Another year another disappointing tournament exit (long post to follow)

[Forza Azzurri]

Except Archer went to Nottingham.

Which I’m sure you knew. There’s not a lot of tradition at Ham so I feel obligated to defend what we’ve got.

Especially since I’m outnumbered by JD & FM folk.

LOL...True 'Dat.

I played lax at Ham in early 80s. We.Were.Awful. Full Stop.

Jamie Archer, Matt and Mike Abbott...is there anyone else?

 

[CousCuse]

A team's character is an expression of the coach's character.

 

[outoftownie]

LOL...True 'Dat.

I played lax at Ham in early 80s. We.Were.Awful. Full Stop.

Jamie Archer, Matt and Mike Abbott...is there anyone else?

They went to the state championship game in early 90s (91?) for class B. Had to have been others? Ryan Cummings, some of the Holdridge brothers were good players.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Disagree with you about Cook - he's got a great stick but he is undersized and needs a year in the weight room before he's ready to see any serious time (and I know I'm in the minority). I think when all is said and done that Berkman is going to be the better of the two.

Curious why you think Mangan is a lock to redshirt? I see him as the most D1 ready kid in the class - I'd put him on the man up team on day 1.

Some guys just have "it", Cook is one of them. He is a natural attackmen who this year has played midfield, SSDM, wing on faceoff pretty much every position but goalie and Close Defense. I was told by someone I trust Cook is one of the best lacrosse players to come out of this area in a while, said he saw him play goalie one time for his Crush team and he was making ridiculous saves that drew the attention of players and coaches from other teams who came over to watch the game. It may take him a year to acclimate and get the full benefits of a college S&C program but he's going to be a star.

As for Mangnan I am still a big fan but his numbers have gone down the last two years after excellent frosh and Sophomore campaigns. With so much depth in front of him plus another quality incoming group of middies he's really going to have to stand out to get PT especially with Dekso favoring his upperclassmen if the competition is close. Doesn't mean he can't force the coaching staffs hand but might be tough if almost everyone comes back.

 

[ForCuseSake]

LOL...True 'Dat.

I played lax at Ham in early 80s. We.Were.Awful. Full Stop.

Jamie Archer, Matt and Mike Abbott...is there anyone else?

Yes. There was decent talent in the 90s. Ryan Cummings transferred back home to SU after freshman year at JHU, Jamie O’Leary played at Navy. Other guys from the early mid-90s played at Navy and Dartmouth.

We went to the state finals in 1991 and lost to a Yorktown team with 4 All-Americans (Dave Marr, Roy Colsey, Rocco D’Andraia and Jason Foley). They also had two young guys named Carcaterra and Kavovit (eventual AAs and SU players).

Edit - Yorktown had an AA at every position (AT, MID, D, G)

That was a long afternoon.

 

[laxsummit]

Last person who is overwhelmed by circumstances is Donahue. He's calm and collected, his instruction is concise and he's in full control of his huddle ... Cornell is so tough that they lost the gb battle 37-20 but I understand that our wins are somewhat meaningless on this forum. Cuse had a wide 70-38 ground advantage the last two games yet still read negative slants from lead posters because they can cite plays where opponents got the ball, it is priceless ...The pass back to Cunningham was questionable given the proximity of two defenders who immediately checked him and cause the turnover that resulted in a goal. Thought Cuse was guilty a few times of ill advised passes that left a pole vulnerable to immediate checks which were not brutal at all , its how lax is played at lower competitive levels and should be allowed at this level. The pussification by the NCAA just has all guessing what is ok and what is not and Cornell read them right . I had no problem whatsoever with the refs letting that go even though it resulted in a goal by Cornell and little problem with officiating after rewatching the game... we not only hit a few pipes but whiffed on a few good crease passes to B Bomberry and one to Voight. Imperfection be damned , Bomberry also had some nice goals including that great scoop and late goal and the goalie also made some good stops on a few close shots by him as well as a pushed trickler in scrum around crease that went a foot wide..... On rewatch, it was apparent to me that locking Teat while effective on that player caused some number issues down low especially on effective screens. Cornell vision, passing and receiving near crease was sharp . That pass from Donville to Petersen was well defended and sometimes you just have to tip your cap to opponent . Thought our D for the most part played well and Madonna had a strong game to end a good season by him, do agree that the ebb and flow of our O was due to some line changes ... we executed poorly on emo plain and simple and they did not and that to me if where we lost the game.... Having made those critiques , Cuse team deserves acknowledgement that they otherwise played a strong game against a very good team , it was a game that was not decided until the final buzzer and could have gone either way.....Finally , very clear that young talent is abundant on this team, seems that many simply rely on Ty Xander's listings to draw their conclusions on recruiting which is rather shallow. ... This team just going to get better and take the next step up

 

[CousCuse]

Last person who is overwhelmed by circumstances is Donahue. He's calm and collected, his instruction is concise and he's in full control of his huddle ... Cornell is so tough that they lost the gb battle 37-20 but I understand that our wins are somewhat meaningless on this forum. Cuse had a wide 70-38 ground advantage the last two games yet still read negative slants from lead posters because they can cite plays where opponents got the ball, it is priceless ...The pass back to Cunningham was questionable given the proximity of two defenders who immediately checked him and cause the turnover that resulted in a goal. Thought Cuse was guilty a few times of ill advised passes that left a pole vulnerable to immediate checks which were not brutal at all , its how lax is played at lower competitive levels and should be allowed at this level. The pussification by the NCAA just has all guessing what is ok and what is not and Cornell read them right . I had no problem whatsoever with the refs letting that go even though it resulted in a goal by Cornell and little problem with officiating after rewatching the game... we not only hit a few pipes but whiffed on a few good crease passes to B Bomberry and one to Voight. Imperfection be damned , Bomberry also had some nice goals including that great scoop and late goal and the goalie also made some good stops on a few close shots by him as well as a pushed trickler in scrum around crease that went a foot wide... On rewatch, it was apparent to me that locking Teat while effective on that player caused some number issues down low especially on effective screens. Cornell vision, passing and receiving near crease was sharp . That pass from Donville to Petersen was well defended and sometimes you just have to tip your cap to opponent . Thought our D for the most part played well and Madonna had a strong game to end a good season by him, do agree that the ebb and flow of our O was due to some line changes ... we executed poorly on emo plain and simple and they did not and that to me if where we lost the game... Having made those critiques , Cuse team deserves acknowledgement that they otherwise played a strong game against a very good team , it was a game that was not decided until the final buzzer and could have gone either way...Finally , very clear that young talent is abundant on this team, seems that many simply rely on Ty Xander's listings to draw their conclusions on recruiting which is rather shallow. ... This team just going to get better and take the next step up

Cornell wanted it more. It's not that complicated.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Honest question: Does anyone at Syracuse University care about the downward trajectory of a non-revenue generating sport? While lacrosse has more visibility than any of the other sports, is the University losing any significant money by the recent performance? I feel like that would be the biggest driver of change at this point and it's just not there. The people that care the most are those of us in this thread.

I get charging top dollar for basketball. But they should really be letting any and everyone into the Dome for lacrosse given how popular the sport is in the community and how high youth participation is (compared to hockey where its non existent despite the Crunch having great fans.) It should be 5/10 bucks for adults and kids are free. You'll make it back in beer sales.

We need Lacrosse to carry the torch for non revenue sports and make people not care there is no baseball or hockey (we don't need either) and be a bright spot if football and basketball don't live up to expectations.

The thing with replacing Desko is I don't trust an outsider to do a full blown rebuild given how competitive the landscape is and how most programs in the top leagues are 1-2 good recruiting classes away from potentially winning a National title. Even teams you don't think about as power houses could be really good in a couple of years and win one like Denver did. I'd fire him and hire someone else after next year if we don't have tournament success so you know the new guy has a good team to work with can't give the next guy a crappy team and expect it to work out well the alumni will revolt if an outsider gets the job and doesn't win immediately. If we end up in the gutter I'm not sure there is a better option Desko is a good enough coach that we'll rebound and get to the level we're currently at some way or another. But change is good.

We really need someone who will really go after the top NA talent like Albany does we should never not have first crack at those stud players given our history and location. And run again. Drives me crazy when you allow the D to get set just so you can put some overrated offensive mid on the field.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Last person who is overwhelmed by circumstances is Donahue. He's calm and collected, his instruction is concise and he's in full control of his huddle ... Cornell is so tough that they lost the gb battle 37-20 but I understand that our wins are somewhat meaningless on this forum. Cuse had a wide 70-38 ground advantage the last two games yet still read negative slants from lead posters because they can cite plays where opponents got the ball, it is priceless ...The pass back to Cunningham was questionable given the proximity of two defenders who immediately checked him and cause the turnover that resulted in a goal. Thought Cuse was guilty a few times of ill advised passes that left a pole vulnerable to immediate checks which were not brutal at all , its how lax is played at lower competitive levels and should be allowed at this level. The pussification by the NCAA just has all guessing what is ok and what is not and Cornell read them right . I had no problem whatsoever with the refs letting that go even though it resulted in a goal by Cornell and little problem with officiating after rewatching the game... we not only hit a few pipes but whiffed on a few good crease passes to B Bomberry and one to Voight. Imperfection be damned , Bomberry also had some nice goals including that great scoop and late goal and the goalie also made some good stops on a few close shots by him as well as a pushed trickler in scrum around crease that went a foot wide... On rewatch, it was apparent to me that locking Teat while effective on that player caused some number issues down low especially on effective screens. Cornell vision, passing and receiving near crease was sharp . That pass from Donville to Petersen was well defended and sometimes you just have to tip your cap to opponent . Thought our D for the most part played well and Madonna had a strong game to end a good season by him, do agree that the ebb and flow of our O was due to some line changes ... we executed poorly on emo plain and simple and they did not and that to me if where we lost the game... Having made those critiques , Cuse team deserves acknowledgement that they otherwise played a strong game against a very good team , it was a game that was not decided until the final buzzer and could have gone either way...Finally , very clear that young talent is abundant on this team, seems that many simply rely on Ty Xander's listings to draw their conclusions on recruiting which is rather shallow. ... This team just going to get better and take the next step up

How do you explain a Div I team with multiple procedure calls (e.g. offsides) against them?

I’m not a Fire Desko guy. I don’t know how to explain 19-22 year old guys who have played the game for 10-15 years screwing that up.

And nobody is discounting the toughness of the schedule or the great plays made this season.

People expect success in May and that’s been missing for a long time.

 

[CousCuse]

When the interim coach at Cornell said to his team, lets get physical with these guys and the Orange didn't respond in kind, that said it all about Desko.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I get charging top dollar for basketball. But they should really be letting any and everyone into the Dome for lacrosse given how popular the sport is in the community and how high youth participation is (compared to hockey where its non existent despite the Crunch having great fans.) It should be 5/10 bucks for adults and kids are free. You'll make it back in beer sales.

It's $10 for adults and $5 for kids under 12 now.

If you let kids in for free, are you expecting the kids to buy more beer?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Cornell wanted it more. It's not that complicated.

When the interim coach at Cornell said to his team, lets get physical with these guys and the Orange didn't respond in kind, that said it all about Desko.

So... Tom Brady didn't want another Super Bowl ring last year, and Belichick is a bad coach.

Simple, isn't it.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

It's $10 for adults and $5 for kids under 12 now.

If you let kids in for free, are you expecting the kids to buy more beer?

 

[laxsummit]

Some guys just have "it", Cook is one of them. He is a natural attackmen who this year has played midfield, SSDM, wing on faceoff pretty much every position but goalie and Close Defense. I was told by someone I trust Cook is one of the best lacrosse players to come out of this area in a while, said he saw him play goalie one time for his Crush team and he was making ridiculous saves that drew the attention of players and coaches from other teams who came over to watch the game. It may take him a year to acclimate and get the full benefits of a college S&C program but he's going to be a star.

As for Mangnan I am still a big fan but his numbers have gone down the last two years after excellent frosh and Sophomore campaigns. With so much depth in front of him plus another quality incoming group of middies he's really going to have to stand out to get PT especially with Dekso favoring his upperclassmen if the competition is close. Doesn't mean he can't force the coaching staffs hand but might be tough if almost everyone comes back.

No one can say with any certainty what timetable these kids have or where they will stand coming in until they are in Orange practicing at Manley for weeks against this level of comp. That is when some will separate despite the headlines. HS performances matter but dont perfectly correlate to college performance. Physical maturity matters, some simply need time to get stronger or absorb schemes despite their talent. Last year, Seebold and Quinn were being touted as the latest and greatest by posters off ranking sites until they weren't. I do recall even one stating that their talents were so great that Winnauskaus saw the handwriting and decided to leave. Made me chuckle since no one here seemed to know how good and ready he was. Buttermore, Quinn, Seebold and others are likely now prepared to show their wares next year. Cuse yield on the 16 and 17 classes have been very good contrary to the bs that we are falling behind the recruiting process and hopefully 18 class can match and expand our talent core sooner than later

 

[CousCuse]

So... Tom Brady didn't want another Super Bowl ring last year, and Belichick is a bad coach.

Simple, isn't it.

If the refs were going to let Cornell bully the Orange, the coach has to react at that point. Put guys out there that will play nasty and tell the ref this is what you wanted. He let Cornell dictate the style of play. New England lost in the Superbowl, not in the first round at home, again.

 

[CreaseRat]

No one can say with any certainty what timetable these kids have or where they will stand coming in until they are in Orange practicing at Manley for weeks against this level of comp. That is when some will separate despite the headlines. HS performances matter but dont perfectly correlate to college performance. Physical maturity matters, some simply need time to get stronger or absorb schemes despite their talent. Last year, Seebold and Quinn were being touted as the latest and greatest by posters off ranking sites until they weren't. I do recall even one stating that their talents were so great that Winnauskaus saw the handwriting and decided to leave. Made me chuckle since no one here seemed to know how good and ready he was. Buttermore, Quinn, Seebold and others are likely now prepared to show their wares next year. Cuse yield on the 16 and 17 classes have been very good contrary to the bs that we are falling behind the recruiting process and hopefully 18 class can match and expand our talent core sooner than later

Good post. I think one thing to remember is that Jordan Evans came here as the #1 recruit in the nation and he never lived up to the expectations set in front of him by the media and fans. He had a very nice career but unfortunately probably considered to have had a sub career.

A lot of it is how a player fits into the offensive/defensive philosophy, how quickly they learn the sets, and how they make the adjustment to a more physical/quicker pace of play.

 

[laxsummit]

If the refs were going to let Cornell bully the Orange, the coach has to react at that point. Put guys out there that will play nasty and tell the ref this is what you wanted. He let Cornell dictate the style of play. New England lost in the Superbowl, not in the first round at home, again.

Now Cornell bullied us because they checked a defender catching a ball three feet away or Pulver

If the refs were going to let Cornell bully the Orange, the coach has to react at that point. Put guys out there that will play nasty and tell the ref this is what you wanted. He let Cornell dictate the style of play. New England lost in the Superbowl, not in the first round at home, again.

Now Cuse bullied because they checked some near bodies on a few plays and Pulver covered Solomon well. Comical

 

[CousCuse]

Now Cornell bullied us because they checked a defender catching a ball three feet away or Pulver

Now Cuse bullied because they checked some near bodies on a few plays and Pulver covered Solomon well. Comical

Got bullied right out of our own dome. And also, teams look at games in the dome, during the season and in the tourney, as an easy chance to get a good pelt against a soft over rated team that lives in the past.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Good post. I think one thing to remember is that Jordan Evans came here as the #1 recruit in the nation and he never lived up to the expectations set in front of him by the media and fans. He had a very nice career but unfortunately probably considered to have had a sub career.

A lot of it is how a player fits into the offensive/defensive philosophy, how quickly they learn the sets, and how they make the adjustment to a more physical/quicker pace of play.

Your spot on about Evans but the only similarity between him and Cook is that they both went to JD.

 

[JeremyCuse]

No one can say with any certainty what timetable these kids have or where they will stand coming in until they are in Orange practicing at Manley for weeks against this level of comp. That is when some will separate despite the headlines. HS performances matter but dont perfectly correlate to college performance. Physical maturity matters, some simply need time to get stronger or absorb schemes despite their talent. Last year, Seebold and Quinn were being touted as the latest and greatest by posters off ranking sites until they weren't. I do recall even one stating that their talents were so great that Winnauskaus saw the handwriting and decided to leave. Made me chuckle since no one here seemed to know how good and ready he was. Buttermore, Quinn, Seebold and others are likely now prepared to show their wares next year. Cuse yield on the 16 and 17 classes have been very good contrary to the bs that we are falling behind the recruiting process and hopefully 18 class can match and expand our talent core sooner than later

Not every recruit pans out or comes in and makes an immediate impact. Quinn was someone a lot of us thought could make an impact on the 2nd line but he appears to have been caught in a numbers game and was behind some of the other frosh midfielders. On the other hand a guy like Dordevic who several of us were high on did meet expectations and was a starter from Day 1 on the 1st mid line.

Recruiting in general has picked up especially in 2017 and this incoming class
(2016 was a nice uptick as well). The classes before that though struggled to make much of an impact at SU especially the 2013 and 2014 classes which were pretty bad by SU standards border-lining on disasters. 2019 is going to be a smaller class and has much less star power then the last three, its likely outside the top 10 at this point. Perhaps SU will add a couple of guys late or flip someone good but that class is definitely the outlier when you look at 2016-2020. Hoping we can improve it.


Nothing is for sure in recruiting but I am sky high on this incoming class and I have seen and heard enough on Cook to stick with my thoughts.

 

[laxsummit]

Got bullied right out of our own dome. And also, teams look at games in the dome, during the season and in the tourney, as an easy chance to get a good pelt against a soft over rated team that lives in the past.

You obviously have not seen pjysica

Not every recruit pans out or comes in and makes an immediate impact. Quinn was someone a lot of us thought could make an impact on the 2nd line but he appears to have been caught in a numbers game and was behind some of the other frosh midfielders. On the other hand a guy like Dordevic who several of us were high on did meet expectations and was a starter from Day 1 on the 1st mid line.

Recruiting in general has picked up especially in 2017 and this incoming class
(2016 was a nice uptick as well). The classes before that though struggled to make much of an impact at SU especially the 2013 and 2014 classes which were pretty bad by SU standards border-lining on disasters. 2019 is going to be a smaller class and has much less star power then the last three, its likely outside the top 10 at this point. Perhaps SU will add a couple of guys late or flip someone good but that class is definitely the outlier when you look at 2016-2020. Hoping we can improve it.


Nothing is for sure in recruiting but I am sky high on this incoming class and I have seen and heard enough on Cook to stick with my thoughts.

Not every recruit pans out or comes in and makes an immediate impact. Quinn was someone a lot of us thought could make an impact on the 2nd line but he appears to have been caught in a numbers game and was behind some of the other frosh midfielders. On the other hand a guy like Dordevic who several of us were high on did meet expectations and was a starter from Day 1 on the 1st mid line.

Recruiting in general has picked up especially in 2017 and this incoming class
(2016 was a nice uptick as well). The classes before that though struggled to make much of an impact at SU especially the 2013 and 2014 classes which were pretty bad by SU standards border-lining on disasters. 2019 is going to be a smaller class and has much less star power then the last three, its likely outside the top 10 at this point. Perhaps SU will add a couple of guys late or flip someone good but that class is definitely the outlier when you look at 2016-2020. Hoping we can improve it.


Nothing is for sure in recruiting but I am sky high on this incoming class and I have seen and heard enough on Cook to stick with my thoughts.

 

[Powellfan]

Didn't want to post this until after tge season but rumor is Donahue is the #1 target to take over at W. Genny.

Sorry, but this seems like a pretty big deal, if true - a coach who has been at Syracuse since I can remember, just up and leaving and no one is going to comment? I really like Donahue and can't say I blame him much for this year, I think it was a talent/youth issue more than a coaching issue as to why our offense struggled so much. The same guy behind those Rice/Donahue/Staats years didn't just forget how to coach. We spend countless hours debating Desko and who we would replace him with, but I haven't the fondest idea of where the University would go to find a new offense coordinator.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Sorry, but this seems like a pretty big deal, if true - a coach who has been at Syracuse since I can remember, just up and leaving and no one is going to comment? I really like Donahue and can't say I blame him much for this year, I think it was a talent/youth issue more than a coaching issue as to why our offense struggled so much. The same guy behind those Rice/Donahue/Staats years didn't just forget how to coach. We spend countless hours debating Desko and who we would replace him with, but I haven't the fondest idea of where the University would go to find a new offense coordinator.

Perhaps you mis-read my post, Donahue is West Genny's #1 target for the position from what I have heard. Certainly far from a done deal or anything like that.

Second SU would have a laundry list of potential candidates to fill that spot and the applications would be hitting Dekso's desk about 3 seconds after Donahue left.

 

[laxsummit]

"Several of us were high on Dordevic" . Given that he played almost exclusively in Oregon, went to few showcases and was injured at UA, did several fly to Oregon, have convos with Ryan Powell, watch tape or just read what IL and Xanders had to say. Dordevic was actually a much smaller athlete just a few years ago but his parents were taller and one could project him growing. Dont have to be taller for attack but ability to withstand checks helps. Given your familiarity with Cook, what is his likely frame? Many of Cuse recruits are recommended by contacts in the field more so than a publication that host events for pay. Cuse is informed of some special talents playing on hs fields by past players and contacts and then go to see for themselves. Reason why so many top recruiting classes have not resulted in chips is that some seemingly default to rankings . Ill give Marr credit for seeing Fields and Ireland for what they could become instead of being part of the herd

 

[laxsummit]

Sorry, but this seems like a pretty big deal, if true - a coach who has been at Syracuse since I can remember, just up and leaving and no one is going to comment? I really like Donahue and can't say I blame him much for this year, I think it was a talent/youth issue more than a coaching issue as to why our offense struggled so much. The same guy behind those Rice/Donahue/Staats years didn't just forget how to coach. We spend countless hours debating Desko and who we would replace him with, but I haven't the fondest idea of where the University would go to find a new offense coordinator.

Donahue is a excellent coach