West Coast trip.

 

[CuseCactus]

The SEC is the leader in the clubhouse. It can have its HQ in Barbados.

The ACC is not and has expanded within the I-95 corridor but now remains content to be vying for the third best conference.

NYC is an asset sitting there that the B1G has been tackling, but the ACC is content with its big move to Charlotte vs the largest city in America that would be a top 20 global economy stand alone and is a center of finance, media and commerce.

And the reason we should have done this is bc we have universities like UNC voting against Stanford which has plenty of eyeballs for football and an endowment between $35bn and $40bn.

So let’s stay in NC, while we have four teams actively working against the conference they’re in.

Great post. Amazing shortsightedness by the powers that be to let the Big East continue to have MSG for their conference tourney. I'm quite confident - if the ACC had wished to do so - that they could have overwhelmed any financial deal the BE has/had with MSG. Myopic.

And now NC wants to bolt. Thanks a lot!

It's all so creepy.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Great post. Amazing shortsightedness by the powers that be to let the Big East continue to have MSG for their conference tourney. I'm quite confident - if the ACC had wished to do so - that they could have overwhelmed any financial deal the BE has/had with MSG. Myopic.

And now NC wants to bolt. Thanks a lot!

It's all so creepy.

Why would they wish to do so?

Moving the ACCT from Greensboro to MSG on a permanent basis would go over about as well as moving SU football games to Yankee Stadium.

 

[Bayside44]

Why would they wish to do so?

Moving the ACCT from Greensboro to MSG on a permanent basis would go over about as well as moving SU football games to Yankee Stadium.

The hoops tournaments since we've been here have been in DC, Brooklyn, Charlotte and Greensboro, well attended and well viewed. That's not the problem or solution to what may ail the ACC.

Best hope is that we are taking our medicine (if pushing 40 million is like taking castor oil medicine) now and will be better off if these mega conferences cave in on themselves in the next round of TV deals, worst is that the whole system is shot to hell anyway.

 

[CuseCactus]

The hoops tournaments since we've been here have been in DC, Brooklyn, Charlotte and Greensboro, well attended and well viewed. That's not the problem or solution to what may ail the ACC.

Best hope is that we are taking our medicine (if pushing 40 million is like taking castor oil medicine) now and will be better off if these mega conferences cave in on themselves in the next round of TV deals, worst is that the whole system is shot to hell anyway.

My point - poorly stated, I admit - was that the ACC seems to miss accretive opportunities.

Certainly, having the conference tourney in NYC wouldn't address the bigger issue re football. But it also would have, to some degree, enhanced the entertainment value (and likely some add'l revenue) to the ACC. I didn't intend my post to be some sort of panacea - just pointing out that the ACC seems to miss on the "singles" and "doubles" out there.

 

[Bayside44]

My point - poorly stated, I admit - was that the ACC seems to miss accretive opportunities.

Certainly, having the conference tourney in NYC wouldn't address the bigger issue re football. But it also would have, to some degree, enhanced the entertainment value (and likely some add'l revenue) to the ACC. I didn't intend my post to be some sort of panacea - just pointing out that the ACC seems to miss on the "singles" and "doubles" out there.

I've been to Greesnboro and agree having it there is stupid. The arena isn't walkable and there just isn't the hotel space or easy in and out flights of the other markets.

Brooklyn though, I give them credit for broadening their horizons. DC is a great venue, at least it was before half of downtown shut down, hopefully it rebounds (no pun intended).

The conference (it seems) tries to plant a football game in NYC and this place goes nuts.

 

[Trueblue25]

I've been to Greesnboro and agree having it there is stupid. The arena isn't walkable and there just isn't the hotel space or easy in and out flights of the other markets.

Brooklyn though, I give them credit for broadening their horizons. DC is a great venue, at least it was before half of downtown shut down, hopefully it rebounds (no pun intended).

The conference (it seems) tries to plant a football game in NYC and this place goes nuts.

Theres a difference between a conference tourney game and 1 of 6 should be home games but I understand your point.

 

[Bayside44]

Theres a difference between a conference tourney game and 1 of 6 should be home games but I understand your point.

Yeah just what's considered accretive and what is considered dumb I suppose..

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think adding Stanford, Cal, SMU would put a dent into B12 recruiting. First the lost of Texas and Oklahoma will make it harder to recruit Texas even with the 4 Texas schools. Then having SMU and their NIL taking kids would make it even harder. ASU, Arizona, Utah, Colorado no longer play games in Cali. That is going to hurt.

Looking at the Top 25, I think that gives an indication of how the B12 will always start behind and need to work their way up. And it will be harder to move up when you have no marquee games.

Top 13 teams...
Future SEC - 5
Future B18 - 5
ACC - 2
B12 - 0.0

In fairness they do have 3 of the next 4 ranked teams. But the point being they won't likely have a preseason Top 10 team to carry them. Their margin for error in getting a 2nd team in the playoff is very small. The ACC will at least have chances for name Ws.

 

[MikeSU02]

Why would they wish to do so?

Moving the ACCT from Greensboro to MSG on a permanent basis would go over about as well as moving SU football games to Yankee Stadium.

Because the fight now is to be a national conference.

MSG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anywhere else for a conference that is the east coast for a conference bball tourney.

The conference has to be all in to compete or else we're sitting ducks. Which may be fine. Hey, let's play it out and then just see where the current takes us.

But otherwise, right now, the teams most likely to leave are blocking a national expansion.

If you can 100% promise me we have a safe landing, sure, I'll let it go. If not, then I don't see how letting FSU, Clemson, UNC and UNC's little cousin dictate our future is a good thing.

We need to be done appeasing the North Carolina mafia here. We are either a conference that wants to be national or not. And if not, that's fine. But then let's be real about what future expectations should be. Because they are not in the best interest of Syracuse unless there is a landing spot already promised.

 

[sabach]

I certainly hope this is not the future of college football.

 

[DocFlanders]

I certainly hope this is not the future of college football.

yikes that would not be good

 

[sabach]

yikes that would not be good

Yup. Schools previously got into the Big 12 which we probably would have gotten into before them but we were locked in the ACC thinking we were safe. Since those schools are already in the Big 12, they aren't leaving and the open chairs in the Big 3 conferences are being taken by the other ACC schools that are ahead of us in the pecking order.

Can you imagine if these 60 teams break off and have their own March Madness. A Big Dance without SU or Duke or UConn. It's not so crazy to imagine seeing how football dollars literally run everything.

We may end up one day in a conference with SU, Duke, Wake, GT, Oregon State, Washington State, Cal, Stanford and UConn. The left behind conference with good academics, good hoops and mid major football.