We need to go back to the big east | Page 8 | Syracusefan.com

We need to go back to the big east

I think looking at attendance is a very flawed way to analyze this. Attendance is driven by die-hard fans, TV is driven by casual fans. I’d expect attendance numbers to remain stronger while TV ratings drop first. TV ratings would tell us college basketball generally is on life support, and the Syracuse-Georgetown rivalry is in need of an AED immediately. I’m skeptical even if an AED arrives and there’s a big game between Syracuse and Georgetown at the Dome that attendance will be anywhere near 80s level - and TV ratings absolutely won’t be.
Reminds of these nostalgia pro wrestling matches between two has beens. Interesting for a minute, but everyone knows it’s not real and the best days are behind both.
 
I’m not sure what you think linking an article that’s behind a paywall, and that says Columbus is a good area for college basketball TV ratings, does for your case.

You have no data for your case. None. At all.

You need to be able to show that TV ratings are highly regional AND that people tend to only watch teams in their region, AND that regional ratings are highly enough that dropping them from a super league would have a big negative financial impact. The last part is the hardest, college basketball ratings are so terrible that getting rid of mouths to feed is more important than worrying kicking some of the folks away means the minuscule relish tray might disappear. And saying “Calipari draws ratings for Arkansas!” is like saying “Winning draws ratings for Duke!” Personalities and winning drives ratings - that works in MY favor, not YOURS. If you want to say “nobody in the SEC watches unless their team is winning, and/or they have compelling personalities associated with the team” - I’d agree with that. That’s not your position though.
I got past the paywall. It’s top 10 TV markets and it’s all northern areas except Lexington. Again you and a few others have been repeating the same things for a decade. Word salad. Give me a break.
 
Why does it need to be rebuilt? I’m not saying football doesn’t exist just don’t think we are invited to the big 2 conferences.

Because without the revenue from football, that plot of land is more valuable as something else. And without the TV revenue, football cannot survive at all (see: UConn). The only financially viable decision is probably to demo the Dome, drop football, move basketball elsewhere.

It’s a fantasy that Syracuse can lose @$33MM in revenue and not make massive changes to more than just football. That’s the difference between ACC and UConn right now. Basketball will absolutely be impacted - the question is how.

UConn went from @$7MM/yr in TV revenue to @$4.5MM by leaving the American for the Big East. The plan was they are losing a lot either way, going to the Big East gave them a chance to build their basketball brand more as a selling point to a bigger league. The “let’s go back to the Big East!” crowd is saying -
1) We can find another league for football and have basketball in its own league, when UConn was unable to do that -OR-
2) We can compete independently as an ongoing plan just like UConn without realizing that was a stop gap solution for UConn.

If you want to assume Dome still exists and football is in it - how do you think losing over $33MM/yr in revenue will impact the athletic department overall, and basketball specifically? The money end of this makes the Big East laughably stupid to consider.
 
I got past the paywall. It’s top 10 TV markets and it’s all northern areas except Lexington. Again you and a few others have been repeating the same things for a decade. Word salad. Give me a break.

So SEC ratings are great (relative to how terrible basketball ratings are), so a lot of that is coming from people in the northeast. How does that make your case northeast school are vital? You keep making my point instead and not realizing it…

You. Have. No. Case.
 


I’m curious what Carparelli solution would’ve been. Etan just complains with no actual reasonable solutions. I love the ‘family’ for all the greatness they accomplished at Syracuse, but they don’t have the smarts of the Duke ‘brotherhood’ that should be influencing major decisions. Especially if they are passive when it comes to opening up the checkbooks to influence their preferred outcome. I mean we have to have atleast one basketball alumni who gets it? Why we are in the ACC and need to hire a guy like Bryan Hodgson.
 


I’m curious what Carparelli solution would’ve been. Etan just complains with no actual reasonable solutions. I love the ‘family’ for all the greatness they accomplished at Syracuse, but they don’t have the smarts of the Duke ‘brotherhood’ that should be influencing major decisions. Especially if they are passive when it comes to opening up the checkbooks to influence their preferred outcome. I mean we have to have atleast one basketball alumni who gets it? Why we are in the ACC and need to hire a guy like Bryan Hodgson.

That probably didn't help if Nick went with that theory in his interview.
 
That probably didn't help if Nick went with that theory in his interview.
The Office Yes GIF
 
So SEC ratings are great (relative to how terrible basketball ratings are), so a lot of that is coming from people in the northeast. How does that make your case northeast school are vital? You keep making my point instead and not realizing it…

You. Have. No. Case.
No, I’m not. And it’s real rich coming from you when you can’t even get behind a paywall and you’ve showed zero data yourself. However, have mastered the art of the gish gallop

What’s stopping the SEC or Big from doing what you say now? Oh that’s because they’d lose money on the deal from decreased competition and ESPN/CBs isn’t going to torpedo their other interests.

Posts I’ve read on this board since 2014 that I can bump
If you don’t believe me:

2014: SEC is going to break away in 4-5 years

2017: SEC is going to break away 2-3 years.

2020: SEC is going to break away in 2-3 years

2024: SEC is going to break away in 2-3 years

2026: SEC is going to break away in 2-3 years

Why hasn’t it happened? What’s stopped them? People in this thread including someone above you has predicted it that long.

Btw no one up north will care about some random Ole Miss and Texas A&M basketball game. Whatever future there is will include a tournament with an ACC hybrid Big 12 and Big East. The economics and politics won’t let it happen. Plus I sense we would be dealing with major Anti Trust laws if there’s actually politicians in place who care about that then.
 
The big east had as many bids as the WCC and 1 more bid than the A10 and MAC. The committee gave the team that won the regular season and conference championship a 5 seed despite 26 wins and 18-2 in the conference.

You could certainly argue whether or not leaving the BigEast hurt us in basketball. But the conference itself is a mid major. UConn has been really good. StJohns was cooked before Pitino showed up. The third best coach in the conference is Kevin Willard lol. Most of the league is irrelevant. Our issues have nothing to do with conference affiliation. If anything Red would have had more wins the big east - UConn had to play Xavier and Georgetown to get to the conference title game
 
Because without the revenue from football, that plot of land is more valuable as something else. And without the TV revenue, football cannot survive at all (see: UConn). The only financially viable decision is probably to demo the Dome, drop football, move basketball elsewhere.

It’s a fantasy that Syracuse can lose @$33MM in revenue and not make massive changes to more than just football. That’s the difference between ACC and UConn right now. Basketball will absolutely be impacted - the question is how.

UConn went from @$7MM/yr in TV revenue to @$4.5MM by leaving the American for the Big East. The plan was they are losing a lot either way, going to the Big East gave them a chance to build their basketball brand more as a selling point to a bigger league. The “let’s go back to the Big East!” crowd is saying -
1) We can find another league for football and have basketball in its own league, when UConn was unable to do that -OR-
2) We can compete independently as an ongoing plan just like UConn without realizing that was a stop gap solution for UConn.

If you want to assume Dome still exists and football is in it - how do you think losing over $33MM/yr in revenue will impact the athletic department overall, and basketball specifically? The money end of this makes the Big East laughably stupid to consider.
I think you are missing the part where I think the football decision won’t be our decision. We will be moved somewhere. I just think we need to be pro active with the basketball asset when that happens.

If you think this makes the dome a Costco ultimately sure. I think the best case is we are back with similar football teams w a decent tv package and basketball is back w north east schools.

Sounds like 2004 again.
 
Why does it need to be rebuilt? I’m not saying football doesn’t exist just don’t think we are invited to the big 2 conferences.
You a loser for hating football, waiting for it to die? Basketball teams going go with the football breakaway, too much money. Have fun Su v Hofstra for d2 title
 
The big east had as many bids as the WCC and 1 more bid than the A10 and MAC. The committee gave the team that won the regular season and conference championship a 5 seed despite 26 wins and 18-2 in the conference.

You could certainly argue whether or not leaving the BigEast hurt us in basketball. But the conference itself is a mid major. UConn has been really good. StJohns was cooked before Pitino showed up. The third best coach in the conference is Kevin Willard lol. Most of the league is irrelevant. Our issues have nothing to do with conference affiliation. If anything Red would have had more wins the big east - UConn had to play Xavier and Georgetown to get to the conference title game
They are having a down year. UConn and Nova have won 5 titles in the last 10 years (or thereabout). SJU is a dangerous team with a top 10 NIL budget. The rest of the league is down, but I don’t think any of their 11 teams are outside of the top 100 in kenpom. Plus, I don’t think any Syracuse fan truly wants to go back. It’s impossible at this point unless football was scrapped. That’s not going to happen.

I said it above, but what I would like to see is some kind of merger. Not necessarily all of the Big East, but at least UConn, Nova, SJU, and Georgetown. Possibly Seton Hall and Providence too. Then move the ACC Tournament to MSG. Tell me that tournament wouldn’t be sick.
 
No, I’m not. And it’s real rich coming from you when you can’t even get behind a paywall and you’ve showed zero data yourself. However, have mastered the art of the gish gallop

What’s stopping the SEC or Big from doing what you say now? Oh that’s because they’d lose money on the deal from decreased competition and ESPN/CBs isn’t going to torpedo their other interests.

Posts I’ve read on this board since 2014 that I can bump
If you don’t believe me:

2014: SEC is going to break away in 4-5 years

2017: SEC is going to break away 2-3 years.

2020: SEC is going to break away in 2-3 years

2024: SEC is going to break away in 2-3 years

2026: SEC is going to break away in 2-3 years

Why hasn’t it happened? What’s stopped them? People in this thread including someone above you has predicted it that long.

Btw no one up north will care about some random Ole Miss and Texas A&M basketball game. Whatever future there is will include a tournament with an ACC hybrid Big 12 and Big East. The economics and politics won’t let it happen. Plus I sense we would be dealing with major Anti Trust laws if there’s actually politicians in place who care about that then.

I couldn’t give a crap about posts you can pull showing predictions that I didn’t make. And I was pretty sure the paywalled article was pointless and irrelevant stupidity you think matters but doesn’t - and I was correct. Here’s the four facts that matter:

1). Northeast markets dominate college basketball TV viewership
2) Big Ten and SEC schools dominate the top 10 in TV ratings
3). College basketball ratings have dropped off a cliff over the last 2-3 decades
4) Viewership is mostly regional.

Let me know which one of those you want to dispute if any. Because figuring out what those four pieces of data should tell you, I only see one conclusion - viewership overall has gotten so bad that a top viewership market and mediocre one have almost no gap. A good market is bad, a bad market is terrible. And the business either has rapidly declining value that can’t be salvaged - or major change is needed to salvage it.

When a business is at that point, there are two options:
1). Do something significant to rejuvenate the business
2). Choose to do nothing and invest nothing, just draw whatever profits out that you can until the business dies.

What should worry you about the SEC and Big Ten “not doing anything” ISN’T that they’d lose money. It’s that they don’t think it’s worth doing anything at all. Totally agree politics and legal hurdles are a MAJOR issue. They may be so major that doing anything isn’t possible or worth the effort. I think the “effort” is to slowly and “accidentally” kill competition by pulling any remaining teams from the ACC and Big 12 so those leagues effectively die, but in a way the big boys can claim wasn’t their fault. That makes guessing a timeline a fool’s errand. Hopefully that is indeed the strategy - because if it isn’t, it means they don’t care about basketball long term as a revenue driver.

Let me know if you dispute any of the four facts, or if you have a theory that actually explains ALL four. Because your “things are awesome just the way they are!” does not.
 
I couldn’t give a crap about posts you can pull showing predictions that I didn’t make. And I was pretty sure the paywalled article was pointless and irrelevant stupidity you think matters but doesn’t - and I was correct. Here’s the four facts that matter:

1). Northeast markets dominate college basketball TV viewership
2) Big Ten and SEC schools dominate the top 10 in TV ratings
3). College basketball ratings have dropped off a cliff over the last 2-3 decades
4) Viewership is mostly regional.

Let me know which one of those you want to dispute if any. Because figuring out what those four pieces of data should tell you, I only see one conclusion - viewership overall has gotten so bad that a top viewership market and mediocre one have almost no gap. A good market is bad, a bad market is terrible. And the business either has rapidly declining value that can’t be salvaged - or major change is needed to salvage it.

When a business is at that point, there are two options:
1). Do something significant to rejuvenate the business
2). Choose to do nothing and invest nothing, just draw whatever profits out that you can until the business dies.

What should worry you about the SEC and Big Ten “not doing anything” ISN’T that they’d lose money. It’s that they don’t think it’s worth doing anything at all. Totally agree politics and legal hurdles are a MAJOR issue. They may be so major that doing anything isn’t possible or worth the effort. I think the “effort” is to slowly and “accidentally” kill competition by pulling any remaining teams from the ACC and Big 12 so those leagues effectively die, but in a way the big boys can claim wasn’t their fault. That makes guessing a timeline a fool’s errand. Hopefully that is indeed the strategy - because if it isn’t, it means they don’t care about basketball long term as a revenue driver.

Let me know if you dispute any of the four facts, or if you have a theory that actually explains ALL four. Because your “things are awesome just the way they are!” does not.
Number 2 is a complete lie, but whatever. You do you if it makes you feel better. I know what article you looked at. It was from on3. At least you could’ve copied and pasted it. Funny you leave out Kansas from that article or UNC and Dukes being one and 3 in ratings this year.
 
No, I’m not. And it’s real rich coming from you when you can’t even get behind a paywall and you’ve showed zero data yourself. However, have mastered the art of the gish gallop

What’s stopping the SEC or Big from doing what you say now? Oh that’s because they’d lose money on the deal from decreased competition and ESPN/CBs isn’t going to torpedo their other interests.

Posts I’ve read on this board since 2014 that I can bump
If you don’t believe me:

2014: SEC is going to break away in 4-5 years

2017: SEC is going to break away 2-3 years.

2020: SEC is going to break away in 2-3 years

2024: SEC is going to break away in 2-3 years

2026: SEC is going to break away in 2-3 years

Why hasn’t it happened? What’s stopped them? People in this thread including someone above you has predicted it that long.

Btw no one up north will care about some random Ole Miss and Texas A&M basketball game. Whatever future there is will include a tournament with an ACC hybrid Big 12 and Big East. The economics and politics won’t let it happen. Plus I sense we would be dealing with major Anti Trust laws if there’s actually politicians in place who care about that then.
Maybe I’m crazy but I wish the SEC would break away.
 
This is not 1950, it was 60/40 or 50/50 split. Now it is 80 football/20 basketball. We need to put priority on football.
 
I dont know all the ins and outs, but i know the move was all about football and money. But leaving the acc destroyed syracuse basketball. We had a good regular season the first acc year, and a miracle final 4 run in 2016. But other than that just a complete and utter disaster.

We’re an east coast team. We have a huge alumni/fan base in the tri state area. What games can we go to??? Nova in philly? Nope. Seton hall in newark? Nope. St johns at the garden? Nope. Jimmy v classic at the garden? Nope. Big east tournament at the garden? Nope.

I cant help but think leaving the big east affected recruiting. We just dont belong in the acc. We had a legacy in the big east. We had TRADITION. That matters. Now we got nothing.

This really sux. Even if we stunk, if we were playing providence and villanova and st johns and uconn and seton hall in february id still watch. Big east tournament id still watch. But virginia? Cal? SMU???? Duke unc ohh great we’ll lose by 30. Wake forest lol. Wheres the acc tournament this year? Who knows and who cares

Im so disgusted. I loved syracuse basketball i loved the big east. And i miss both terribly. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
I agree s.u. dominated the big east mostly and pretty me much won that tournament every year
 

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