AEW Thread: A Real Alternative To WWE?

[Knicks411]

Jericho for sure one of the most versatile guys ever. That's probably his best GOAT attribute.

(I do think the Austin heel character in 01 was really good, but wrong place, wrong time)

 

[moqui]

Hot take: if AEW truly makes it both critically and commercially, Jericho will have an incredibly strong case for the G.O.A.T.

He and Bret Hart are already my personal Co-GOATs, but I understand why Hogan, Flair, Austin, and Rock are generally considered above them: largely a bigger impact on the masses.

But if a whole new wrestling promotion actually really succeeds in the era of a powerhouse WWE monopoly, and Jericho is the initial guy carrying the ball and getting the company over...GOAT!

what kind of time frame are you talking about? because jeff jarrett ran a successful counter promotion for 15 years, and a very successful one for the better part of a decade. but impact is what, 4th right now? behind wwe, aew and roh?

 

[KaiserUEO]

Getting even deeper into the GOAT case for Jericho IF AEW truly makes it...his versatility in terms of character work. Not even talking in ring performance, because even in some of his less successful(for him) character eras, Chris usually killed it in the ring. In particular, I remember him putting on phenomenal matches on Raw throughout his 2013 face, surprise Royal Rumble return Jericho era. That character wasn’t anything unique for him, though. He was basically popular because he came back out of nowhere and was face for the first time in awhile and was performing well. I’m sticking to strictly characters here...

Austin got one character that was truly over. To be fair it’s all he ever needed and possibly the GOAT character, but could he reinvent if he had to? Part of that was the character was just so big, but I also think it was the perfect fit for him and he can’t really do anything else. Podcast Steve isn’t all the different from Stone Cold. Podcast Chris - it’s clear that guy can do pretty much any character. Early 90s Stunning Steve was cool, but that’s like ECW Jericho or 2003-04 or 2012-14 WWE Jericho level which was good, but I’m not even mentioning that stuff as great character work for Chris.

Rock had his early NOD and branching out on his own deep voice, weird sideburns heel 97-99 era, his mega through the roof popular 00-02 face era, and Hollywood Rock(which was just insanely great stuff). I’ll give him 3.

Hogan had “Real American”(in the running with Stone Cold as the biggest thing ever) and “NWO” (in the running as the most unexpected and best heel run)

Ric Flair was always the exact same Ric Flair, he was just “face” when the southern WCW fans were feeling nostalgic, Bischoff was being a real life jerk, or he was old as dirt and the fans were appreciative and nostalgic.

I acknowledge that Chris never had one character as career defining as those guys’ best character...but he had more great ones than anybody and it’s really not close. And he really didn’t need to make this many transitions. He could still be cashing WWE nostalgia checks off of Y2J.

Only talking about Jericho’s characters that truly 100% hit their mark to the biggest extent that they could(because even in his “down periods” he did some great work at times):

1) Jericho had the whiny, ridiculous, conspiracy theory, troll before trolling was even officially a thing 98-99 WCW heel.

2) He had the rockstar Y2J face character(that was right on prime Austin and Rock’s ass in terms of popularity despite never getting anywhere close to the same push - and with the fans who wanted to be a little different and rock the boat just a little...he was their favorite).

3) He had snarky, “King of the World” two belts heel Jericho that held the WWF and WCW belts at the same time, and was the ultimate underhanded, coward with zero integrity or pride.

4) Underrated and IMO largely overlooked (and I’d be ok if someone said it wasn’t significant enough
to count), but summer 2005 heel “Fozzy Rock Star” Jericho that turned on Cena and helped legitimize him as the champion on Raw(after WWE called an audible and basically demoted their other new champion Batista to the B Brand), was really entertaining and effective as a main eventer after being completely de-pushed for like 2 years. He just stepped right up into the main spot like it was nothing. The guy got fired and made the security guards carry him out kicking and screaming after begging Bischoff to let him stay - and this was the guys freakin exit from his first run, for several years! Most guys gotta go out strong and getting cheers and Jericho went out as despicable as possible, lmao.

5) He had the “gelatinous tapeworm, hypocrite, parasite, do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth” slow talking, suit wearing Jericho(arguably the greatest heel of all time IMO).

6) He had “best in the world” , “Chris Jericho invented _______” that admittedly was probably a bit of a cross between 2008-10 suit Jericho and the more flamboyant 2001-02 and 2005 Jericho.

7) He had the “drink it in maaaaaaan”, “you just made the list!” 2016-17 Jericho and I’ll count it as one character even though he got it over as both a heel and a face.

8) And he got his current, crazy, face painting, “past his prime”(on purpose!! Being “washed” but insane and more dangerous than ever has actually been part of his character on purpose!) thank me, I want to hurt you “Le Champion”, “Bit of the bubbly” Jericho. And honestly, I might be doing a slight bit of dis-service by combining his New Japan and AEW personas. There’s not a ton of material to go on, but what’s there is phenomenal and can possibly be separated into different characters?

I don’t even know anymore. The guy just constantly evolves and kills it. And on the rare occasions when he hasn’t, he quickly recognizes the mistakes. Like - 2007 comeback face Jericho was lame and he quickly fixed it into probably his peak era.

I gave that a like because it was well done, but damn fin that wasn’t swc like in its detail and length!!

Might’ve been a little creepy too...

 

[OrangeDW]

what kind of time frame are you talking about? because jeff jarrett ran a successful counter promotion for 15 years, and a very successful one for the better part of a decade. but impact is what, 4th right now? behind wwe, aew and roh?

Was it really that successful?

I mean... I liked it from like 05-08 or so. And I know it had a brief era where it had ALL the names that weren’t in WWE, most of whom were very washed, but a couple who weren’t.

Was anyone watching? Feels like AEW is already bigger.

 

[Knicks411]

what kind of time frame are you talking about? because jeff jarrett ran a successful counter promotion for 15 years, and a very successful one for the better part of a decade. but impact is what, 4th right now? behind wwe, aew and roh?

I don't think they were that successful? From what I remember, they made money like one year. They were basically kept afloat by the Carter family. it is something (and honestly, whats more pro wrestling than convincing someone to pour more money into a money losing business) but I don't really think at any point TNA was in the same universe as WWE. And granted, AEW has run two tv shows, they're nowhere near that yet, but it sure seems more achievable.

Also: jarrett didn't really run the company for that long anyway. The Carter family bought it in like 2005? He did have some creative power on and off. But obviously Jericho will at no point be running AEW. So.

 

[OrangeDW]

I gave that a like because it was well done, but damn fin that wasn’t swc like in its detail and length!!

Might’ve been a little creepy too...

Haha. I didn’t realize how long that was until I looked at it after I posted it.

And to think in my early years I used to try to break SWC’s balls with a “nice book!” reply to his posts - to which he never once responded, lmao.

Also, that Jericho book that I wrote may have stirred a wrestlers=rappers comparison post coming to a H0T Takes section near you very soon.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't think they were that successful? From what I remember, they made money like one year. They were basically kept afloat by the Carter family. it is something (and honestly, whats more pro wrestling than convincing someone to pour more money into a money losing business) but I don't really think at any point TNA was in the same universe as WWE. And granted, AEW has run two tv shows, they're nowhere near that yet, but it sure seems more achievable.

From what I recall, TNA really tried to make a mainstream push when they brought in Hogan, Nash, and Hall aka “The Band” in 2010, Flair, and had Hardy, Sting, Angle, Steiner, Booker, Dudley’s, plus their homegrown guys like Joe, Styles, Daniels, Motor City Machine Guns(what happened to them?? They would KILL in AEW), Roode, and LAX? But all I remember was Jericho(lol!), doing a mocking Hogan hand to his ear on the first night of the supposed new, Monday Night Wars that never actually took off.

 

[OrangeDW]

MJF interview. Amazing stuff.

Random aside:

Guy I know and I guess would consider a friend at this point(really he’s close friend of a close friend), is a HUGE wrestling fan. Like, take my nerdy Jericho GOAT post from tonight and times it by 100.

He has a full beard, that often gets pretty bushy- that whole scene.

He walks by MJF at some wrestling meet and greet last year(not sure what event if was?) and MJF goes “hey neckbeard! Get over and give me $20.” I’m still cracking up off of that whenever I think of it.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Preliminary WWE Draft Pools announced

The preliminary pools for the WWE Draft designating which Superstars are eligible for selection on the upcoming episodes of Friday Night SmackDown and Raw have been announced.

www.wwe.com

WWE totally spoiled their draft. It's gone exactly in this order!

I thought that show totally sucked. After the Wednesday shows, the sameness of the WWE main roster really sticks out. I betcha this show lost viewers big-time throughout the night.

 

[Alsacs]

I love Jericho and see him as a top 10
all timer.
I wouldn’t put him in the league of Hogan, Austin, Flair, Undertaker, Michaels who would be my top 5.

I would put him in the top 10 with Rock, Hart, HHH, Cena.

 

[OrangeDW]

Watching Shelton Benjamin on Raw right now. I completely forgot he was in the company.(of course he lost)

Would love to see him in AEW. He’s been criminally misused for a long time in WWE, and while he’s definitely slowed down some - he’s still athletic and has the amateur wrestling back ground and can work solid matches.

 

[Alsacs]

Watching Shelton Benjamin on Raw right now. I completely forgot he was in the company.(of course he lost)

Would love to see him in AEW. He’s been criminally misused for a long time in WWE, and while he’s definitely slowed down some - he’s still athletic and has the amateur wrestling back ground and can work solid matches.

Mike Bennett just asked for his release
Tonight.
That guy would be awesome in AEW.

They completely misused him for 3 Years.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Mike Bennett just asked for his release
Tonight.
That guy would be awesome in AEW.

They completely misused him for 3 Years.

He also fell victim to Vince's obsession to ridicule certain performers. He's doing the same thing with Chad Gable right now, who would also look good in AEW.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Bischoff is gone from Smackdown and apparently completely gone from WWE, according to Dave Meltzer. Bruce Prichard, who is nothing if not a yes man, is the announced head of creative for Smackdown. Of course, we all know who the real head of creative is.

 

[OrangeDW]

Bischoff is gone from Smackdown and apparently completely gone from WWE, according to Dave Meltzer. Bruce Prichard, who is nothing if not a yes man, is the announced head of creative for Smackdown. Of course, we all know who the real head of creative is.

I’m amazed he was ever there in the first place, in 2019.

Guy hasn’t done squat since he jacked the NWO idea from Japan in ‘96.

 

[Knicks411]

The end of RAW last night was so bad

Mike Bennett just asked for his release
Tonight.
That guy would be awesome in AEW.

They completely misused him for 3 Years.

I don't think Mike Bennett is anything special at all. Not even just a guy.

 

[OrangeDW]

The end of RAW last night was so bad



I don't think Mike Bennett is anything special at all. Not even just a guy.

I was half paying attention and tired as hell. Did Rollins actually say “burn it down!”, before actually burning it down? Or did I imagine that?

Also I’m convinced: Wyatt sucks. I’m also not much of an Undertaker fan either though. All that stuff is too stupid to me.

Bennett has never impressed me much. The most i paid attention to him was this recent angle where Maria was constantly punking him. I can’t say it was “good” but I was honesty wondering where it was leading to.

 

[Symphony Steve]

I was half paying attention and tired as hell. Did Rollins actually say “burn it down!”, before actually burning it down? Or did I imagine that?

Also I’m convinced: Wyatt sucks. I’m also not much of an Undertaker fan either though. All that stuff is too stupid to me.

Bennett has never impressed me much. The most i paid attention to him was this recent angle where Maria was constantly punking him. I can’t say it was “good” but I was honesty wondering where it was leading to.

Something tells me that Wyatt's legacy will be somewhat less impressive than that of Big Red.

 

[OrangeDW]

Something tells me that Wyatt's legacy will be somewhat less impressive than that of Big Red.

To me his legacy is the Orton House of Horrors (was that it’s name?) match, and this recent Hell in the Cell monstrosity. Maybe not all his fault? But they always jump the shark with him and make it real stupid, real fast.

 

[OrangeDW]

Some wrestling fans get all butthurt about Bret being “bitter” but as far as I’m concerned...his stories have never changed and he ain’t the one for the BS. Respect!

 

[Knicks411]

To me his legacy is the Orton House of Horrors (was that it’s name?) match, and this recent Hell in the Cell monstrosity. Maybe not all his fault? But they always jump the shark with him and make it real stupid, real fast.

The last character got old real fast. I am (or was maybe) digging the new character, but the last few weeks, man, I dunno now.

Maybe you're right and they just can't resist going too far with the gimmick

 

[Alsacs]

I don’t know this because I can’t read the mind of Vince but they gave Wyatt the mandilla claw a la Mankind and made this new gimmick like he is a Jason or Freddy Kruger.

That chit isn’t going to last. Vince has the deepest roster he has ever had. He doesn’t even try to get people over or build feuds. He is all about the WWE brand and using that to make money with advertisers.
He doesn’t care.
It’s a joke.
AEW has a real chance. The ratings are sinking for Vince.
He is insistence to bringing in Tyus Fury and Cain Velasquez when wrestling fans don’t care about them insulting.
Does anyone care about Tyus Fury wrestle Brawn Strowman.

 

[Symphony Steve]

I don’t know this because I can’t read the mind of Vince but they gave Wyatt the mandilla claw a la Mankind and made this new gimmick like he is a Jason or Freddy Kruger.

That chit isn’t going to last. Vince has the deepest roster he has ever had. He doesn’t even try to get people over or build feuds. He is all about the WWE brand and using that to make money with advertisers.
He doesn’t care.
It’s a joke.
AEW has a real chance. The ratings are sinking for Vince.
He is insistence to bringing in Tyus Fury and Cain Velasquez when wrestling fans don’t care about them insulting.
Does anyone care about Tyus Fury wrestle Brawn Strowman.

All he can think of doing now is to 'hot-shot'. Which is what he's doing with Velazquez and Fury. It's not going to get better. Wednesday nights are now by far the best wrestling night of the week.

 

[Alsacs]

All he can think of doing now is to 'hot-shot'. Which is what he's doing with Velazquez and Fury. It's not going to get better. Wednesday nights are now by far the best wrestling night of the week.

It’s amazing how good JR and Schiavone are making these matches so good.

Cole and WWE commentators have to say what Vince feeds them in their headsets.
Vince just wants to bully and embarrass people.
This AEW commentary is all about the talent.

 

[OrangeDW]

It’s amazing how good JR and Schiavone are making these matches so good.

Cole and WWE commentators have to say what Vince feeds them in their headsets.
Vince just wants to bully and embarrass people.
This AEW commentary is all about the talent.

Yeah, I was just thinking that tonight. How I like the overall presentation of Dynamite better than Raw Or Smackdown, and the commentary is a huge reason why.