Class of 2015 All Talk Ratings, Rankings, and Stars

[anomander]

Thought it would be fun to start a separate thread where we could all discuss (and bitch) prospect ratings, and team rankings, without flooding the individual threads. Plus it may actually be fun since we are off to a good start and looking like we will be in the top 40 this year if all continues to go well.

Anyways Rivalz did their position rankings today, and Donte Davis received a 3star (5.6). Thought it was a little low just because Rivalz bases their ratings more on potential, and Davis is all about potential.

Conway was said to be a 3 star, but neither he, or the STA guys have been updated yet. When they are we will probably have a team ranking in the 40's or so.

247 is our highest team rating currently having us at 43 nationally, and 6th in the ACC, and that's without Davis being graded yet. You have to figure when he is we will be around 35 or so depending on his rating.

Skout finally rated both Fredericks and Perkins as 3 stars, making all of our rated prospects at least 3 stars. We are currently at 56th nationally, and if they ever get around to rating the STA guys, and Davis, who from all sounds of it should all receive 3 stars, you would have to think we will be hovering around 40th nationally there as well.

 

[Bambrewer]

Ok I'll start the bitching! First off the rating system is a joke. I don't know how many of you have been thru this or have kids gone thru this but the sites that do these ratings are ridiculous. I stood at a camp. Few weeks ago one of these sites puts on... I won't say any names but it could have been rivals. First thing is let me tell you they break these kids into defensive and offense positions then break em down to 10 per coach. This coach lived shy... Sang his praises all morning pulled him aside after to tell him how great he was and that he was the best physical specimen of a linebacker he has seen in years. Then we went down to the field where they had them all together running routes and covering. Shy got about 5 attempts at covering and the camp was over. Now I stood there and watched and I knew some of the big time recruits were there an who they were so when shy wasn't up I went and watched them. Let me tell you there was kids there much better than these 5 star recruits. This one kid... The poor college that gets stuck with this premadonna ( Alabama I hear) is in for it. This kid was pushing off on routes and giving up on passes. His defensive coverage is a penalty nightmare... He was knocking kids down as soon as the ball got in the air... Brutal. So after I go over and ask the coach that was working with shy all morning what type of grade shy would get and he says we as coaches aren't part of that... Somtimes they ask us but hardly ever. So then I wait to see him rated ( still waiting) nothing... So a few emails back and forth and they tell me he won't get rated till he gets an offer. What the hell does his ability have to so with an offer? No kid from the north east will ever get rated... That's not true there is a kid who got rated from mass. They gAve him 3 stars and a 30 in the country overall. This kid plays a week division and his stats are less than shys. He runs slower can't jump and was hurt a lot. But the coach knows a lot of college coaches and put out the word and the kid gets 4 offers and bang 3 stars. They know nothing of these kids. Ok done bitching

 

[wfschrec]

Ok I'll start the bitching! First off the rating system is a joke. I don't know how many of you have been thru this or have kids gone thru this but the sites that do these ratings are ridiculous. I stood at a camp. Few weeks ago one of these sites puts on... I won't say any names but it could have been rivals. First thing is let me tell you they break these kids into defensive and offense positions then break em down to 10 per coach. This coach lived shy... Sang his praises all morning pulled him aside after to tell him how great he was and that he was the best physical specimen of a linebacker he has seen in years. Then we went down to the field where they had them all together running routes and covering. Shy got about 5 attempts at covering and the camp was over. Now I stood there and watched and I knew some of the big time recruits were there an who they were so when shy wasn't up I went and watched them. Let me tell you there was kids there much better than these 5 star recruits. This one kid... The poor college that gets stuck with this premadonna ( Alabama I hear) is in for it. This kid was pushing off on routes and giving up on passes. His defensive coverage is a penalty nightmare... He was knocking kids down as soon as the ball got in the air... Brutal. So after I go over and ask the coach that was working with shy all morning what type of grade shy would get and he says we as coaches aren't part of that... Somtimes they ask us but hardly ever. So then I wait to see him rated ( still waiting) nothing... So a few emails back and forth and they tell me he won't get rated till he gets an offer. What the hell does his ability have to so with an offer? No kid from the north east will ever get rated... That's not true there is a kid who got rated from mass. They gAve him 3 stars and a 30 in the country overall. This kid plays a week division and his stats are less than shys. He runs slower can't jump and was hurt a lot. But the coach knows a lot of college coaches and put out the word and the kid gets 4 offers and bang 3 stars. They know nothing of these kids. Ok done bitching

Impossible ... it doesn't work like this ... bees says so.

 

[wfschrec]

Wait ... you probably don't know bees ... and I wasn't using my sarcasm font ... damn it.

 

[anomander]

Ok I'll start the bitching! First off the rating system is a joke. I don't know how many of you have been thru this or have kids gone thru this but the sites that do these ratings are ridiculous. I stood at a camp. Few weeks ago one of these sites puts on... I won't say any names but it could have been rivals. First thing is let me tell you they break these kids into defensive and offense positions then break em down to 10 per coach. This coach lived shy... Sang his praises all morning pulled him aside after to tell him how great he was and that he was the best physical specimen of a linebacker he has seen in years. Then we went down to the field where they had them all together running routes and covering. Shy got about 5 attempts at covering and the camp was over. Now I stood there and watched and I knew some of the big time recruits were there an who they were so when shy wasn't up I went and watched them. Let me tell you there was kids there much better than these 5 star recruits. This one kid... The poor college that gets stuck with this premadonna ( Alabama I hear) is in for it. This kid was pushing off on routes and giving up on passes. His defensive coverage is a penalty nightmare... He was knocking kids down as soon as the ball got in the air... Brutal. So after I go over and ask the coach that was working with shy all morning what type of grade shy would get and he says we as coaches aren't part of that... Somtimes they ask us but hardly ever. So then I wait to see him rated ( still waiting) nothing... So a few emails back and forth and they tell me he won't get rated till he gets an offer. What the hell does his ability have to so with an offer? No kid from the north east will ever get rated... That's not true there is a kid who got rated from mass. They gAve him 3 stars and a 30 in the country overall. This kid plays a week division and his stats are less than shys. He runs slower can't jump and was hurt a lot. But the coach knows a lot of college coaches and put out the word and the kid gets 4 offers and bang 3 stars. They know nothing of these kids. Ok done bitching

Preaching to the choir my man. hahah.

 

[wfschrec]

Preaching to the choir my man. hahah.

I swear I've heard this somewhere before ...

 

[anomander]

Well what do you know. Looks like the Bama offer woke someone up. Davis is now rated 3 star at 247, as well as Levine, moving us up to 32nd nationally.

 

[wfschrec]

Well what do you know. Looks like the Bama offer woke someone up. Davis is now rated 3 star at 247, as well as Levine, moving us up to 32nd nationally.

That is because they just reviewed the film damn it.

 

[money3189]

Has anyone looked at Rutgers OG commit Zach Venesky out of PA? He is ranked # 52 guard in the country. His highlights are average at best, Byrne and Clausman film look way better. Just saying

 

[TheCusian]

Ok I'll start the bitching! First off the rating system is a joke. I don't know how many of you have been thru this or have kids gone thru this but the sites that do these ratings are ridiculous. I stood at a camp. Few weeks ago one of these sites puts on... I won't say any names but it could have been rivals. First thing is let me tell you they break these kids into defensive and offense positions then break em down to 10 per coach. This coach lived shy... Sang his praises all morning pulled him aside after to tell him how great he was and that he was the best physical specimen of a linebacker he has seen in years. Then we went down to the field where they had them all together running routes and covering. Shy got about 5 attempts at covering and the camp was over. Now I stood there and watched and I knew some of the big time recruits were there an who they were so when shy wasn't up I went and watched them. Let me tell you there was kids there much better than these 5 star recruits. This one kid... The poor college that gets stuck with this premadonna ( Alabama I hear) is in for it. This kid was pushing off on routes and giving up on passes. His defensive coverage is a penalty nightmare... He was knocking kids down as soon as the ball got in the air... Brutal. So after I go over and ask the coach that was working with shy all morning what type of grade shy would get and he says we as coaches aren't part of that... Somtimes they ask us but hardly ever. So then I wait to see him rated ( still waiting) nothing... So a few emails back and forth and they tell me he won't get rated till he gets an offer. What the hell does his ability have to so with an offer? No kid from the north east will ever get rated... That's not true there is a kid who got rated from mass. They gAve him 3 stars and a 30 in the country overall. This kid plays a week division and his stats are less than shys. He runs slower can't jump and was hurt a lot. But the coach knows a lot of college coaches and put out the word and the kid gets 4 offers and bang 3 stars. They know nothing of these kids. Ok done bitching

This should be referenced anytime the stars debate pops up (which is all the time). Thanks for the first hand account!

 

[CuseOnly]

Ok I'll start the bitching! First off the rating system is a joke. I don't know how many of you have been thru this or have kids gone thru this but the sites that do these ratings are ridiculous. I stood at a camp. Few weeks ago one of these sites puts on... I won't say any names but it could have been rivals. First thing is let me tell you they break these kids into defensive and offense positions then break em down to 10 per coach. This coach lived shy... Sang his praises all morning pulled him aside after to tell him how great he was and that he was the best physical specimen of a linebacker he has seen in years. Then we went down to the field where they had them all together running routes and covering. Shy got about 5 attempts at covering and the camp was over. Now I stood there and watched and I knew some of the big time recruits were there an who they were so when shy wasn't up I went and watched them. Let me tell you there was kids there much better than these 5 star recruits. This one kid... The poor college that gets stuck with this premadonna ( Alabama I hear) is in for it. This kid was pushing off on routes and giving up on passes. His defensive coverage is a penalty nightmare... He was knocking kids down as soon as the ball got in the air... Brutal. So after I go over and ask the coach that was working with shy all morning what type of grade shy would get and he says we as coaches aren't part of that... Somtimes they ask us but hardly ever. So then I wait to see him rated ( still waiting) nothing... So a few emails back and forth and they tell me he won't get rated till he gets an offer. What the hell does his ability have to so with an offer? No kid from the north east will ever get rated... That's not true there is a kid who got rated from mass. They gAve him 3 stars and a 30 in the country overall. This kid plays a week division and his stats are less than shys. He runs slower can't jump and was hurt a lot. But the coach knows a lot of college coaches and put out the word and the kid gets 4 offers and bang 3 stars. They know nothing of these kids. Ok done bitching

I have always said the star system was a joke, but I was always told that my assumption as to how it worked was not true. I appreciate the confirmation that I was right all along. Thank you!

 

[rrlbees]

I have always said the star system was a joke, but I was always told that my assumption as to how it worked was not true. I appreciate the confirmation that I was right all along. Thank you!

Bambrewers post really doesn't have anything to do with how the process works. So you're still wrong. He mainly talked about his opinion of players vs others opinions.

 

[CuseOnly]

Bambrewers post really doesn't have anything to do with how the process works. So you're still wrong. He mainly talked about his opinion of players vs others opinions.

He explained the process plenty when he said the coaches in the breakout sessions were rarely asked anything. Was enough for me, tells me that a bunch of writers were making player evals without asking the people who were coaching them and putting them through the drills. Also tells me that not evaluating a player until he got an offer was a joke.

If a kid is good, you rate him as good whether he has an offer or not. The whole point of attending a camp is exposure and evaluation. If a kid pays to go to a camp, performs well, you rate him based on his performance not when a school offers him 6 months later as an afterthought and you have to go back and watch tape of his camp.

Total joke.

 

[CuseOnly]

How about this scenario.

Kid goes to a camp, performs really well... outperforms some kids that are rated 3-4-5 stars. Feels really good about himself, thinks...boy I did really well, I think I might get some offers after this performance.

Walks up to the position coaches and says "coach, how did I do?".
Position coach says "I thought you did really well, nice job".

Kid goes up to the "evaluators" and says "How did I do, what rating did I get?"
Evaluator says "sorry kid, can't rate you until you get an offer".

Rubs his head and send him on his way.

Sounds like a great system.

 

[rrlbees]

He explained the process plenty when he said the coaches in the breakout sessions were rarely asked anything. Was enough for me, tells me that a bunch of writers were making player evals without asking the people who were coaching them and putting them through the drills. Also tells me that not evaluating a player until he got an offer was a joke. If a kid is good, you rate him as good whether he has an offer or not. The whole point of attending a camp is exposure and evaluation. If a kid pays to go to a camp, performs well, you rate him based on his performance not when a school offers him 6 months later as an afterthought and you have to go back and watch tape of his camp. Total joke.

The coaches might be consulted but they don't give out rankings or stars. They don't even work for the sites. And it's not writers doing the evaluations. Just because someone writes an article doesn't mean they can't evaluate talent. And most of the writers don't evaluated anything. And if they had to evaluate every kid they would never get anywhere. There are 1,000s that don't ever get any offer.

The system is far from perfect. Far. Coaches are much better. Nobody ever said differently. But it's not as bad as some of you think. Amazing that I worked with those people when we were at those 2 sites yet you're the expert based on cherry picking.

 

[rrlbees]

How about this scenario. Kid goes to a camp, performs really well... outperforms some kids that are rated 3-4-5 stars. Feels really good about himself, thinks...boy I did really well, I think I might get some offers after this performance. Walks up to the position coaches and says "coach, how did I do?". Position coach says "I thought you did really well, nice job". Kid goes up to the "evaluators" and says "How did I do, what rating did I get?" Evaluator says "sorry kid, can't rate you until you get an offer". Rubs his head and send him on his way. Sounds like a great system.

That's exactly how it works! Ratings aren't done on the spot offer or not.

 

[CuseOnly]

I wonder and question how and why you are the only staunch defender of the star system on any website I have ever been on. Nobody defends it like you.

Even knowing it is ridiculously flawed.

 

[rrlbees]

I wonder and question how and why you are the only staunch defender of the star system on any website I have ever been on. Nobody defends it like you. Even knowing it is ridiculously flawed.

I'm not as much defending it as I am disagreeing with incorrect perceptions and comments.

 

[Bambrewer]

Ok look at it this way. My son has no stars on rivals today he has been to camp and was raved about by his session coach. That guy went out of his way to find my son and tell him he was great after the session. My son has umass unh Umaine Rutgers Uconn mid conn Delaware nebraska Perdue and Miami talking to him about how his film looks great his high school coach
Says he is great. They come meet him and are amazed by his size and him as a person. Ncu has him 4 th in the state. Espn had him all state linebacker... Now if tomorrow miami offers him he becomes a better prospect? Or better yet kids that have 2 stars get an offer from a bigger school and become 3 or 4 stars. How has that improved the player. It's more of a ranking system of who has been seen by a college than a rating of players ability.

 

[CuseOnly]

I'm not as much defending it as I am disagreeing with incorrect perceptions and comments.

So far, every perception and assumption has been right on and confirmed as well as agreed to by about 99% of people who have been involved in the process, parents, recruits and other board members.

Remember...perception is reality. When I see a 2 start kid get an offer from Alabama and he jumps to a 4 or 5, that is all the confirmation that I need that the system is a joke.

Defend away.

 

[wfschrec]

That's exactly how it works! Ratings aren't done on the spot offer or not.

So lets ignore the fact that Davis gets an offer and then immediately becomes a 3 star, is that what you are saying?

 

[oldpinepoint]

Only thing I know about the rankings is that I don't pay attention to them. Trust the coaches, their evaluations and their relationships. The ranking crap will work itself out if the coaches do what we all think they can do.

 

[Bambrewer]

I mean it's hard to look at a kid and put a number on him... Did he have a good camp was it a bad day was that his best day? So outside factors have to come in and it should be weighted more to a coaches opinion film and stats. I think the fact that a school has interest should be a small factor. After all it's another set of eyes and ears that have been on a kid and a big school showing interest means another evaluator saw value in the player. It's just to much of the process is a coach knowing someone and saying look at this kid and not enough of actual play evaluation.

 

[Upstate]

So lets ignore the fact that Davis gets an offer and then immediately becomes a 3 star, is that what you are saying?

I think it's more that the offer brings more attention to the athlete to be analyzed. If he's not rated/not evaluated, and the kid confirms an offer from "the most prestigious team of the 2010s", it probably just garners the attention from the evaluators to finally look at his film.

 

[wfschrec]

I think it's more that the offer brings more attention to the athlete to be analyzed. If he's not rated/not evaluated, and the kid confirms an offer from "the most prestigious team of the 2010s", it probably just garners the attention from the evaluators to finally look at his film.

Ok .. so then how can you determine if a kid is a top 100 or even top 300 player then? And FWIW if that were the case any athlete that we have offered should go direct to a 2 star and then get evaluated but that doesn't happen does it? An athlete has to receive an offer from a specific institution and that is the point that has been made over and over again but for whatever reason people feel the need to defend the recruitnicks ... it is what it is.