Class of 2015 All Talk Ratings, Rankings, and Stars

[TheCusian]

I think we're looking for process and stuff that makes sense - when the whole thing is more of a wild west, every situation is different kind of thing. Both Shy's Dad and Bees can be right - it probably varies from kid to kid, region to region, service to service.

 

[rrlbees]

So far, every perception and assumption has been right on and confirmed as well as agreed to by about 99% of people who have been involved in the process, parents, recruits and other board members.

Remember...perception is reality. When I see a 2 start kid get an offer from Alabama and he jumps to a 4 or 5, that is all the confirmation that I need that the system is a joke.

Defend away.

Embellish much?

I'm done because it really doesn't matter. After almost 10 years, I know what the process is and nobody has ever said it is perfect.

Make sure you don't get all excited when we get a 4 star player.

 

[Bambrewer]

I think it's more that the offer brings more attention to the athlete to be analyzed. If he's not rated/not evaluated, and the kid confirms an offer from "the most prestigious team of the 2010s", it probably just garners the attention from the evaluators to finally look at his film.

I think that would be like a service that rates hotels. Giving a rating based off what the management told them about a hotel. Then when a customer gives a review saying they are better or worse than the service review going to see the hotel for themselves. Then if more people saying the hotel was better or worse changing their rating to match the non professional opinion... What would the rating service ever be worth?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I believe, even though by and large the star system is inconsistent and outright farcical at times, that the star system does have value because it aggregates data. It's flawed, but if the flaws occur consistently you can get a rough idea of where a class of kids for a school stands in comparison to another school's class.

So, it's probably really, really bad at evaluating individual kids outside of the top 200 that don't just jump out as athletic oddities/high potential players, and you want to take the star system's stance on any individual players rating relative to any other individual player with a huge grain of salt like Bambrewer is saying. But a class ranked in the teens is pretty likely objectively better than a class ranked in the 30s.

Even if it's a perception thing (Notre Dame always has highly rated players and classes because it's Notre Dame) that has value too. As our program's credibility is restored our class rankings have also improved. I have no doubt it's because little by little we're getting better players, but it probably is at least in some part due to the improved perception of our program.

In closing, the star system isn't a precision instrument, but it's generally pretty good at evaluating collections of players.

 

[tep624]

In closing, the star system isn't a precision instrument, but it's generally pretty good at evaluating collections of players.

I would argue it's not even good at that save for about 15-20 schools, and that's basically because the ranking sites are banking on the staff's at those schools' ability to evaluate talent. And the danger in those 15-20 schools is the "what if" scenario if they start to tail off as far as success is concerned or have staff turnover. This was the case with Notre Dame in the early 2000's - their recruiting classes were getting really high grades but weren't developing into a whole hell of a lot, and people started to question whether the kids really were even that good or if they were just not being developed at ND. There is nothing that anyone can say here that will lead me to believe that the reputations of the schools offering has no impact on star ratings, grades and position rankings, whether it's a 5 star recruit or a NR recruit. That may be the "policy", but policy does not dictate what the current state is, actions do, and everytime we see a kid jump in the rankings immediately after he gets a big offer, it reinforces the fact that the schools involved weigh in the evaluation and they shouldn't.

Any school that has a majority of recruits that fall into the NR-3 star range - the system is extremely flawed. And that makes up probably every recruiting class outside of the top 40 in a given year.

 

[CIL]

The issue that no one talks about are that ratings are being applied by guys like Brian Dohn, who has no football background to speak of. He was a beat writer for UCLA, then a site publisher for RU. It's like having Nate Mink hand out stars to kid. It's a really silly and stupid way to do things IMO.

Mike Mcallister on $cout was a poster here. Nice guy, works hard. But if he starts handing out stars I'm going to lose my sshit.

 

[JackBauer44]

The issue that no one talks about are that ratings are being applied by guys like Brian Dohn, who has no football background to speak of. He was a beat writer for UCLA, then a site publisher for RU. It's like having Nate Mink hand out stars to kid. It's a really silly and stupid way to do things IMO.

on $cout was a poster here. Nice guy, works hard. But if he starts handing out stars I'm going to lose my sshit.

Listening to him try and explain strength and weaknesses of players is horrible. He repeats the same stance on pretty much every prospect.

 

[Rocco]

Much more interested in hearing the coaching staff's opinions of a kid than any of the sites.

I used to get worked up over the "star system", but realized it will never change and is clearly skewed to sites with large subscription bases.

Getting kids that fit our system is WAY more important than anything.

 

[anomander]

Only thing I know about the rankings is that I don't pay attention to them. Trust the coaches, their evaluations and their relationships. The ranking crap will work itself out if the coaches do what we all think they can do.

While this is true I still think the whole thing has some value. I want to see Syracuse ranked in the top 30 in overall class ranking. We are in desperate need of an upgrade to our perception, and having a top 30 or 40 class will do that. Right now we should want the label as an up and coming program. Anything to get people talking about us in a positive light is good for us. Just how we see how our program perceived it's the same for these kids. And don't think these kids aren't on these recruiting websites checking out their ratings, and the ratings of kids they could potentially be playing with. Think about it. If you were a 4 star recruit do you want to go to a school with all 2 star kids, or do you want to go somewhere with a bunch of 3 stars, and a couple 4's? Now how those ratings are made well that's up for debate, but once those stars are slapped next to a kid's name they have value.

Plus it's fun to talk about.

 

[anomander]

With Conway receiving 3 star (5.5), which should have been 5.6, but whatever, it brings us up to #50 at Rivals with Clausman still to be rated. Pretty big discrepancy from the rest of the sites, but that's no surprise.

At skout we are still at 56, but none of our So Florida kids have been graded. Not sure when they will get around to that, but they need to get it done already. Dohn updated Rutgers per request 3 weeks ago now. There is no reason those guys shouldn't be done by now unless they aren't to be updated this time around.

ESPN hasn't rated any of our kids, but when they get done looks like Clausman will be highest rated, and Davis 2nd to last...go figure.

 

[money3189]

While this is true I still think the whole thing has some value. I want to see Syracuse ranked in the top 30 in overall class ranking. We are in desperate need an upgrade in our perception, and having a top 30 or 40 class will do that. Right now we should want the label as an up and coming program. Having a solid class ranking will do that. Anything to get people talking about us in a positive light is good for us. Just how we see how our program is perceived it's the same for these kids. And don't think these kids aren't on these recruiting websites checking out their ratings, and the ratings of kids they could potentially be playing with. Think about it. If you were a 4 star recruit do you want to go to a school with all 2 star kids, or do you want to go somewhere with a bunch of 3 stars, and a couple 4's? Now how those ratings are made that's up for debate, but once they are slapped next to a kid's name they have value.

Plus it's fun to talk about.

exactly. We all agree that its about coaching and developing players in your system. We see 2 star kids get drafted every year in the NFL. Those players have a chip on their shoulders and they outwork other players who were ranked higher coming out of high school. Those are the players we normally bring in at Cuse. Rankings does alot for perception. Thats the only reason why I care about them. We all know the star system is flawed.

 

[blizz]

Anyone in the know (certainly barking at you bees) riddle me this: besides subscriptions and advertising what are the revenue streams to the major recruiting services and how significant are each of these? In the spirit of full disclosure...I'm trying to make a point...

 

[kcsu]

leads

 

[anomander]

Well Skout finally rated our Florida prospects and to no surprise Cuse commits get the shaft once again. Byrne, Clausman and Levine all given 2 stars, and Davis gets 3 stars and the #56 rated CB.

That was only good enough to move us up 6 spots in the national rankings to #50 in the country.

 

[AAM62]

Well Skout finally rated our Florida prospects and to no surprise Cuse commits get the shaft once again. Byrne, Clausman and Levine all given 2 stars, and Davis gets 3 stars and the #56 rated CB.

That was only good enough to move us up 6 spots in the national rankings to #50 in the country.

LOL...whatever

 

[javadoc]

Well Skout finally rated our Florida prospects and to no surprise Cuse commits get the shaft once again. Byrne, Clausman and Levine all given 2 stars, and Davis gets 3 stars and the #56 rated CB.

That was only good enough to move us up 6 spots in the national rankings to #50 in the country.

Someone better get on the phone to Alabama and Ohio State and let them know they are pursuing the #56 CB! The shame!

 

[rrlbees]

Well Skout finally rated our Florida prospects and to no surprise Cuse commits get the shaft once again. Byrne, Clausman and Levine all given 2 stars, and Davis gets 3 stars and the #56 rated CB. That was only good enough to move us up 6 spots in the national rankings to #50 in the country.

In what way did we get the shaft?

 

[DownTheField]

In what way did we get the shaft?

You've been telling us for years that R1vals and Scot aren't biased and that they're not unfair to smaller schools or schools with fewer subscribers. Will you tell us why they are fair and unbiased?

 

[SUFan44]

The coaches might be consulted but they don't give out rankings or stars. They don't even work for the sites. And it's not writers doing the evaluations. Just because someone writes an article doesn't mean they can't evaluate talent. And most of the writers don't evaluated anything. And if they had to evaluate every kid they would never get anywhere. There are 1,000s that don't ever get any offer.

The system is far from perfect. Far. Coaches are much better. Nobody ever said differently. But it's not as bad as some of you think. Amazing that I worked with those people when we were at those 2 sites yet you're the expert based on cherry picking.

Who evaluates the kids then?

 

[CuseOnly]

You've been telling us for years that R1vals and Scot aren't biased and that they're not unfair to smaller schools or schools with fewer subscribers. Will you tell us why they are fair and unbiased?

I think it is ridiculous in and of itself that a kid.

1. Gets invited to a camp
2. Pays money for said camp
3. pays for all his own travel and accommodations for said camp
4. competes against the best
5. Doesn't get rated because he doesn't have an offer which has nothing to do with his ability or the camp he just went to to get rated in the first place to get an offer.

Basically it's a giant waste of time for a ton of kids that will never get rated unless they already have a name. Regardless of their actual ability to play and perform.

So in other words, a kid with more natural ability and being better than every other kid at every camp could conceivablynnot get rated and get a scholarship even though he is the best athlete and player. Totally a ridiculous system.

 

[anomander]

In what way did we get the shaft?

Contradicting evaluations from some of their regional guys. Hell Dohn found a way to give John Phillips 3stars. If you watch his tape and watch the tape of Byrne and Clausman and think he is better then those 2 then that is getting the shaft.

 

[wfschrec]

Contradicting evaluations from some of their regional guys. Hell Dohn found a way to give John Phillips 3stars. If you watch his tape and watch the tape of Byrne and Clausman and think he is better then those 2 then that is getting the shaft.

And that is without evening taking into account the level of competition.

 

[TheCusian]

And that is without evening taking into account the level of competition.

Or watching them play.

 

[wfschrec]

Or watching them play.

Whoa lets not get ahead of ourselves here ...

 

[TheCusian]

Whoa lets not get ahead of ourselves here ...

Sarcasm alert.