all the main guys contributed | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

all the main guys contributed

Cowtown said:
He obviously wasn't good, but he wasn't that bad.
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I mean all those things I wrote are true. I may be mildly exagerating how bad he was in a vacuum, but it is hard to deny that we win that game with a half decent PG tonight. That is why I am so mad. Game was soo close, and he did so many dumb things, any one of which could have been the difference.
 
I can deal with a rough shooting night but there were several 50-50 balls he wasn't getting to. He was loose with the ball and lax when it was time to fire it up and move. He didn't nearly match the energy that was on the other side of the ball or that of his teammates. Overall he produced more this season than I expected but it was showtime tonight and he wasn't fully there.
 
billsin01 said:
Odd statement considering this team just reached its potential this season. Not sure what you were expecting ...
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JUST STOP IT. He led us to 14 losses. He's no more a PG than Andre Hawkins. STOP THE NONSENSE. He runs a fastbreak like Wilt Chamberlain. And he was awful as often as he was great.
 
Mano22 said:
I think most of were expecting Frank to play a reasonable game of basketball.
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They reached their potential this year. Not a soul on here could argue otherwise. Frank’s not an ideal PG. I get it. But this team literally reached or exceeded its potential.
 
ORRange said:
JUST STOP IT. He led us to 14 losses. He's no more a PG than Andre Hawkins. STOP THE NONSENSE. He runs a fastbreak like Wilt Chamberlain. And he was awful as often as he was great.
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What do you think this team’s record should have been? I mean, if the argument is that we would have been better with some other pretty good point guard, fine. But based on our roster and injuries, what should we have been this year?
 
Mano22 said:
I mean all those things I wrote are true. I may be mildly exagerating how bad he was in a vacuum, but it is hard to deny that we win that game with a half decent PG tonight. That is why I am so mad. Game was soo close, and he did so many dumb things, any one of which could have been the difference.
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I'm not going to argue against that. He's certainly a work in progress. He was good in easier games, and needs to be better in tough ones. I'm hoping this season helps get him there. :)
 
ORRange said:
JUST STOP IT. He led us to 14 losses. He's no more a PG than Andre Hawkins. STOP THE NONSENSE. He runs a fastbreak like Wilt Chamberlain. And he was awful as often as he was great.
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And your alternative is ... ?
 
Mano22 said:
I mean all those things I wrote are true. I may be mildly exagerating how bad he was in a vacuum, but it is hard to deny that we win that game with a half decent PG tonight. That is why I am so mad. Game was soo close, and he did so many dumb things, any one of which could have been the difference.
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did you like his 5 assts? his 8 rebs? he had 3 turnovers of 16. what did you think of the other 13? did you like the fact duke shot like garbage from3 and like jb said, it was our defense. were you happy with that?
 
Cowtown said:
And your alternative is ... ?
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There isn't one. JB loves his upperclassmen. I want to vomit thinking he will lead our team next year. More 50 point games with no fastbreak.
 
billsin01 said:
They reached their potential this year. Not a soul on here could argue otherwise. Frank’s not an ideal PG. I get it. But this team literally reached or exceeded its potential.
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Never said we didnt. We clearly overperformed as a team, as we are not one of the 16 best teams in the country. Def reahed our potential and then some.
rrlbees said:
did you like his 5 assts? his 8 rebs? he had 3 turnovers of 16. what did you think of the other 13? did you like the fact duke shot like garbage from3 and like jb said, it was our defense. were you happy with that?
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-His assists were mostly just passing to Oshae and Doj and watching them make a move/shot. Didn't really create a ton himself.
-His rebs were fine sure.
-His 3 TO seem low, as he threw 3 oops into the stands, maybe 4? I wonder if some of those TO's got assigned to others. Also his early oops to Chuk were bad decisions too, Chuk just made amazing plays on them.
-His defense was medium at best. Multiple times he did not run out and left wide open 3's for Allen and Trent.
-Our defense overall was pretty good of course. But some of those late 3's were WIDE open. Allen does't miss those often.

I don't get the Howard bashing bashing. If you wanna argue that he is just a kid playing a game and we should lay off, sure. I can buy that. But if you wanna argue that the bashers are wrong and he played a good game of basketball, well no, that will not fly.

Part of it I guess is his mistakes were SO bad and so obvious and this game was so surprisingly close that it hurts a lot.

Even if you ignore all the other stuff, if just does not make those 3-4 atrocious alley-oops we probably win that game. Just crazy to make decisions like that as a junior on a stage like this.
 
What's that have to do with frank not being equipped to run the Syracuse offense that I've watched for 40 years ? I'M SERIOUS? Do you like the way he plays? You think it'll change next year?
 
ORRange said:
What's that have to do with frank not being equipped to run the Syracuse offense that I've watched for 40 years ? I'M SERIOUS? Do you like the way he plays? You think it'll change next year?
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Players never improve as seniors. There’s no evidence of that in this program. Good argument.
 
rrlbees said:
did you like his 5 assts? his 8 rebs? he had 3 turnovers of 16. what did you think of the other 13? did you like the fact duke shot like garbage from3 and like jb said, it was our defense. were you happy with that?
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I'm not annoyed with Frank. A little disappointed, OK. Not a big deal. The guy who said he "mailed it in" is just wrong. Maybe it's just me, but I was pretty pleased with the effort in this NCAA run. The whole team played up, some more than others, Yes, I wish Frank had been better, but it's like someone mentioned in another thread, it was his first year with his hand on the rudder. For while the regular season was frustrating, there was considerable growth. It's not like we didn't all know this might be a lean year. I hope Tyus comes back, but we've been through all this before.
 
billsin01 said:
Players never improve as seniors. There’s no evidence of that in this program. Good argument.
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Laz Simms says "Hi there!" :) And I know there are others (Watkins ...) but it's late and there were some good beers with the good hoops tonight :)
 
billsin01 said:
Im pretty sure no game is decided by one player who put up a line of 6 pts, 6 assists, and 8 rebs with 3 TOs on 1-of-6 shooting. Not a great game but there were a few different factors ... if you watched the game.
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Yeah, but you can't just look at those stats in a vacuum. For instance, he may of only had 3 turnovers, but they come at crucial moments or lead to fast break points, etc. for the opponent. Moreover, I just don't think Frank has good situational awareness and court savviness. Those alley oop attempts he made tonight were very poor decisions when you look at when they occurred. It can have an ill effect on momentum as well. Just like it did in that TCU game at the end of the first half when we had the ball up 3 and could hold for the last shot. He tried a half court alley oop that turned into a fast break for them...somehow in that game we ended up being down one at the half, which was quite hard to fathom considering the circumstances when we were just up 3 with the ball and 25 seconds left...
 
Frank and Marek swapped stat lines last night. There were a number of big plays (MDs first foul ended up the biggest IMHO). Plenty of times I said that's the one we won't recover from, but we did. This team fought all night and I think fatigue showed on missed FTs and losing the 50-50 balls.
 
I LOVE this time of year!!! A fresh crop of posters to put on IGNORE.
 
orangecuse said:
Yeah, but you can't just look at those stats in a vacuum. For instance, he may of only had 3 turnovers, but they come at crucial moments or lead to fast break points, etc. for the opponent. Moreover, I just don't think Frank has good situational awareness and court savviness. Those alley oop attempts he made tonight were very poor decisions when you look at when they occurred. It can have an ill effect on momentum as well. Just like it did in that TCU game at the end of the first half when we had the ball up 3 and could hold for the last shot. He tried a half court alley oop that turned into a fast break for them...somehow in that game we ended up being down one at the half, which was quite hard to fathom considering the circumstances when we were just up 3 with the ball and 25 seconds left...
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Frank’s decision-making and facilitating aren’t ideal and need improvement. No doubt. There are just so many factors it seems odd to lay it all at frank’s feet. Mateo played an excellent game but I’d argue the awful foul in the backcourt and his pass directly to a duke defender early were big plays in this game as well. Oshae plays the first half as well as he does in the second, we’re still playing. There’s just a bunch of factors, IMO.
 
billsin01 said:
Frank’s decision-making and facilitating aren’t ideal and need improvement. No doubt. There are just so many factors it seems odd to lay it all at frank’s feet. Mateo played an excellent game but I’d argue the awful foul in the backcourt and his pass directly to a duke defender early were big plays in this game as well. Oshae plays the first half as well as he does in the second, we’re still playing. There’s just a bunch of factors, IMO.
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Marek's pass you're referring to (I believe) came when the score was 0-0, so it wasn't at a critical moment in the game, and, I think he followed it up on the next offensive set with a put back dunk giving us our first two points of the game, although I hear ya. Marek is also a frosh, whereas Frank is a junior, and as the point guard, supposed to be the leader and 'floor general,' so a higher standard is held, similar to a QB's command. They do sometimes reference a point guard too as the QB of the team...setting the tone.
 
On ANY 4 point loss, it is easy to pick 2 or 3 plays by ANY player that could be said to make a difference. Wether the game is 0-0 or 64-60. Everyplay counts
 
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