Allegedly "Pay for Play" schools & recruiting

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#1
Arizona. Miami. Kansas. Maryland. Louisville.

It's understood how Syracuse has recruited at the highest levels for some time, yet it seemed like the same schools kept beating us for guys we worked to develop relationships with. And in many cases, when these guys would commit elsewhere, it seemed to come out of nowhere.

A few of these stand out in particular in my mind...

- Brandon Randolph, a kid from PA who suddenly commits to Arizona.

- Lonnie Walker, a kid from Reading, PA suddenly commits to Miami.

- Ronde Hollis-Jefferson, another kid from PA, suddenly commits to Arizona.

These 3 especially struck me as odd at the time. And it also struck me how the same programs would beat us for these kids.

Arizona? Great basketball school, but it's all the ways across the country! How many kids really decide to go to school that far away from home?

Miami? Good enough, but since when did they become a school we are suddenly competing with (and losing to) for many recruits?

NC State? Maryland? Decent enough schools...but SU should be beating them regularly for recruits, IMO.

Well...now we know a little better why this was the case! It finally makes some sense!

SU had definitely put in the time with a lot of these guys I list below. I would find myself chalking up individual recruiting losses as "one-offs" - except now, in hindsight, it finally makes sense.

Here's a list I just put together of guys I remember the staff recruiting at some point. (Tho I'm not saying "a bag" was reason for all decisions.)

2018 recruits:
Eric Ayala - Maryland

2017 recruits:
Billy Preston - Kansas
Lonnie Walker - Miami
Brandon Randolph - Arizona

2016 recruits:
Kobi Simmons - Arizona
VJ King - Louisville
Kevin Huerter - Maryland

2015 recruits:
Cheick Diallo - Kansas

2014 recruits:
Ja'Quan Newton - Miami

2013 recruits:
Wayne Seldon - Kansas
Ronde Hollis-Jefferson - Arizona
Anthony "Cat" Barber - NC State
BeeJay Anya - NC State

I mean, how can you compete when certain schools are not playing by the same rules as everyone else?

You can't. In fact, it makes me marvel even more at the job JB & staff has managed to do recruiting talented kids while not succombing to such tactics.
 

GooseMutt

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#2
The big question is how is all this going to affect our future recruiting efforts. Dare I say level playing field other than the few blue bloods .

Boeheim May be onery but at least he has integrity
 

SWC75

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#3
Orange Nation, (AM 1200 Noon -2PM) will be interviewing Mike Waters at some point on the show today.

I called in the following questions to ask him:

1) Why do other schools seemed to get punished less by the NCAA for more serious violations?

2) Why do other schools get considerably more McDonald's All-Americans than we do?

3) Why do we seem to have a harder time retaining our players than other schools?

I was accused of "orange paranoia" and maybe that's true. But I still hope they ask those questions because I think the answers could be related.
 

cuse10

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#4
Your job of connecting the dots is missing the tinfoil hat. If you grow up in New York City or Chicago (just to name a few places), you want to get away from home if you get the opportunity whether it is to experience something new or get away from bad influences that can still reach you less than an hour away especially in St. John's and DePaul's case.

Yes, some players were paid to go to school, but that isn't the case for everyone who goes to university thousands of miles away from home. Arizona has a great campus and good looking coeds. If I was 18-21 and had the option to play high major D1 ball, they'd absolutely be on my list.
 

cuse10

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#5
2) Why do other schools get considerably more McDonald's All-Americans than we do?

3) Why do we seem to have a harder time retaining our players than other schools?
2) As Derrick Coleman once said, there's only two things to do in Syracuse; play basketball and shovel snow. 18-21 year olds want something to do when they aren't in class. Syracuse doesn't offer much in recreation and snows too much. SU has top notch facilities, plays on national television more than half of the year and gets 25000 on a bad night. If basketball is your main focus, you'd consider SU. Everyone, including elite prospects, isn't focused solely on ball.

3) Look no further than the situations that some of these guys come from. They aren't looking down the road in which one more year to showcase their skills can guarantee generational wealth if they put it all together. They including greedy family members are looking for right now. As my dad always says when he sees guys across the country leave school early, "you were getting by all of this time, what's one more year?" Unfortunately for Syracuse, it weakens the roster and in the pros, most of these guys flame out which unfairly casts Boeheim as a coach who can't develop talent.
 
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#6
Orange Nation, (AM 1200 Noon -2PM) will be interviewing Mike Waters at some point on the show today.

I called in the following questions to ask him:

1) Why do other schools seemed to get punished less by the NCAA for more serious violations?

2) Why do other schools get considerably more McDonald's All-Americans than we do?

3) Why do we seem to have a harder time retaining our players than other schools?

I was accused of "orange paranoia" and maybe that's true. But I still hope they ask those questions because I think the answers could be related.
I'd love for you to ask JB this question on his radio show next year:

"If you had to single out one situation where SU had a legitimate shot at landing the prospect but recruiting violations swayed the result, which player's recruitment would you pick?"

I'm sure he would never answer with a single name (Nerlens Noel?)...but you never know!
 
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#7
Your job of connecting the dots is missing the tinfoil hat. If you grow up in New York City or Chicago (just to name a few places), you want to get away from home if you get the opportunity whether it is to experience something new or get away from bad influences that can still reach you less than an hour away especially in St. John's and DePaul's case.

Yes, some players were paid to go to school, but that isn't the case for everyone who goes to university thousands of miles away from home. Arizona has a great campus and good looking coeds. If I was 18-21 and had the option to play high major D1 ball, they'd absolutely be on my list.
2) As Derrick Coleman once said, there's only two things to do in Syracuse; play basketball and shovel snow. 18-21 year olds want something to do when they aren't in class. Syracuse doesn't offer much in recreation and snows too much. SU has top notch facilities, plays on national television more than half of the year and gets 25000 on a bad night. If basketball is your main focus, you'd consider SU. Everyone, including elite prospects, isn't focused solely on ball.

3) Look no further than the situations that some of these guys come from. They aren't looking down the road in which one more year to showcase their skills can guarantee generational wealth if they put it all together. They including greedy family members are looking for right now. As my dad always says when he sees guys across the country leave school early, "you were getting by all of this time, what's one more year?" Unfortunately for Syracuse, it weakens the roster and in the pros, most of these guys flame out which unfairly casts Boeheim as a coach who can't develop talent.
To sum up, they want to be an hour+ away from their populous urban homes with a still booming downtown scene, good weather, and hot chicks.
I'm not totally sure how many of those boxes Lawrence, KS checks but it seems like Vanderbilt ought to be crushing it.
 

Hoo's That

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#8
To sum up, they want to be an hour+ away from their populous urban homes with a still booming downtown scene, good weather, and hot chicks.
I'm not totally sure how many of those boxes Lawrence, KS checks but it seems like Vanderbilt ought to be crushing it.
... except Vandy makes you go to class. It's a little easier since they took over Peabody Teachers' College, but not UNC-CHeat figment class or uke 3 guts and a class at NCCU easy.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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#10
I'd love for you to ask JB this question on his radio show next year:

"If you had to single out one situation where SU had a legitimate shot at landing the prospect but recruiting violations swayed the result, which player's recruitment would you pick?"

I'm sure he would never answer with a single name (Nerlens Noel?)...but you never know!
Anderson/Marbury/Liberty/Davis are my top 4.
Liberty actually told the staff he was sorry, but Illinois was taking care of his whole family.
 

UnknownOrange

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#11
The big question is how is all this going to affect our future recruiting efforts. Dare I say level playing field other than the few blue bloods .

Boeheim May be onery but at least he has integrity
I love JB but this is a funny line.

I think it would be wise as fans to not throw stones to other schools/fanbases.

If you think you know of a clean college program I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya, folks.
 

GooseMutt

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#12
I love JB but this is a funny line.

I think it would be wise as fans to not throw stones to other schools/fanbases.

If you think you know of a clean college program I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya, folks.
They did a pit bull type investigation on us and there was no pay to play found. YMCA a joke. Weed...,well it is college. Overall we were beaten up over things much less substantial than these other school situations imply. I assume
 

SWC75

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#13
2) As Derrick Coleman once said, there's only two things to do in Syracuse; play basketball and shovel snow. 18-21 year olds want something to do when they aren't in class. Syracuse doesn't offer much in recreation and snows too much. SU has top notch facilities, plays on national television more than half of the year and gets 25000 on a bad night. If basketball is your main focus, you'd consider SU. Everyone, including elite prospects, isn't focused solely on ball.

3) Look no further than the situations that some of these guys come from. They aren't looking down the road in which one more year to showcase their skills can guarantee generational wealth if they put it all together. They including greedy family members are looking for right now. As my dad always says when he sees guys across the country leave school early, "you were getting by all of this time, what's one more year?" Unfortunately for Syracuse, it weakens the roster and in the pros, most of these guys flame out which unfairly casts Boeheim as a coach who can't develop talent.

After all that and after talking about exactly those things to open the show, they didn't ask Mike about them at all.
Mike Waters "Orange Nation" 4-11
 

UnknownOrange

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#14
They did a pit bull type investigation on us and there was no pay to play found. YMCA a joke. Weed...,well it is college. Overall we were beaten up over things much less substantial than these other school situations imply. I assume
I never said anything for pay-for-play lol. It's just funny to see that line when he's had NCAA violations a couple times, is all.

Like I said - find a clean program and Jimmy Hoffa will be right next to them
 

Capt. Tuttle

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#19
I'd love for you to ask JB this question on his radio show next year:

"If you had to single out one situation where SU had a legitimate shot at landing the prospect but recruiting violations swayed the result, which player's recruitment would you pick?"

I'm sure he would never answer with a single name (Nerlens Noel?)...but you never know!
Sam Perkins
Marcus Liberty
Jalen Rose
Anthony Davis
King Rice
Jamal Masburn
Kenny Anderson
Stephan Marbury...
Just to name a few
 

Briancuse

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#21
I will maintain to this day that A bag was presented to Darius Bazley either at half time or shortly after the McDonalds game.[/QUOTE
I'm not saying your wrong but he was the 10th ranked player in the class. Why him?
 

Trueblue25

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#22
Nba potential vs immediate college potential. Bazley had a whole mess of pro potential but fell into the trap and didn’t take the year of necessary prep and training in college. He, imo, was a guinea pig for agents trying to evade the fbi. “Bazley went straight to the g league, why not you?”
 
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#23
Hasn't SU beaten out some of the implicated schools for recruits in recent years?

I think Oshae's final list included Oregon and USC.

I think Richardson was considering Arizona and Indiana. IU has not been mentioned in the Adidas scandal to my knowledge but everyone knows Tom Crean was involved in very shady shiznit during his time in Bloomington.
 

longtimefan

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#24
Sam Perkins
Marcus Liberty
Jalen Rose
Anthony Davis
King Rice
Jamal Masburn
Kenny Anderson
Stephan Marbury...
Just to name a few
Sam Perkins wins the prize. Losing him cost the program ~15 wins and 2 NCAA appearances over the 4 years he was in school. (And got Dean Smith his first NC.)

Kenny Anderson would be my second choice. He stayed 2 seasons. We would have made the FF his freshman year--don't think anyone was beating UNLV that year.
 

SoBeCuse

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#25
Arizona. Miami. Kansas. Maryland. Louisville.

It's understood how Syracuse has recruited at the highest levels for some time, yet it seemed like the same schools kept beating us for guys we worked to develop relationships with. And in many cases, when these guys would commit elsewhere, it seemed to come out of nowhere.

A few of these stand out in particular in my mind...

- Brandon Randolph, a kid from PA who suddenly commits to Arizona.

- Lonnie Walker, a kid from Reading, PA suddenly commits to Miami.

- Ronde Hollis-Jefferson, another kid from PA, suddenly commits to Arizona.

These 3 especially struck me as odd at the time. And it also struck me how the same programs would beat us for these kids.

Arizona? Great basketball school, but it's all the ways across the country! How many kids really decide to go to school that far away from home?

Miami? Good enough, but since when did they become a school we are suddenly competing with (and losing to) for many recruits?

NC State? Maryland? Decent enough schools...but SU should be beating them regularly for recruits, IMO.

Well...now we know a little better why this was the case! It finally makes some sense!

SU had definitely put in the time with a lot of these guys I list below. I would find myself chalking up individual recruiting losses as "one-offs" - except now, in hindsight, it finally makes sense.

Here's a list I just put together of guys I remember the staff recruiting at some point. (Tho I'm not saying "a bag" was reason for all decisions.)

2018 recruits:
Eric Ayala - Maryland

2017 recruits:
Billy Preston - Kansas
Lonnie Walker - Miami
Brandon Randolph - Arizona

2016 recruits:
Kobi Simmons - Arizona
VJ King - Louisville
Kevin Huerter - Maryland

2015 recruits:
Cheick Diallo - Kansas

2014 recruits:
Ja'Quan Newton - Miami

2013 recruits:
Wayne Seldon - Kansas
Ronde Hollis-Jefferson - Arizona
Anthony "Cat" Barber - NC State
BeeJay Anya - NC State

I mean, how can you compete when certain schools are not playing by the same rules as everyone else?

You can't. In fact, it makes me marvel even more at the job JB & staff has managed to do recruiting talented kids while not succombing to such tactics.
Good points. Pretty valid although I’m quite sure Arizona was recruiting RHJ for awhile. It wasn’t a sudden 180 to just go there. Book was tied into Philly well and Arizona always did well in Philly even back to Mustafa Shakur. Pretty sure Boeheim wanted (heard this somewhere) RHJ as a PG which would’ve been crazy, lol. He was an Artest type of player.
 


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