Another Win. Another Drop in the NET? | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

Another Win. Another Drop in the NET?

pokercuse08 said:
The point is that wins can change quadrants over the course of the year. We have a few games on the precipice of moving up a quadrant. So early on, the NET is reliant on the early season data because that's all it has. By the end of the year, everything is weighted evenly.

This is the reason you'll see bigger swings after results earlier in the year. Each game makes up a bigger chunk of the data.
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That isn't the point. Everyone knows the quadrants change over the course of the season. The point is the quadrants are set up incorrectly in November because the data is incomplete, and the missing data is replaced with bias. Sometimes this will work its way out throughout the season. Sometimes they won't. It is why you see so many head scratching teams when you look at net rankings, especially when compared to other metrics. Each year there seem to be more "outliers" and "head-scratching" teams. NIL has a part to do with this. With enough money Fordham can become *choke,gag* UConn. Yet the net will not truly show the value of Fordham. The only way they show their value is winning their conference and then making a deep run in the NCAA, or knocking off a #1 seed. But that never, especially the last few years, happens does it?
 
FireballPhil said:
That isn't the point. Everyone knows the quadrants change over the course of the season. The point is the quadrants are set up incorrectly in November because the data is incomplete, and the missing data is replaced with bias. Sometimes this will work its way out throughout the season. Sometimes they won't. It is why you see so many head scratching teams when you look at net rankings, especially when compared to other metrics. Each year there seem to be more "outliers" and "head-scratching" teams. NIL has a part to do with this. With enough money Fordham can become *choke,gag* UConn. Yet the net will not truly show the value of Fordham. The only way they show their value is winning their conference and then making a deep run in the NCAA, or knocking off a #1 seed. But that never, especially the last few years, happens does it?
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It's the same problem football has every year. Certain teams start out with a better rating from last year's results. Even when they lose they aren't affected as much as others who are,rated lower.
The SEC in football always has 6 or 7 teams in the top 25, so even when they lose in league they don't drop much.
It's looked at as a good loss.
 
FireballPhil said:
That isn't the point. Everyone knows the quadrants change over the course of the season. The point is the quadrants are set up incorrectly in November because the data is incomplete, and the missing data is replaced with bias. Sometimes this will work its way out throughout the season. Sometimes they won't. It is why you see so many head scratching teams when you look at net rankings, especially when compared to other metrics. Each year there seem to be more "outliers" and "head-scratching" teams. NIL has a part to do with this. With enough money Fordham can become *choke,gag* UConn. Yet the net will not truly show the value of Fordham. The only way they show their value is winning their conference and then making a deep run in the NCAA, or knocking off a #1 seed. But that never, especially the last few years, happens does it?
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At the end of the year, the order of games is irrelevant. So in the final NET rankings, it doesn't matter. NET is a flawed metric in my opinion, but the order of the games doesn't matter. Top 25 polls? Different story, but that's not what we're talking about here. Now, if you want to say that the early season numbers influence polls and narrative, then sure. But the numbers are the numbers.
 
Knicks411 said:
Barely beating bad teams (Notre Dame, Louisville) at home just isn't going to help your NET. I guess it bothers some people, but any objective sorting metric just isnt going to be very impressed by that.
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Personally that doesnt bother me.

What does bother me is that Colorado State beating Boise St (who lost to Va Tech by 13 and Clemson by 17) at home is considered a Q1 win.
 
Wrinkle said:
I've never seen a single useful post from you on any subject. Sit down little boy
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Me either, he vehemently disagrees with someone yet doesn’t try to make any sort of opinion for himself.
 
The committee needs to decide how heavily it will factor NET and other metrics into selection and seeding and communicate it and stick to it so that coaches can line up their non-con opponents accordingly going forward.

We know the NET incentivizes teams to load up on patsies like Cincy, TCU and Pitt did. If coaches don't want to do that because they feel that scheduling tougher is a better way to prepare for conference play or because they feel they owe it to their fans to not play 10 glorified scrimmages every year, that's fine, but they need to know the deal.
 
M2MPrinciples said:
The committee needs to decide how heavily it will factor NET and other metrics into selection and seeding and communicate it and stick to it so that coaches can line up their non-con opponents accordingly going forward.

We know the NET incentivizes teams to load up on patsies like Cincy, TCU and Pitt did. If coaches don't want to do that because they feel that scheduling tougher is a better way to prepare for conference play or because they feel they owe it to their fans to not play 10 glorified scrimmages every year, that's fine, but they need to know the deal.
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NCAA created the stupid thing so they’re going to use it. They may realize it’s garbage and needs to be revamped, but that won’t help us this year.
 
I figured I would top this thread again, since it seems just as relevant as ever after this game.

We can't seem to do anything easily.

ACC road win, and will probably stay flat or go down in the NET.

Just brilliant work gaming the NET this season to make us look as bad as possible! ;)

I know it's probably a fluke season, but it's been amazing watching the team get big leads over and over, only to barely scratch out the win.
 
After tonight’s win we dropped to 135 th net ….F net !!!!!! Net is just one metric and it has been proven by some teams ( us , Xavier) to be very badly flawed !!!!
 
OrlandoCuse said:
NCAA created the stupid thing so they’re going to use it. They may realize it’s garbage and needs to be revamped, but that won’t help us this year.
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They won't revamp it mid-way as you say. They are not going to ask the committee to work with anything different. Wouldn't be fair, even if the system isn't clicking properly.

If they wanted they could easily create a 50%/50% model of the NET and RPI, and then re-spit out Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4 records, as it flattens out many of the team that feasted on Q4. Which in my opinion might be long term solution, but no way they would do that in the current year.
 
jncuse said:
They won't revamp it mid-way as you say. They are not going to ask the committee to work with anything different. Wouldn't be fair, even if the system isn't clicking properly.

If they wanted they could easily create a 50%/50% model of the NET and RPI, and then re-spit out Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4 records. Which in my opinion might be long term solution, but no way they would do that in the current year.
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net sucks
 
jncuse said:
They won't revamp it mid-way as you say. They are not going to ask the committee to work with anything different. Wouldn't be fair, even if the system isn't clicking properly.

If they wanted they could easily create a 50%/50% model of the NET and RPI, and then re-spit out Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4 records, as it flattens out many of the team that feasted on Q4. Which in my opinion might be long term solution, but no way they would do that in the current year.
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I would love to see you give us an in-depth analysis of this in the off-season.
 
Niastri said:
I figured I would top this thread again, since it seems just as relevant as ever after this game.

We can't seem to do anything easily.

ACC road win, and will probably stay flat or go down in the NET.

Just brilliant work gaming the NET this season to make us look as bad as possible! ;)

I know it's probably a fluke season, but it's been amazing watching the team get big leads over and over, only to barely scratch out the win.
Expand...
I dont expect any movement. Louisville sucks. They lost to Depaul
 
pokercuse08 said:
At the end of the year, the order of games is irrelevant. So in the final NET rankings, it doesn't matter. NET is a flawed metric in my opinion, but the order of the games doesn't matter. Top 25 polls? Different story, but that's not what we're talking about here. Now, if you want to say that the early season numbers influence polls and narrative, then sure. But the numbers are the numbers.
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Except teams get better and worse over the course of the season

I e Syracuse better
Wisconsin and Virginia worse
 
SwagSocks said:
I dont expect any movement. Louisville sucks. They lost to Depaul
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If the team made five more FTs our net would move up

That's the stupidity of NET

Forget that we won start to finish, that we were up fifteen points at one point, on the road

We beat VaTech by 13 and saw minimal movement

Stupid
 
We were jumped by Yale who just stayed at 83 after beating Harvard by 20 at home.
Also by South Florida who moved from 85 to 79 after their 15 point win at Charlotte…
 
CuseBBall said:
We were jumped by Yale who just stayed at 83 after beating Harvard by 20 at home.
Also by South Florida who moved from 85 to 79 after their 15 point win at Charlotte…
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Basically need Clemson to be favored by 5 and then beat them by 15
 
I feel bad that walk ons may never play again bc of the NET. Everything from trend to an eyeball to smell test says we should at the least be on the bubble. NET seems like a joke. I know we used to cry when RPI or traveling outside of NY were complaints too. We will never be happy bc each system is flawed but we are a top 64 team deserving of a spot on the dance floor. SOS and 20 wins and our last 10 games should mean more than anything else.

The debate is stupid unless we win Tuesday anyway. But if we win Tuesday and lose round one of ACC and don’t get in then something is wrong.
 
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