And then there were two, the Cavs and Warriors | Page 16 | Syracusefan.com

And then there were two, the Cavs and Warriors

Knicks411 said:
My main issue with this is setting aside Klay. You're certainly tilting the scales in one direction by taking out a guy who made third team all league this year.

This is the first time I actually think the Cavs are going to win the series. It's pretty incredible. Another takeaway I have is the refs have pretty much decided to stop calling fouls unless someone dies.
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Valid point but people have been arguing that guys like Bogut, Barnes, Green etc are sooooo much better than Cleveland's role players and i've said from the beginning that they are overrated and Cleveland's are underrated. Who would you rather have right now, Delly-Shump-Jones-JR-Mozgov-Thompson or Klay-Green-Iggy-Bogut-Lee-Barnes-Livingston-Speights?

Golden State is deeper and that may show itself as we are now going into Game 4 but Cleveland's supporting cast to Lebron is playing better through 3 games than Golden State's supporting cast to Curry. Lebron is playing at al all-time great level but it also helps get W's when his guys are 1) playing better defense than GS 2) rebounding better than GS and 3) shooting better than GS. I have faith in Jones, Delly, Shump etc hitting a wide open shot, I dont have that same faith in the Warriors.

Also, i'm waiting for Draymond Green to not be an absolute joke in the Finals. Iguodala is the only player on that team who seems to have a pair aside from Curry hopefully starting to cook now after breaking out of his slump in the 4th quarter.
 
I would agree that the Cleveland role players are outplaying the GS ones right now, probably even if you want to throw Klay in there. I still think the GS players are better than the Cleveland guys (even throwing out Klay) overall, in a vacuum, whatever, but it's also probably true that doesn't matter right now. (I'd also point out how much Cleveland's offense fell apart in the 90-120 seconds Lebron sat to start the fourth. And Shumpert made one of the worst inbounds passes I've ever seen last night). If Lebron was playing even just a little bit below superhuman level the Warriors are probably up 3-0.

Draymond was invisible last night. He seems too hesitant to shoot the open 3's he's going to get on the Steph pick and roll. He's really letting them down right now. I would imagine Lee is going to see some more minutes in Game 4? i don't think they can play Speights anymore.
 
Knicks411 said:
I would agree that the Cleveland role players are outplaying the GS ones right now, probably even if you want to throw Klay in there. I still think the GS players are better than the Cleveland guys (even throwing out Klay) overall, in a vacuum, whatever, but it's also probably true that doesn't matter right now. (I'd also point out how much Cleveland's offense fell apart in the 90-120 seconds Lebron sat to start the fourth. And Shumpert made one of the worst inbounds passes I've ever seen last night). If Lebron was playing even just a little bit below superhuman level the Warriors are probably up 3-0.

Draymond was invisible last night. He seems too hesitant to shoot the open 3's he's going to get on the Steph pick and roll. He's really letting them down right now. I would imagine Lee is going to see some more minutes in Game 4? i don't think they can play Speights anymore.
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Agreed for the most part. Golden State outside Curry is better, in general, than Cleveland outside Lebron but they were way too overhyped come into this series and Lebron is not playing with bums like everyone would have you believe. Further, Cleveland's role players are rough and rugged while Golden State's are coming off soft so that, imo, is evening out any talent discrepencies there may be between the two units. Cleveland, even without Kyrie and Love, wasn't that much worse than Golden State but with their style of play has somehow even outplayed Golden State.

Lebron is playing at an insane level but his guys hit open shots. Curry is getting open shots for his guys as well off the traps Cleveland throws at him all the time and they are missing. Golden State is getting out-toughed defensively and on the boards. That all being said, if Lebron isn't superhuman, this series is 3-0 GS and if Curry doesn't play 11 out of 12 quarters like he's Seth Curry, GS is up 3-0.
 
Golden State just needs to play harder. I think they will in Game 4. Very similar issues to the Memphis series. Green, Barnes and Bogut have been terrible this series

I think they found something with a lineup of Curry, Thompson, Iggy, Lee and Ezeli. That's the lineup that gives them the most energy, and I think they can beat Cleveland with a heavy dose of Lee/Curry pick and rolls. Putting Green in Pick and Rolls is uesless right now because he's in a terrible shooting slump and not capable of finishing at the rim, so Cleveland just doesn't guard him. I just think Cleveland is a bad matchup for him and a good matchup for Lee.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
Golden State just needs to play harder. I think they will in Game 4. Very similar issues to the Memphis series. Green, Barnes and Bogut have been terrible this series

I think they found something with a lineup of Curry, Thompson, Iggy, Lee and Ezeli. That's the lineup that gives them the most energy, and I think they can beat Cleveland with a heavy dose of Lee/Curry pick and rolls. Putting Green in Pick and Rolls is uesless right now because he's in a terrible shooting slump and not capable of finishing at the rim, so Cleveland just doesn't guard him. I just think Cleveland is a bad matchup for him and a good matchup for Lee.
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Hopefully Lee has some stamina in the tank. He's been rotting on the bench for so long that dude gets winded playing 5 minutes.
 
longislandcuse said:
Agreed for the most part. Golden State outside Curry is better, in general, than Cleveland outside Lebron but they were way too overhyped come into this series and Lebron is not playing with bums like everyone would have you believe. .
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I know we're going back and forth, but from player 2 on down, this is definitely one of the worst rosters to make the finals in a looong time. I'm not saying they are playing like it right now, because the effort on defense has been incredible, but still.
 
Knicks411 said:
I know we're going back and forth, but from player 2 on down, this is definitely one of the worst rosters to make the finals in a looong time. I'm not saying they are playing like it right now, because the effort on defense has been incredible, but still.
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I think it's more of an effort/intensity issue than talent right now. If the officials are going to let Lebron basically tackle Steph in the open court, Golden State needs to lay the wood as well.
 
Knicks411 said:
I know we're going back and forth, but from player 2 on down, this is definitely one of the worst rosters to make the finals in a looong time. I'm not saying they are playing like it right now, because the effort on defense has been incredible, but still.
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It's an interesting discussion because on paper, they might be, but how can you say they are one of the worst when they are playing so well? It's not all Lebron. Lebron can't make them all hit 3 pointers. Lebron can't make Dellavedova become an absolute force of nature. Lebron can't make Thompson and Mozgov block shots and rebound down low. Lebron can't make every single guy on that court play defense at an above average to elite level. At some point don't they go from being one of the worst on paper to ever make the Finals to maybeeee these guys are a lot better than we thought?
 
Cusefan0307 said:
I think it's more of an effort/intensity issue than talent right now. If the officials are going to let Lebron basically tackle Steph in the open court, Golden State needs to lay the wood as well.
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Yup. They need more hard screens and hard fouls. They need a scuffle. They need some double technicals... because right now, aside from Iggy, they are getting PUNKED.
 
longislandcuse said:
It's an interesting discussion because on paper, they might be, but how can you say they are one of the worst when they are playing so well? It's not all Lebron. Lebron can't make them all hit 3 pointers. Lebron can't make Dellavedova become an absolute force of nature. Lebron can't make Thompson and Mozgov block shots and rebound down low. Lebron can't make every single guy on that court play defense at an above average to elite level. At some point don't they go from being one of the worst on paper to ever make the Finals to maybeeee these guys are a lot better than we thought?
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I'm speaking more from a general standpoint. I don't think they all became good players overnight. They are playing very well right now, especially on the defensive end, and the bottom line is, right now is all that matters. But I'm not going to let it cloud my judgement of them as players. I don't think Lebron is making Delladova into what he's been lately, but I also don't think he really is what he's been lately, if that makes sense.

I think Lebron is having a huge impact on what everyone is doing on the offensive end (he doesn't make them hit 3's but he gets them a ton of open looks) but you're definitely right on the defensive end.

But now I want to talk about how Mike Francesca is going to pronounce Dellavadova's name. Yesterday it was "delladora". Excited to see where we go from here
 
longislandcuse said:
Agreed for the most part. Golden State outside Curry is better, in general, than Cleveland outside Lebron but they were way too overhyped come into this series and Lebron is not playing with bums like everyone would have you believe. Further, Cleveland's role players are rough and rugged while Golden State's are coming off soft so that, imo, is evening out any talent discrepencies there may be between the two units. Cleveland, even without Kyrie and Love, wasn't that much worse than Golden State but with their style of play has somehow even outplayed Golden State.

Lebron is playing at an insane level but his guys hit open shots. Curry is getting open shots for his guys as well off the traps Cleveland throws at him all the time and they are missing. Golden State is getting out-toughed defensively and on the boards. That all being said, if Lebron isn't superhuman, this series is 3-0 GS and if Curry doesn't play 11 out of 12 quarters like he's Seth Curry, GS is up 3-0.
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Enough with the "ifs." You can play that game from here to eternity. It's not about "if," it's about "what it is." If Bobby Kennedy didn't get assassinated, Dick Nixon wouldn't have been president. If I would have gone to work in Miami in the mid-70s instead of taking a job in Virginia, I probably would've ended up like Tony Montana with my head in a big pile of blow. If Howard Triche's fingernails were longer, Keith Smart might not have made that shot and 'Cuse would have two titles. If, if, if. Please, we don't live in an "if" world.
 
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Fireball Jr. said:
Enough with the "ifs." You can play that game from here to eternity. It's not about "if," it's about "what it is." If Bobby Kennedy didn't get assassinated, Dick Nixon wouldn't have been president. If I would have gone to work in Miami in the mid-70s to work instead of taking a job in Virginia, I probably would've ended up like Tony Montana with my head in a bit pole of blow. If Howard Triche's fingernails were longer, Keith Smart might not have made that shot and 'Cuse would have two titles. If, if, if. Please, we don't live in an "if" world.
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Agreed. The transitive property has no utility in discussing sports.
 
Fireball Jr. said:
Enough with the "ifs." You can play that game from here to eternity. It's not about "if," it's about "what it is." If Bobby Kennedy didn't get assassinated, Dick Nixon wouldn't have been president. If I would have gone to work in Miami in the mid-70s instead of taking a job in Virginia, I probably would've ended up like Tony Montana with my head in a bit pole of blow. If Howard Triche's fingernails were longer, Keith Smart might not have made that shot and 'Cuse would have two titles. If, if, if. Please, we don't live in an "if" world.
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But what if God was one of us?
 
Fireball Jr. said:
Enough with the "ifs." You can play that game from here to eternity. It's not about "if," it's about "what it is." If Bobby Kennedy didn't get assassinated, Dick Nixon wouldn't have been president. If I would have gone to work in Miami in the mid-70s instead of taking a job in Virginia, I probably would've ended up like Tony Montana with my head in a bit pole of blow. If Howard Triche's fingernails were longer, Keith Smart might not have made that shot and 'Cuse would have two titles. If, if, if. Please, we don't live in an "if" world.
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You should be happy i'm giving credit to your MCM. Even "if" it's usually a backhanded compliment. ;)
 
CuseFaninVT said:
Yeah, you don't want them to start calling illegal screens. Mosgov will foul out in the first quarter if they did.
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To be fair, the NBA lets illegal screens go all year, why would they start calling them now? It's just one more reason their style of basketball is BS.
 
Cowtown said:
To be fair, the NBA lets illegal screens go all year, why would they start calling them now? It's just one more reason their style of basketball is BS.
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I'll take illegal screens over the BS charge call any day.
 
No way LeBron lets the Warriors win this series.
 
HakAttack said:
No way LeBron lets the Warriors win this series.
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Let's see what happens tonight. If GS wins, the series resets and home court reverts back to them.

It will be interesting to see whether GS can sustain the momentum they built in the 4th quarter of game 3. After not being able to find ways to score for the majority of those three games, they finally got off the snide. If they hit shots tonight, they will win. If not, and if Cleveland goes up 3-1, you can crown them.
 
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