Anyone else concerned over the lack of WR depth/development | Syracusefan.com

Anyone else concerned over the lack of WR depth/development

JeremyCuse

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First off Id like to note that Lemon and Chew have both been as good as advertised or that any of us could have expected for this year. That being said we are asking them to play nearly every offensive snap through 3 games and this rate I fear both will be burned out by the later part of the schedule.

Whats concerning to me is that there is little to no depth behind them should they need a breather for a series or two or god forbid an injury. Last year all we heard about was how good West looked now the kid cant even get on the field for a handful of plays? Flemmings been a no show as well and we havent run any designed plays for Kobena out of the slot. What about the two freshman? If West and Flemming arent getting it done we need to see if the two freshman can as we are going to need the depth for the BE part of the schedule not to mention next year when we lose Chew. I know some on this board are still high on Graham but he has what 2 catches in three games, can you imagine him as the second receiver if West or Lemon went down? Scary. Provo stepped up last week versus USC but hes injury prone and tends to disappear at times in the passing game. Not to mention that the TE depth behind him isnt exactly lighting the world on fire. Stevens seems OK but hes an upperclassmen and slower then me walking up the hill to the dome.

I really hope Marrone and Hackett try to work some of these other guys into the passing games over the next couple of games or were one injury away from have a much less effective passing gaame and with our Running game MIA so far this year we cant afford that.
 

Faegan

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I do agree and think that at some point the younger guys have to get snaps. To what degree is it Nassib's preference to go to a known quantity? I don't know the answer to that, though I will say I have seen a few plays where you can flat out see him working through his check downs.
 

JeremyCuse

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I do agree and think that at some point the younger guys have to get snaps. To what degree is it Nassib's preference to go to a known quantity? I don't know the answer to that, though I will say I have seen a few plays where you can flat out see him working through his check downs.

I agree that Nassib might have a preference but the issue to me is these guys arent even on the field period, and as you said Nassib seems to be goign through his reads better this year and sharing the ball.
 

rrlbees

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I don't know if I am concerned about their development or the depth, but I am concerned they get no PT which is an indicator of their development and depth. WR is one position where historically most teams, including SU, play from 4-6 guys. We have played 2 with Graham tossed in every once in awhile. Real surprised. I thought Flemming had improved a lot this spring and I had hopes for West but some have told me he just isn't that good. I also thought one of the true frosh would get some plays. While it is a great that the walk on Achionne is living his dream and caught a TD pass, him playing those snaps kind of told me something.
 

jr4750

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I agree completely... I have been very surprised to not see anyone outside of those two and Graham even get a ball thrown to them... Marrone has shown a desire to save plays for special games... Rutgers 09 - so maybe he is working in the young guys slowly. I think we despertely need them... Can't understand why Flemming who has great size can't get time at least on goal line scenarios. I would have much preferred a fade in the corner to him against USC as opposed to a throw in the flat to Dorian that went no where...
 

JeremyCuse

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I don't know if I am concerned about their development or the depth, but I am concerned they get no PT which is an indicator of their development and depth. WR is one position where historically most teams, including SU, play from 4-6 guys. We have played 2 with Graham tossed in every once in awhile. Real surprised. I thought Flemming had improved a lot this spring and I had hopes for West but some have told me he just isn't that good. I also thought one of the true frosh would get some plays. While it is a great that the walk on Achionne is living his dream and caught a TD pass, him playing those snaps kind of told me something.

I have heard the same rumblings on West but nothing bad on Flemming the fact he cant get on the field at all is very disconcerning. I agree on the true frosh I thought at least one of them would get some situation looks if nothing else at least Kobena in the slot. I have no issues with Marrone giving Acchione a little burn versus RI but if in Marrones mind hes ahead of West, FLemming, and the Frosh we have serious issues.
 

Chip

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Slightly concerned, but not overly concerned yet. My worry is that our offense might be too challenging to pick up for young WRs. And maybe that's better once we do have a stable of guys going through the system. But it can also be a recruiting challenge to the athlete that thinks he can play earlier (and perhaps can play earlier in another system).

But we'll see how it plays out. Hopefully it's just a short term thing and that West and Flemming are ready to take over next year, with Lemon still being his usual solid self.

I was a bit alarmed to see the walk on playing above those 2 in the URI game.
 

JeremyCuse

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Slightly concerned, but not overly concerned yet. My worry is that our offense might be too challenging to pick up for young WRs. And maybe that's better once we do have a stable of guys going through the system. But it can also be a recruiting challenge to the athlete that thinks he can play earlier (and perhaps can play earlier in another system).

But we'll see how it plays out. Hopefully it's just a short term thing and that West and Flemming are ready to take over next year, with Lemon still being his usual solid self.

I was a bit alarmed to see the walk on playing above those 2 in the URI game.

The two times Acchione caught balls Flemming was out there as well in a trips formation. At actually looked liek a good formation we could do a lot out of. Unfortunately I havent seen it since and god only knows if we will again all season.
 

cuseclappy

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i agree but in also regards it would be nice for us to be winning going away heading into a 4th quarter where we could hopefully get these guys some pt. i know there has been a package that i can recall twice being out there that included west and flemming (with acchione too). but besides that its been strictly lemon and chew.
 

sutomcat

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Slightly concerned, but not overly concerned yet. My worry is that our offense might be too challenging to pick up for young WRs. And maybe that's better once we do have a stable of guys going through the system. But it can also be a recruiting challenge to the athlete that thinks he can play earlier (and perhaps can play earlier in another system).

But we'll see how it plays out. Hopefully it's just a short term thing and that West and Flemming are ready to take over next year, with Lemon still being his usual solid self.

I was a bit alarmed to see the walk on playing above those 2 in the URI game.
First off Id like to note that Lemon and Chew have both been as good as advertised or that any of us could have expected for this year. That being said we are asking them to play nearly every offensive snap through 3 games and this rate I fear both will be burned out by the later part of the schedule.

Whats concerning to me is that there is little to no depth behind them should they need a breather for a series or two or god forbid an injury. Last year all we heard about was how good West looked now the kid cant even get on the field for a handful of plays? Flemmings been a no show as well and we havent run any designed plays for Kobena out of the slot. What about the two freshman? If West and Flemming arent getting it done we need to see if the two freshman can as we are going to need the depth for the BE part of the schedule not to mention next year when we lose Chew. I know some on this board are still high on Graham but he has what 2 catches in three games, can you imagine him as the second receiver if West or Lemon went down? Scary. Provo stepped up last week versus USC but hes injury prone and tends to disappear at times in the passing game. Not to mention that the TE depth behind him isnt exactly lighting the world on fire. Stevens seems OK but hes an upperclassmen and slower then me walking up the hill to the dome.

I really hope Marrone and Hackett try to work some of these other guys into the passing games over the next couple of games or were one injury away from have a much less effective passing gaame and with our Running game MIA so far this year we cant afford that.
Yes, I am concerned. We need someone else to emerge at some point during the season...you are right, Lemon and Chew got beat up badly last season and probably will again if they have to play almost every snap all season.

Alec has gotten a lot stronger since he was a frosh but he is a classic possession receiver who regularly takes hard hits on those balls he gets over the middle. Van has gotten stronger too I guess but I still wince everytime he gets tackled in the open field, afraid some limb is going to be popped off his body.

We probably shouldn't be discouraged. I don't think Alec started making big contributions until late his true frosh year. If true frosh play, they typically do little until late in the season. It takes a while to get the playbook down and get adjusted to the speed of the college game.

From what I have seen of the youngsters, Kobena is still really raw and I think his contributions will be limited mostly to special teams his frosh season. West has some size and plays a physical brand of ball. That helps. I like Flemming a lot and am kind of mystified why he isn't in the rotation now. I think blocking and maybe a general lack of physical play might be at issue here. Hale looks like he might be the best athlete of the bunch, but he probably needs a year to get stronger and tougher...did not play at a really high level of HS ball, which hurts him. Foster is another tough, physical kid who has a way of getting to balls thrown in his direction. And he has nice size too. If I had to guess who of this bunch is most likely to emerge, it would be West or Foster. And I think Foster, one of the last guys who got a schollie in the last class, is going to be the guy (if there is going to be a WR to emerge this season).

Standard disclaimer: this is based on very little observation of the players in question, null and void where prohibited, your mileage may vary.
 

chakka3421

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We would see them more if our 1st team would put more points on the board. Marrone looks to win each game and you have to go with your known playmakers in close games. Hopefully we can pull away early in the next 3 games to see more of the others get PT.
 

ImperialOrange

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The two times Acchione caught balls Flemming was out there as well in a trips formation. At actually looked liek a good formation we could do a lot out of. Unfortunately I havent seen it since and god only knows if we will again all season.

Might see it again this weekend. If a team wants to run a 4-4 base best thing to do is spread them out.
 

CiceroSwamp

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I am somewhat concerned with recruiting in general where it relates to skill players. They seem to be able solid recruits and under-the-radar recruits for other positions but skill talent so far doesnt seem to be making even a dent compared to GRob recruits. I believe GRob brought in Deleone Carter, Nassib, Mike Williams, Marcus Sales...and some lesser talents like Twon and Van Chew and I think Alec Lemon was his also. Some real talented kids (even if some had off field issues). Maybe some of Dougs guys will emerge but given that he has no issues playing young guys i have doubts that we have any real difference makers waiting at the skill positions
 

JeremyCuse

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I am somewhat concerned with recruiting in general where it relates to skill players. They seem to be able solid recruits and under-the-radar recruits for other positions but skill talent so far doesnt seem to be making even a dent compared to GRob recruits. I believe GRob brought in Deleone Carter, Nassib, Mike Williams, Marcus Sales...and some lesser talents like Twon and Van Chew and I think Alec Lemon was his also. Some real talented kids (even if some had off field issues). Maybe some of Dougs guys will emerge but given that he has no issues playing young guys i have doubts that we have any real difference makers waiting at the skill positions

Interesting take, not sure your wrong either. Dont forget Sales was a Grob recruit to. Im not saying Marrone cant recruit skill players yet but you are right the results so far are less then impressive. Though Dy Davis getting moved to D has worked out.
 

Czar

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The only gamebreaking skill player we've recruited so far in the Marrone years is AAM. The receivers we've recruited have all been raw, high upside recruits, no one coming in is a gamebreaker. Our QB recruiting has been kind of all over in the place in terms of the kind of player we're trying to get, the only consistent thing is that they're "mobile."
 

Cadillac

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Just think most WRs need time – years – to be ready.

Morant, Sales, who remembered Chew was even on the roster until Akron last year?

MWill is an exception (and actually, so is Lemon). High hopes for Cornelius though.
 

OrangeXtreme

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i agree but in also regards it would be nice for us to be winning going away heading into a 4th quarter where we could hopefully get these guys some pt. i know there has been a package that i can recall twice being out there that included west and flemming (with acchione too). but besides that its been strictly lemon and chew.

Rhode Island would have been the perfect opportunity to get everyone reps ... if only we had put the game away earlier.
 

Upstate

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I hope everyone realizes that we are talking about RF and TF's here. Foster, Hale...we can't expect a ton from them at this point. True frosh rarely make a big impact their first year, especially at a skill position, save some of the blue chippers.

While we should expect more of West, he really didn't have a season at all last year to learn, he was on crutches the entire time, wasn't in drills, so this is essentially his frosh year. Flemming is very thin, but strong, and actually did break into the rotation last year, playing late in the season. I'd expect him over West at this point. Don't know how fast Flemming is, but he looks like he can move based on his build, as well as looking like he can jump well, too.

Maybe I'm wrong, but playing in a BCS (for now) conference, it is difficult to break through in essentially most of these guys' first year. AAM is another example. Very few true freshmen can break into a lineup, or have packages for them, in a BCS offense, save guys like Crowell at UGA, or Lattimore at SC. Give them time, still a lot of room to grow, get stronger, get acclimated to speed/physicality.
 

OttoinGrotto

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The only gamebreaking skill player we've recruited so far in the Marrone years is AAM.
We really don't know that yet.
 

Czar

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We really don't know that yet.
I know but right now he's the only recruit we've had who people have said could contribute right away. So I'm just speaking on pure potential right now.
 

IthacaBarrel

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Good post J Cuse and I have been saying this since game 1. I think you have to be very concerned with the way Marrone is recruiting period but def the skill positions stick out like a sore thumb right now, we still don't have one Marrone recruit who has made any impact there and this is year 3. That alone is not good, at WR we don't have one getting any run at this point, In fact if Sales was on the team, we would not have one in the Top 5. That isn't good.

We always get the summer camp puff pieces how all the new guys are bigger and can run but we don't see any on the field and Graham is the only speed guy that gets any PT. The TE position is scary right now as well as you look to next year. Would not surprise me to see Max B start there next year, he's athletic enough for sure
 

IthacaBarrel

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Just think most WRs need time – years – to be ready.

Morant, Sales, who remembered Chew was even on the roster until Akron last year?

MWill is an exception (and actually, so is Lemon). High hopes for Cornelius though.

If a true frosh can play anywhere on the field it's running back or WR.
 

OttoinGrotto

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. I think you have to be very concerned with the way Marrone is recruiting period but def the skill positions stick out like a sore thumb right now, we still don't have one Marrone recruit who has made any impact there and this is year 3.
This terrifies me to be honest. I think we're fine for next season with what we have coming back, but there are going to be monster holes to fill for 2013.
 

Millhouse

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Good post J Cuse and I have been saying this since game 1. I think you have to be very concerned with the way Marrone is recruiting period but def the skill positions stick out like a sore thumb right now, we still don't have one Marrone recruit who has made any impact there and this is year 3. That alone is not good, at WR we don't have one getting any run at this point, In fact if Sales was on the team, we would not have one in the Top 5. That isn't good.

We always get the summer camp puff pieces how all the new guys are bigger and can run but we don't see any on the field and Graham is the only speed guy that gets any PT. The TE position is scary right now as well as you look to next year. Would not surprise me to see Max B start there next year, he's athletic enough for sure
anyone have any idea what kind of recruiter Rob Moore is?
 

IthacaBarrel

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This terrifies me to be honest. I think we're fine for next season with what we have coming back, but there are going to be monster holes to fill for 2013.

It's almost mind boggling, consdiering where the talent level was when Doug took over, that said there is/was a lot of damage that had been done on the recruiting front to overcome. It is still showing up with a half empty dome every Saturday, this doesn't look good at all to recruits. I am sure it isn't easy to recruit at Syracuse at all, fickle fan base, bad conference ( up until now) very mediocre facilities, and a pattern of losing
 

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