All Time SU Roster(s)

[Shark58]

with the recent loss of an all time Orange great, a few friends and I have been tossing around (again) the perfect all-time 12 man SU roster. the goal is both greatness and balance. as complete a roster as you can create, using players from the heights of their respective years. I also limited mine to players I saw play. You don't have to. if you want to throw a championship winning center like Joe Schwartzer on your squad, more power to you.

I'm going with:

starting 5:

1-Pearl
2-Bing
3-Melo
4-Coleman
5- Bouie

Off the bench:

1- Sherm
2- Moten
2/3- Owens
2/3- Stevie
3/4- Wallace
4/5- Etan
5- Seikaly


~~~

now the fun part: who's your next level team?

S: Flynn, Dion, Wes, Orr, AO
B: MCW, GMac, Devo, Raf, CJ. Rak, Bad Melo w/ Andy and g just missing the cut

 

[General20]

Depends on which version of Boeheim is coaching the team. If we are talking 75-95 man to man Boeheim, I'd take Sherm as the point. If we are talking 96-16 all zone Boeheim I wouldn't.

I'm going to pick the modern Boeheim, because I think he's a better coach now than he was then.

Going with that, Ill take.

PG: Gbinije
SG: Rautins
SF: Johnson
PF: Owens
C: Coleman

This is not the most talented team, and is arguably is missing SU's 3 best players (Pearl, Douglas, Anthony). But I think it might be the best team. Its got great length at each position, an A+ defender at each position. On offense, There are 3 great shooters who will space the floor and allow Owens and Coleman to absolutely dominate inside (both those guys can shoot, pass, and handle the ball, and are unstoppable one on one, and too good at passing to double). There isnt a traditional point guard, but Gbinije, Rautins, and Owens are all comfortable running the offense and they can switch out which in a lot of ways is better than having all the ball handling on one guys shoulders.

Off the bench I'd take.

G: Jardine - was the point on two #1 seeds, and not by accident. He had a great feel for when to distribute and when to look for his own shot. I think he'd fit in great as a bench guy who came in only when we needed the ball handling/distributing.

F: Anthony - I have him on the bench rather than starting because he's not as good defending as Johnson or Owens and their skills compliment each other in a way that Anthony's doesnt. Still, imagine bringing him off the bench for instant scoring? He'd be unstoppable in that role. Could also add more ball handling (coming in for Johnson) if the team happened to need that.

C: Thomas - Shot blocking is so important in the college game, and he was the best we've had. A big line up of Thomas at center and Coleman at forward would be really hard to score against.

That's my 8 man rotation.

For the other 2 I'd take shooters. I have tons of ball handling, tons of defense, tons of offense. Not possible to have too many shooters.

McNamara - not ideal defensively, but he would get a lot of open looks with this team, and can be that free throw guy when you need one.

Nichols - A bit redundant with Johnson on the team, but could fill in if an injury happened.

For the two deep bench guys, I'll take two surprises.

James Theus

Jeremy McNeil.

Why am I taking them? We saw this year that Boeheim's press can be deadly. Theus was the best I have seen at SU at the head of the press. McNeil was the best press rim protector I have seen. I'd keep these guys in reserve in case we needed to press. Bring them on with a few automatic offense guys (lets say McNamara, Anthony, Owens) and you have a team that will force turnovers, and will also convert off them.

This is almost the best possible defensive team, and best possible shooting team. Its great in the half court. It can press. The one problem would be this is not the best transition team, but I'll live with that, you win in March with good half court offense. Transition O can be game-planned against.

 

[OttoMets]

Depends on which version of Boeheim is coaching the team. If we are talking 75-95 man to man Boeheim, I'd take Sherm as the point. If we are talking 96-16 all zone Boeheim I wouldn't.

I'm going to pick the modern Boeheim, because I think he's a better coach now than he was then.

Going with that, Ill take.

PG: Gbinije
SG: Rautins
SF: Johnson
PF: Owens
C: Coleman

This is not the most talented team, and is arguably is missing SU's 3 best players (Pearl, Douglas, Anthony). But I think it might be the best team. Its got great length at each position, an A+ defender at each position. On offense, There are 3 great shooters who will space the floor and allow Owens and Coleman to absolutely dominate inside (both those guys can shoot, pass, and handle the ball, and are unstoppable one on one, and too good at passing to double). There isnt a traditional point guard, but Gbinije, Rautins, and Owens are all comfortable running the offense and they can switch out which in a lot of ways is better than having all the ball handling on one guys shoulders.

Off the bench I'd take.

G: Jardine - was the point on two #1 seeds, and not by accident. He had a great feel for when to distribute and when to look for his own shot. I think he'd fit in great as a bench guy who came in only when we needed the ball handling/distributing.

F: Anthony - I have him on the bench rather than starting because he's not as good defending as Johnson or Owens and their skills compliment each other in a way that Anthony's doesnt. Still, imagine bringing him off the bench for instant scoring? He'd be unstoppable in that role. Could also add more ball handling (coming in for Johnson) if the team happened to need that.

C: Thomas - Shot blocking is so important in the college game, and he was the best we've had. A big line up of Thomas at center and Coleman at forward would be really hard to score against.

That's my 8 man rotation.

For the other 2 I'd take shooters. I have tons of ball handling, tons of defense, tons of offense. Not possible to have too many shooters.

McNamara - not ideal defensively, but he would get a lot of open looks with this team, and can be that free throw guy when you need one.

Nichols - A bit redundant with Johnson on the team, but could fill in if an injury happened.

For the two deep bench guys, I'll take two surprises.

James Theus

Jeremy McNeil.

Why am I taking them? We saw this year that Boeheim's press can be deadly. Theus was the best I have seen at SU at the head of the press. McNeil was the best press rim protector I have seen. I'd keep these guys in reserve in case we needed to press. Bring them on with a few automatic offense guys (lets say McNamara, Anthony, Owens) and you have a team that will force turnovers, and will also convert off them.

This is almost the best possible defensive team, and best possible shooting team. Its great in the half court. It can press. The one problem would be this is not the best transition team, but I'll live with that, you win in March with good half court offense. Transition O can be game-planned against.

That would be a fun group of starters, if only to see Coleman's reaction after the 12th consecutive time that Gbinije forgets what's supposed to happen on a pick-and-roll.

 

[orangefog]

That would be a fun group of starters, if only to see Coleman's reaction after the 12th consecutive time that Gbinije forgets what's supposed to happen on a pick-and-roll.

You think he would allow that 12 times? G would be dead at 2.

 

[tee1222]

Slick Rick the Ruler he's cooler than an Ice Brick Ricky Ricardo Ricky Don't Lose that Number Jackson, no?

 

[RF2044]

I think we shift Coleman to center to accommodate John Wallace on the first team:

1. Sherm
2. Bing
3. Carmelo
4. Wallace
5. Coleman

I had a really difficult time leaving Owens off of the first team, despite Carmelo's greatness. Ultimately, the title trumps Owens being what I believe to be a superior all around player.

Next group of all-timers:

• Pearl
• Moten
• Owens
• Warrick
• Seikaly

Again, I'm conflicted here. In actuality, I think that Bill Smith might be the pound-for-pound best center in program history, but it is tough to argue with Seikaly's final two years / NBA success. That got him on the second team over Smith and Bouie.

Followed by, in no particular order:

• Bouie
• Orr
• Hackett
• Kohls
• Smith
• Addison
• Rautins
• Thompson
• Autry
• Flynn
• W. Johnson
• Thomas
• Hart
• Fair
• Onuaku
• Waiters
• Christmas
• MCW

All of the above assumes that we're talking about the all time greatest players in program history, instead of the five that work best together on some sort of cobbled together squad.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Always a fun thread. I've also probably contradicted myself with lineups throughout the years. I'll limit mine to post 2000 (obviously we have tons of great players prior to this).

PG: MCW
SG: Rautins
SF: Wes
PF: Carmelo
C: Melo

Bench:
Next five: Flynn, Waiters, G, Rakeem, AO
Deep bench: Jackson, Warrick

 

[Eric15]

Regarding Moten, if I'm designing a roster who's primary criteria is career accomplishments, he obviously has to be on there since he's the program's all-time leading scorer. But if I'm basing on who gives me the best chance of winning, there are lots of guys like Dion who I would start over him. I like Lawrence a lot, but I've always found him overrated.

 

[Waltdods]

Depends on which version of Boeheim is coaching the team. If we are talking 75-95 man to man Boeheim, I'd take Sherm as the point. If we are talking 96-16 all zone Boeheim I wouldn't.

I'm going to pick the modern Boeheim, because I think he's a better coach now than he was then.

Going with that, Ill take.

PG: Gbinije
SG: Rautins
SF: Johnson
PF: Owens
C: Coleman

This is not the most talented team, and is arguably is missing SU's 3 best players (Pearl, Douglas, Anthony). But I think it might be the best team. Its got great length at each position, an A+ defender at each position. On offense, There are 3 great shooters who will space the floor and allow Owens and Coleman to absolutely dominate inside (both those guys can shoot, pass, and handle the ball, and are unstoppable one on one, and too good at passing to double). There isnt a traditional point guard, but Gbinije, Rautins, and Owens are all comfortable running the offense and they can switch out which in a lot of ways is better than having all the ball handling on one guys shoulders.
.

Man, this is an interesting thought but I think you are over-valuing defense and more recent players. G, Rautins, and Wes (I assume this is Wes and not Dave Johnson?) are pretty similar players. Only G offers much off the bounce, and even he was pretty limited to straight-line slashes. This is basically a souped-up version of the '09-10 team, which was awesome and would have been incredible with Owens in the KJ role and Coleman in the Arinze role. But I have to think we could do better.

I think the argument for Rautins at the 2 (or really, even G) is pretty good if you're not going back to Bing. Both are guys who don't need the ball, play good defense, and will hit open shots. But G at the point and Wes at the 3 really seems like giving up more than you need to. If you are going to go for defense, I'd think about MCW rather than G, at least if you keep shooters at the 2 through 4 spots.

Generally, I'm not sure there's a huge incremental gain from adding more excellent defensive players in the zone. The zone's been good to unstoppable every year since 09. The two best zone teams were probably 11-12 and 12-13, and both of them had some fairly average defensive players getting significant time - Waiters (who was great for steals but gambled a lot) and sophomore Fair in '11-12; sophomore Xmas, Grant, Dajuan (whether his minutes were really significant is perhaps debatable).

Syracuse won a championship with a decidedly average zone team. The zone was still a weapon. Adding more spikes to it at the expense of offense seems like a mistake.

 

[Dave85]

with the recent loss of an all time Orange great, a few friends and I have been tossing around (again) the perfect all-time 12 man SU roster. the goal is both greatness and balance. as complete a roster as you can create, using players from the heights of their respective years. I also limited mine to players I saw play. You don't have to. if you want to throw a championship winning center like Joe Schwartzer on your squad, more power to you.

I'm going with:

starting 5:

1-Pearl
2-Bing
3-Melo
4-Coleman
5- Bouie

Off the bench:

1- Sherm
2- Moten
2/3- Owens
2/3- Stevie
3/4- Wallace
4/5- Etan
5- Seikaly


~~~

now the fun part: who's your next level team?

S: Flynn, Dion, Wes, Orr, AO
B: MCW, GMac, Devo, Raf, CJ. Rak, Bad Melo w/ Andy and g just missing the cut

This thread is like throwing lighter fluid on the grill.

1-Douglas
2-Moten
3-Melo
4-Wallace
5- Seikaly

Not to take anything away from Dave Bing's greatness, but it was a different game back then.

 

[OttoMets]

I admire a lot of our recent defensive-minded players, but offense is fun to watch and wins games. Give me these guys, even with an OK defensive effort, no one's beating them.

Douglas
Bing
Anthony
Coleman
Seikaly (people who know more than I do could sub Bill Smith in here and I couldn't argue)

 

[Eric15]

I think we shift Coleman to center to accommodate John Wallace on the first team:

1. Sherm
2. Bing
3. Carmelo
4. Wallace
5. Coleman

I had a really difficult time leaving Owens off of the first team, despite Carmelo's greatness. Ultimately, the title trumps Owens being what I believe to be a superior all around player.

Next group of all-timers:

• Pearl
• Moten
• Owens
• Warrick
• Seikaly

Again, I'm conflicted here. In actuality, I think that Bill Smith might be the pound-for-pound best center in program history, but it is tough to argue with Seikaly's final two years / NBA success. That got him on the second team over Smith and Bouie.

Followed by, in no particular order:

• Bouie
• Orr
• Hackett
• Kohls
• Smith
• Addison
• Rautins
• Thompson
• Autry
• Flynn
• W. Johnson
• Thomas
• Hart
• Fair
• Onuaku
• Waiters
• Christmas
• MCW

All of the above assumes that we're talking about the all time greatest players in program history, instead of the five that work best together on some sort of cobbled together squad.

RF, just curious, was leaving out GMac intentional or an oversight?

 

[Tom K.]

No love for Southerland? Smooth shooting, deadly range, and a big plus in the zone at 6'8".

I really can't do things like this. They make my head hurt and I'll be at it all day.

 

[RF2044]

RF, just curious, was leaving out GMac intentional or an oversight?

Let me qualify by saying up front how much I like GMac, respect what he's done as a coach, and how grateful I am for 2003 and his role in bringing us a national championship. Kid had a lot of big shots over the course of his career.

I also think that GMac gets / got a lot of sh-t from our fanbase, and from opposing fanbases, similar to the abuse that Trevor Cooney got more recently. In the main, GMac was an under-rated lead guard IMO, who played on some very flawed teams after his freshman year. He didn't improve physically over the course of his career, which enabled him to be victimized by teams that overtly tried to physically knock him off stride with extremely physical defense, like uconn and pitt. I am tremendously happy that he had that epic BET run, to add an additional layer onto his somewhat controversial legacy, because he deserves it.

But I think he was too inconsistent for my tastes, so I left him off in favor of some other players. If I had to add two more to the list, I'd probably go with Gbinije and Demetris Nichols over GMac.

 

[Shark58]

Man, this is an interesting thought but I think you are over-valuing defense and more recent players. G, Rautins, and Wes (I assume this is Wes and not Dave Johnson?) are pretty similar players. Only G offers much off the bounce, and even he was pretty limited to straight-line slashes. This is basically a souped-up version of the '09-10 team, which was awesome and would have been incredible with Owens in the KJ role and Coleman in the Arinze role. But I have to think we could do better.

I think the argument for Rautins at the 2 (or really, even G) is pretty good if you're not going back to Bing. Both are guys who don't need the ball, play good defense, and will hit open shots. But G at the point and Wes at the 3 really seems like giving up more than you need to. If you are going to go for defense, I'd think about MCW rather than G, at least if you keep shooters at the 2 through 4 spots.

Generally, I'm not sure there's a huge incremental gain from adding more excellent defensive players in the zone. The zone's been good to unstoppable every year since 09. The two best zone teams were probably 11-12 and 12-13, and both of them had some fairly average defensive players getting significant time - Waiters (who was great for steals but gambled a lot) and sophomore Fair in '11-12; sophomore Xmas, Grant, Dajuan (whether his minutes were really significant is perhaps debatable).

Syracuse won a championship with a decidedly average zone team. The zone was still a weapon. Adding more spikes to it at the expense of offense seems like a mistake.

I thought he meant BJ

 

[Shark58]

just re read mine and realized I completely missed Danny Schayes

he starts 2nd team, bump AO to the bench and Bad Melo to the curb

 

[Cowtown]

How do we get this far with not even a mention of Preston Shumpert? No crap intended, maybe there's something I don't know?

 

[Knicks411]

Always a fun thread. I've also probably contradicted myself with lineups throughout the years. I'll limit mine to post 2000 (obviously we have tons of great players prior to this).

PG: MCW
SG: Rautins
SF: Wes
PF: Carmelo
C: Melo

Bench:
Next five: Flynn, Waiters, G, Rakeem, AO
Deep bench: Jackson, Warrick

I think Warrick maybe deserves a little more love here; he was first team all america as a senior. I might have him above AO/Rak, but those guys do provide more defensively so I can see the argument for them.

I wouldn't mind finding a spot for Devo; that team is just a little short on shooting I think and Eric could fill it up

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think Warrick maybe deserves a little more love here; he was first team all america as a senior. I might have him above AO/Rak, but those guys do provide more defensively so I can see the argument for them.

I wouldn't mind finding a spot for Devo; that team is just a little short on shooting I think and Eric could fill it up

Warrick favorite player ever. I agree.

 

[General20]

Man, this is an interesting thought but I think you are over-valuing defense and more recent players. G, Rautins, and Wes (I assume this is Wes and not Dave Johnson?) are pretty similar players. Only G offers much off the bounce, and even he was pretty limited to straight-line slashes. This is basically a souped-up version of the '09-10 team, which was awesome and would have been incredible with Owens in the KJ role and Coleman in the Arinze role. But I have to think we could do better.

I think the argument for Rautins at the 2 (or really, even G) is pretty good if you're not going back to Bing. Both are guys who don't need the ball, play good defense, and will hit open shots. But G at the point and Wes at the 3 really seems like giving up more than you need to. If you are going to go for defense, I'd think about MCW rather than G, at least if you keep shooters at the 2 through 4 spots.

Generally, I'm not sure there's a huge incremental gain from adding more excellent defensive players in the zone. The zone's been good to unstoppable every year since 09. The two best zone teams were probably 11-12 and 12-13, and both of them had some fairly average defensive players getting significant time - Waiters (who was great for steals but gambled a lot) and sophomore Fair in '11-12; sophomore Xmas, Grant, Dajuan (whether his minutes were really significant is perhaps debatable).

Syracuse won a championship with a decidedly average zone team. The zone was still a weapon. Adding more spikes to it at the expense of offense seems like a mistake.

Nothing you are saying is wrong, but I'd argue that the team I picked would operate more like an NBA team and doesn't need a traditional point guard. On defense it has no weak points, and nothing to exploit. Its A+ in every area from positional defense, to forcing turnovers, to blocking shots, to rebounding. On offense it would look like a spread the floor and exploit the mismatch type of NBA offense. Gbinije (39% from 3) Rautins (41% from 3) and Johnson (40% from three) hang out behind the line and dump the ball down low to either Coleman or Ownes (whoever has a bigger mismatch). The offense would flow through one of those two guys, either of which is more than capable of dominating their opponent or passing the ball to an open man if the double team came. If, for some reason, a team could match up with both of Owens and Coleman (maybe the Mutumbo & Mourning Georgetown team?) then you bring in a true point guard like Jardine and an automatic scoring machine like Anthony off the bench and run a more typical college offense.


Now if you want a really fun, exciting to watch, team, then you take Sherman Douglas and surround him with four guys who can run the court and dunk. None of them need to be able to handle the ball since he can handle all that. Bonus points if one or two of them can shoot.

Douglas
Nichols
Johnson
Warrick - Imagine Douglas throwing him alley oops!
Christmas - would love to have Keita's motor in this position, but not his hands

 

[tee1222]

Greatness and Balance, Players I saw and I'm building a team I think will throttle whoever is thrown at them.
PG Sherm
SG Moten
SF Melo
PF DC1
C Etan Thomas - Defense Defense Defense

JB rolling 8 with this crew so
G Dion instant offense, first off bench
F Owens Boards, Glass, All Purpose, shoot even point forward
C AO Offense

First snub
MCW

 

[Mstumpy50]

Well I will take a shot. In my opinion this would be the ultimate 2-3 zone roster that SU could ever walk out the tunnel with. This is purely on the court ability and fitting the defensive system...not academic! Mind you my first Syracuse teams I can remember are the 85-86 and 86-87 so nobody prior to those rosters made my cut.

Autry
Moten
Carmelo
DC
FAB

MCW
Waiters
Owens
Wallace
Seikaly

Wes
Gbinije
Warrick

Walk ons
Andy Rautins (Leo pay$)
Donovan McNabb
Justin Thomas

Without question it would be hard to have a team without the likes of Sherman, GMAC, Stevie, etc but we are talking all time team and I am assuming it's the recent philosophy...Big Guards. My version of the ultimate teams would have distributors at the 1 that can get out on the break.

 

[br801]

This thread is like throwing lighter fluid on the grill.

1-Douglas
2-Moten
3-Melo
4-Wallace
5- Seikaly

Not to take anything away from Dave Bing's greatness, but it was a different game back then.

Regarding Dave Bing, the guy could jump through the ceiling at 6'3" and averaged over 10 rebounds per game in college. His athleticism would have played well in any era, including the present one, IMO.

 

[Eric15]

How do we get this far with not even a mention of Preston Shumpert? No crap intended, maybe there's something I don't know?

Good question. I feel like the SU fanbase tends to view him in a negative light because of how frustrating his career ended, but he was a great college player. And he was essentially the victim of the 2002 drama, not the culprit.

 

[721Comstock]

Greatness and Balance, Players I saw and I'm building a team I think will throttle whoever is thrown at them.
PG Sherm
SG Moten
SF Melo
PF DC1
C Etan Thomas - Defense Defense Defense

JB rolling 8 with this crew so
G Dion instant offense, first off bench
F Owens Boards, Glass, All Purpose, shoot even point forward
C AO Offense

First snub
MCW

I'll preface this by stating "no offense", but - there's no way to state this without offending people:


Anyone who has AO on ANY all-time SU hoops player list (for anything besides epicly awful FT shooting) is on drugs.

I love the guy, and appreciate what he did for us, but he's not even in the Top 5 (or probably Top 10) SU centers.
Period.

His "offense" was monster dunks, and O-reb putbacks of his own bricked shots.

If you saw DC1, then you saw Rony.
Who is 1000x better than AO at everything in basketball.

Also: Fab (much as we hate to mention his name) and Rak would be ahead of AO too, just in recent vintage.

Shump or Southy at forward??
Just, NO.

Cmon people.