ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment | Page 307 | Syracusefan.com

ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

Agree you haven't changed your argument. My point is what I posted has little to do with your argument. You are tangenting.

Why are you assuming Clemson? It wasn't too long ago that I would argue that GA Tech was a better FB program (Ross/O'Leary/Gailey/Johnson > Hatfield/West/Bowden). Clemson's success the last 10 years or so has been great, but that doesn't ensure future success. IMO if the scenario I laid out happens it would be FSU and UNC.

But back to my point the exit would be very expensive and nearly impossible for a school to do on its own. That is where ESPN could assist and "buy back" the TV rights. You are totally ignoring this angle. Whether or not ESPN can afford it (which I suspect they cannot) is a fair argument.

You are also assuming hostility. If the ACC wanted to play hardball, no one can leave. But why choose that route? If over the next 10 years the ACC can make MORE money for everyone, why turn that down out of spite? If (a big IF) all parties can come to an agreement, why not? You keep making it so a mutually beneficial exit is NOT possible. That is naive.

I believe the Tier 1/2 rights from ESPN is $25M a year. Why would there be a need to buy back rights for $50M? The B12 let Texas out early because it made them more money. This move would be the same. Also wasn't what Texas paid the exit fee AND one year of TV rights? The B12 had a 99 year commitment and to get out you needed to pay 2 years of revenue ($80M). So in reality they only paid $50M to leave a year early AND get out of the 99 year. They got off cheap.

ESPN would be $weetening the pot as incentive. If they wanted to, they could play hardball too. If two ACC teams leave for the SEC then they can still get 1/2 TV shares for their road games (same as they would make in the ACC). Their home games would be owned by the ACC who sold them to ESPN. So ESPN can chose to put FSU vs Miss State as the ACC Tier 1/2 game in a given week and relegate the actual ACC games. That would kill exposure for the ACC teams. So not only does the ACC not have more money, they have less TV slots.

Again if there is no mutual agreement this cannot happen. If there is a mutual agreement, there is no reason for a lawsuit is there?
“The 99 year commitment” is irrelevant. Lol. That isn’t a contract. Why do you keep mentioning that? Texas and OU are only able to leave ONE YEAR early on the GOR, even though they announced they were leaving several years ago. The Big 12 wasn’t gonna let them go so easily. The GOR is the ironclad agreement tying the conference schools together. Texas and OU could only afford to get out one year early, and Texas is the richest school of all. FSU and other ACC schools with wandering eyes can’t afford to get out of the GOR early, as Htown explains.
 
FSU and Clemson would deliver many ratings bonanza games like the FSU/LSU game if they were playing an SEC schedule. In the ACC there aren't any outside of them playing one another. So, they would be much more valuable to ESPN in the SEC.
not
 
“The 99 year commitment” is irrelevant. Lol. That isn’t a contract. Why do you keep mentioning that? Texas and OU are only able to leave ONE YEAR early on the GOR, even though they announced they were leaving several years ago. The Big 12 wasn’t gonna let them go so easily. The GOR is the ironclad agreement tying the conference schools together. Texas and OU could only afford to get out one year early, and Texas is the richest school of all. FSU and other ACC schools with wandering eyes can’t afford to get out of the GOR early, as Htown explains.
1. The B12 schools all agreed to the 99 year. You can look this up.

2. The B12 bylaws state any team leaving owes 2x revenue ($80M). You can easily look this up.

3. No one has reported that the $50M exit fee is all TV/GOR. You can also look this up. The 2x TV is internet folklore. Why are people spreading fake news?

4. The B12 had them on the hook for $80M each and a buyback for TV/GOR and settled for $50M.

5. The hold up in leaving early was FOX and not the B12. This can also be easily looked up.

6. The B12 sold the TV rights. They did not own them. ESPN and FOX did. As long as the TV contract didn’t decrease, the B12 could not claim damages or need compensation. This is also the case for the ACC Tier 1/2. The Tier 3 (ACCN) would require compensation though.

7. ESPN did not require compensation. This would be the case if an ACC team left for the SEC too.

8. FOX wanted compensation. Reportedly they took $10M per team for the half share that they owned. Which means a full share is $20M not $50M.

9. The settlement was was leaving the B12. Not just for leaving early. Not just for one year of TV rights. You can easily look this up. Saying otherwise is completely false.
 
“The 99 year commitment” is irrelevant. Lol. That isn’t a contract. Why do you keep mentioning that? Texas and OU are only able to leave ONE YEAR early on the GOR, even though they announced they were leaving several years ago. The Big 12 wasn’t gonna let them go so easily. The GOR is the ironclad agreement tying the conference schools together. Texas and OU could only afford to get out one year early, and Texas is the richest school of all. FSU and other ACC schools with wandering eyes can’t afford to get out of the GOR early, as Htown explains.
You should read this as it explains the issues OU and Texas were having with getting out:

 
I have not changed my argument. I have consistently stated that the exit fee is significant and most schools cannot or will not pay it outright, let alone buy back their rights. I have consistently opined that the ACC buyback is too long for a simple calculation, as you argue $250MM, or roughly 5 years when they have another 12 years following this season, or roughly $500-$600MM. When you use the OU and UT multiplier of 2.1, you end up at $1.050-$1.26BB.
There is no 2.1 multiplier for OU and Texas. Technically, they had to pay an $80MM exit fee per school as well as one year of media rights. They negotiated it down to $50MM total per school, covering the exit fee and media rights (including reversing the Texas home and home with Michigan to be at Michigan next year instead of at Texas- due to Fox wanting that). The Big12 did not have to negotiate the dollars down, especially to that level.

I do agree that the ACC schools looking to leave will have a huge amount that they would have to pay, though it would be an exit fee plus the media rights for the remainder of the contract. I don't think it would be near $1B though. More like half of that.
 
I can’t believe he replied. There was no reason to believe he’d write a follow up. I also can’t believe it’s just repeating the same things that have already been proven wrong, 20 pages ago and 10 pages ago, and the last page.
 
I can’t believe he replied. There was no reason to believe he’d write a follow up. I also can’t believe it’s just repeating the same things that have already been proven wrong, 20 pages ago and 10 pages ago, and the last page.
Give me one article. Should be easy as pie to prove me wrong. But you cannot. So sad you lose again.
 
It's Wednesday, September 7th and it's still entirely legal and feasible for Clemson or FSU to leave the ACC.

Did they?

Can we just set this up as a repeating post?

BTW, while you're answering the above, please note that ESPN/Disney are in a real fight with Charter/Spectrum.

There is no 7th-dimension chess with this. It's all on the table.
 
There is no 2.1 multiplier for OU and Texas. Technically, they had to pay an $80MM exit fee per school as well as one year of media rights. They negotiated it down to $50MM total per school, covering the exit fee and media rights (including reversing the Texas home and home with Michigan to be at Michigan next year instead of at Texas- due to Fox wanting that). The Big12 did not have to negotiate the dollars down, especially to that level.

I do agree that the ACC schools looking to leave will have a huge amount that they would have to pay, though it would be an exit fee plus the media rights for the remainder of the contract. I don't think it would be near $1B though. More like half of that.
As explained previously, OU and UT believes there 99 year commitment was not a valid contract. HRE agrees to this point and so does the article you linked in the previous post. As such, the exit was null and void. The cost of getting out was valued at more that two years ' TV revenue, thus the multiplier.

Note: the payout from TV rights does NOT include other monies paid out. Bowl money is earned each year and is not added. Hoops hoops tourney credits are not added as the conference receives those monies whether a team stays or goes unless the team is independent.

It does not matter how the money is "broken out". Since the teams argued the exit fee was bogus, the only substantive factor was TV revenue, which was roughly a little over $20MM/year at that time. If you prefer to argue the exit fee was valid, then shift money over to that column. Either way, you still get to double plus the TV revenue.

Don't be confused by cherry picking a writer's cherry picked comments. If OU and UT were willing to fight over the $80MM exit fee, they would have. OU and UT were willing to forego two years' TV money to get out one year early. Otherwise they could have waited one more year and forced the B12 to sue for the exit fee. Contractually, OU and UT were in the stronger position on the exit fee. What could NOT be ignored was the GOR.

If it is as easy as you and HRE believe please explain why it was not done? Further, explain why HRE and you want FSU out easily and on the cheap.

I have offered a valid explanation that is in line with prior facts. I have held all along that a deal is possible but other factors must fall in line before a deal can occur. I have posted ACC and ESPN perspective to oppose any bargain basement agreement put forth by FSU and others on this site.

Facts:
FSU floated a $300MM offer to leave. FSU believes the GOR is more solid that HRE and you believe
FSU lacks the money to pay the $300MM, let alone any larger amount
Clemson wants more money
UNC wants more money
It is probably safe to assume all remaining ACC schools want more money
The ACC deal was negotiated when ACC teams were down
ACC teams are improving
There remain look-ins for ESPN to evaluate the deel
The GOR is solid (which is the opposite of what HRE has argued all along)
The ACCN makes money for both the ACC and ESPN
ESPN has no incentive to destroy the ACCN
ESPN would have to increase its payouts to cover the FSU and any other team that moves to the SEC, a bad business move
If a team moves from the ACC, the door is opened for Fox and any others to pick apart the ACC.
The moment a team can break the GOR, all GOR are rendered useless
Neither ESPN nor Fox want GORs to be rendered useless
The ACC will be in a stronger position for bargaining with stronger teams going forward.
The ACC has a huge audience base, it is now the undisputed largest audience base.
ESPN is more likely to ensure the ACC has a decent deal (Hint: they ensured the ACC deal was better than the B1G 12's deal at the time it was made, many lauded it as a very good deal), why destroy a profit center, lose territory to a competitor and alienate a large portion of the population?
The ACC will make more money by waiting and improving it's product, consolidating it's fanbases and new markets in the mean time.

Please explain why you, HRE and others want FSU/Clemson/UNC to get out on the cheap. No one has proffered a valid basis for doing so. Many on here have asked and yet no one provides a valid response.
 
As explained previously, OU and UT believes there 99 year commitment was not a valid contract. HRE agrees to this point and so does the article you linked in the previous post. As such, the exit was null and void. The cost of getting out was valued at more that two years ' TV revenue, thus the multiplier.

Note: the payout from TV rights does NOT include other monies paid out. Bowl money is earned each year and is not added. Hoops hoops tourney credits are not added as the conference receives those monies whether a team stays or goes unless the team is independent.

It does not matter how the money is "broken out". Since the teams argued the exit fee was bogus, the only substantive factor was TV revenue, which was roughly a little over $20MM/year at that time. If you prefer to argue the exit fee was valid, then shift money over to that column. Either way, you still get to double plus the TV revenue.

Don't be confused by cherry picking a writer's cherry picked comments. If OU and UT were willing to fight over the $80MM exit fee, they would have. OU and UT were willing to forego two years' TV money to get out one year early. Otherwise they could have waited one more year and forced the B12 to sue for the exit fee. Contractually, OU and UT were in the stronger position on the exit fee. What could NOT be ignored was the GOR.

If it is as easy as you and HRE believe please explain why it was not done? Further, explain why HRE and you want FSU out easily and on the cheap.

I have offered a valid explanation that is in line with prior facts. I have held all along that a deal is possible but other factors must fall in line before a deal can occur. I have posted ACC and ESPN perspective to oppose any bargain basement agreement put forth by FSU and others on this site.

Facts:
FSU floated a $300MM offer to leave. FSU believes the GOR is more solid that HRE and you believe
FSU lacks the money to pay the $300MM, let alone any larger amount
Clemson wants more money
UNC wants more money
It is probably safe to assume all remaining ACC schools want more money
The ACC deal was negotiated when ACC teams were down
ACC teams are improving
There remain look-ins for ESPN to evaluate the deel
The GOR is solid (which is the opposite of what HRE has argued all along)
The ACCN makes money for both the ACC and ESPN
ESPN has no incentive to destroy the ACCN
ESPN would have to increase its payouts to cover the FSU and any other team that moves to the SEC, a bad business move
If a team moves from the ACC, the door is opened for Fox and any others to pick apart the ACC.
The moment a team can break the GOR, all GOR are rendered useless
Neither ESPN nor Fox want GORs to be rendered useless
The ACC will be in a stronger position for bargaining with stronger teams going forward.
The ACC has a huge audience base, it is now the undisputed largest audience base.
ESPN is more likely to ensure the ACC has a decent deal (Hint: they ensured the ACC deal was better than the B1G 12's deal at the time it was made, many lauded it as a very good deal), why destroy a profit center, lose territory to a competitor and alienate a large portion of the population?
The ACC will make more money by waiting and improving it's product, consolidating it's fanbases and new markets in the mean time.

Please explain why you, HRE and others want FSU/Clemson/UNC to get out on the cheap. No one has proffered a valid basis for doing so. Many on here have asked and yet no one provides a valid response.
You are putting words into others mouths. Neither I nor the other poster argued a single item you just wrote about. I NEVER argued the GOR was not valid. We will leave it at that.
 
It's Wednesday, September 7th and it's still entirely legal and feasible for Clemson or FSU to leave the ACC.

Did they?

Can we just set this up as a repeating post?

BTW, while you're answering the above, please note that ESPN/Disney are in a real fight with Charter/Spectrum.

There is no 7th-dimension chess with this. It's all on the table.

BTW, it's Thursday, September 7th.

;)
 
BTW, it's Thursday, September 7th.

;)
IMG_0799.jpeg
 
Give me one article. Should be easy as pie to prove me wrong. But you cannot. So sad you lose again.

I never mentioned you. How do you know I wasn’t referring to Htown with my post. Only if you are really just trolling would you assume my post was about you specifically. Thank you for owning up to it by replying.
 
The ACC fully believes that FSU and Clemson ARE going to leave the ACC

When? They’re not entirely sure of that yet, but it more than likely will happen.

The importance of adding SMU, Cal and Stanford was so that WHEN FSU and Clemson leave they are above the 15 team threshold in the GOR which means ESPN can NOT renegotiate the media package and give them less $$$$.

It’s not a matter of IF it’s a matter of WHEN regarding Clemson and FSU.

Will it be this next season or the season after that? Very unlikely.
 
If this article has been posted, apologies. But holy cow did SMU go hard. Long read, but very good.


Not to quote my own post too often, but it jumps off with:

'It's a couple hundred million dollars. I'm not losing sleep over it.'​


And goes UP from there.
 
Updating for the new ACC adds...

Avg by Conf
1. SEC 75,932
2. B18 62,957
3. B12 45,778
4. ACC 44,488
5. PAC 29,324

Interesting that the highest B12 team would be 4th in the ACC. But the B12 schools are all around the same which keeps the avg up.

Median
1. SEC 83,874
2. B18 56,764
3. B12 46,590
4. ACC 42,672
5. PAC 29,324

Interesting that the ACC median is closer to the B18 than the B18 is to the SEC.

SU is now #12 out of 17 in the ACC. The new adds are 11th, 14th, and 17th.
 

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