Anyone else worried about the offense yet?

[STEVEHOLT]

It really looks like we have two ways to score.

-off transition after forced turnovers.
-jump shots.

the first method is not going to be something a team can rely on against good competition who value the ball and know the zone.

the second method is something that NO team can consistently win with, especially in a single elimination tournament vs good teams. When the team is hitting its outside shots, we become enamored with how the offense looks...but when you really look at the process involved with how we score, it is at least concerning to me.

its not just lack of a post game..its lack of player movement and anything but the most obvious of high ball screens.

feel free to fry me because I realize the team is undefeated, but i see this as a fatal flaw that needs remedy

 

[mark79]

Our half court offense is mostly one on one. I DON'T want to start a dion debate but he is our best penetrator. We need to get him back to doing that. And of course work on Fab's post game but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

It really looks like we have two ways to score.

-off transition after forced turnovers.
-jump shots.

the first method is not going to be something a team can rely on against good competition who value the ball and know the zone.

the second method is something that NO team can consistently win with, especially in a single elimination tournament vs good teams. When the team is hitting its outside shots, we become enamored with how the offense looks...but when you really look at the process involved with how we score, it is at least concerning to me.

its not just lack of a post game..its lack of player movement and anything but the most obvious of high ball screens.

feel free to fry me because I realize the team is undefeated, but i see this as a fatal flaw that needs remedy

I've been worried about our offense for several games now. My gut says that it is a fatal flaw in terms of winning it all, although a team or two has won a NC on the basis of being a great defensive team.

A better offense can evolve, but it WILL have to evolve because it has been plain for awhile now that there limitations in that area.

 

[orangefan13]

Agree. But I think the problem is just efficeincy. I think the player and ball movement has been pretty good especially this early in the season.Maybe its just me but in the last few games...

Not to give a million things but 5 things we are better at this year.
1. Melo is getting some quick points in the low post and playing good with Scoop.
2. We are hitting midrange jumpers off the dribble and from set positions from atleast 4-5 guys. And thats jumpers not including the floaters.
3.We have been passing it around the perimeter and headfaking from three before getting a good look.
4. Triche and Dion get a nice cut to the basket for a bucket here and there.
Those are just some of the positives.
5. Scoop and our isolation guards/forwards are running a no high post offense successfully which is leading to some low post and baseline buckets, spreading opponents defenses and making them work.

Rak, CJ, Southerland, and KJo need to hit the offensive board more. If they have to box out in a hesitation rebound to reset the offense instead of flying in for a putback highlight then make it happen. Efficiency first always.
Can't wait to Rak starts sliding/rolling off defenders and grabbing some offensive boards.

We shot 17% from three and 40% from the field against florida.
We shot 27% from three and 41% from the field against Marshall.
Thats not going to cut it efficiency wise.

Against eastern michigan we shot 43% from three and 50% from the field for 84 points

We shot 40% from the field and less then 30 from three the last two games and they weren't bad looks.

 

[Orangezoo]

Not worried at all, JB keyed in on the offense needing to be better and I expect we will see some improved half court sets against gw. fab and rakeem are body ing their guys up to get position we just need to open up passing lanes to get them the ball. too much over reaction going on. Marshall and Florida did a good job playing aggressive d and denying entry passes nd csticking to their man. fully expect to see fab start to get the rock down low more. JB will get them shaped up on off.

 

[shermstheman]

I get the idea that most of their practice has been on the defensive end. Now that it's solid they will probably improve on offense. Certainly there is a lot of talent, good leadership, and a variety of options so by the time the BE begins I suspect we'll look better. It sure does look ugly now though...it's a bigger mountain to climb than I would have suspected.

 

[cuseincincy]

Not really. Most good SU teams offense has been a factor of their defense. This team likes to push it up the floor, Marshall did a good job getting back and we didn't finish. Half court the only thing I'd like to see more of is Fab fed on the block. I think that jump hook of his would be great from 6-8 ft, not so much 10-12.

 

[billsin01]

I've been worried about our offense for several games now. My gut says that it is a fatal flaw in terms of winning it all, although a team or two has won a NC on the basis of being a great defensive team.

A better offense can evolve, but it WILL have to evolve because it has been plain for awhile now that there limitations in that area.

I agree. I don't think this is a Final 4 team for this reason and I really don't think there's much hope of it evolving. Next year is a different story with a more seasoned Fab/Xmas combo as well as the addition of Coleman (presumably). But I fear the offense we're seeing is the offense. I'm not worried about it for that reason -- I don't think it will change and I do think it will ultimately be the undoing of this team.

 

[SoBeCuse]

It really looks like we have two ways to score.

-off transition after forced turnovers.
-jump shots.

the first method is not going to be something a team can rely on against good competition who value the ball and know the zone.

the second method is something that NO team can consistently win with, especially in a single elimination tournament vs good teams. When the team is hitting its outside shots, we become enamored with how the offense looks...but when you really look at the process involved with how we score, it is at least concerning to me.

its not just lack of a post game..its lack of player movement and anything but the most obvious of high ball screens.

feel free to fry me because I realize the team is undefeated, but i see this as a fatal flaw that needs remedy

I said the same thing in the chat last night. Transition, jump shots, like you say and an occasional high-low. Marshall would've killed us if they could hit some shots. JB summed it up best at the presser. Paraphrasing he said something like that under no interpretation or definition of good offense are we playing good offense. Not even close. He is also concerned about rebounding. Too many times I see Kris standing around watching somebody snatch a rebound right in front of him. I personally think our offensive struggles are a combination of no post game, players aptitude, lack of PG quickness (Scoop). If this continues then teams with size and shooting ability could really maul us since we can't score. I think Kris REALLY bogs the offense down as does Scoop. If he isn't shooting Kris isn't doing much good with the ball. He wastes time trying to dribble nowhere. These are valid concerns, imo.

 

[billsin01]

I honestly think a big key is getting Joseph the ball in that spot about 15 feet away from the basket on the wing with his back to the basket. From there he can back a defender down and hit a turnaround mid-range j, spin baseline and try to finish/draw contact, pass out of a double if it comes, etc. I'd love to see that 4-5 times a half instead of the one time I've seen it (vs. Florida) this season.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I honestly think a big key is getting Joseph the ball in that spot about 15 feet away from the basket on the wing with his back to the basket. From there he can back a defender down and hit a turnaround mid-range j, spin baseline and try to finish/draw contact, pass out of a double if it comes, etc. I'd love to see that 4-5 times a half instead of the one time I've seen it (vs. Florida) this season.

Good call. That would be more productive. I don't want to see the globetrotter routine behind the three-point line anymore. How is this allowed?? I don't see any high-profile player doing this on any other team. The useless crossovers and dribbles back and forth wasting time.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I mostly agree and the half court offense has been pretty rough for a few seasons now. We simply don't have an interior presence and our shooters are mostly mediocre and inconsistent. The commitment to opportunistic defense needs to continue. The team needs those fast break chances and to limit the opponent's opportunities. I don't know if there is a fix or what it'd be, but I do know taking better care of the ball is a start. Running more sets and getting cleaner shots would also help, but I think the one on one game isn't going anywhere.

I do think a team relying on the jumper can win, but they need top outside shooting options. We don't have that ability unfortunately.

 

[RoysRunts]

Not really. Most good SU teams offense has been a factor of their defense. This team likes to push it up the floor, Marshall did a good job getting back and we didn't finish. Half court the only thing I'd like to see more of is Fab fed on the block. I think that jump hook of his would be great from 6-8 ft, not so much 10-12.

The Eagle with a Beards left hand Hook shot was better, But who alive can teach it correctly? Dolph....

 

[shandeezy7]

What makes you think we can't keep up the defensive effort against better teams? We did against Florida, and they are a top 10 team. We also did against Stanford and VA Tech, who are both borderline tournament teams.

 

[cuseincincy]

The Eagle with a Beards left hand Hook shot was better, But who alive can teach it correctly? Dolph....

True hook shot is almost unseen these days. Lots of players shoot the jump hook. Main difference is the hook shot your body is sideways to the hoop and your arm movement is sweeping from the shoulder (at minimum) over head. The jump hook is really more of a turn around, face the basket, ball straight up, arm extended, flick of the wrist. If done quickly enough it is very tough to defend.

 

[reedny]

Per Cincy's post (and photos), I think the main problem with our (half court) offense is that we don't feed the interior guys. Fab's drawing doubles sometimes, but he often gets the defender on his hip and calls for the ball -- they just don't throw it to him. Same with X-mas.. how many times has he begged for the ball?

Yes we get it inside when the guards penetrate -- DW is great at this, along with Triche and Scoop. But you can't always penetrate. We have to be able to PASS the ball inside (as opposed to dribbling it) to establish better balance and give our outside guys some room to shoot.

2 years ago we had AO to do this. Last year we had Rick. Both guys got position, called for the ball and received it. It's just not happening yet this year and it's very frustrating ... small wonder we're not shooting that well from the outside -- since we don't feed the post, defenders cheat out on us and we're stuck with contested shots.
I wish JB would tell the guards not to shoot or dribble for 5 minutes. Pound the ball inside and let Fab and X-mas develop their games.

 

[JOC44]

The offense isn't going to be good all year. We don't havbe any dead-eye outside shooters or really accomplished post-up players. Dion and Joseph can drive but have questionable decision-making. Triche can drive but lacks quickness. Scoop, well, don't get me started. I love Fair but he a garbageman offensively.

On the other hand, the defense could be really special.

 

[cuseincincy]

The offense isn't going to be good all year. We don't havbe any dead-eye outside shooters or really accomplished post-up players. Dion and Joseph can drive but have questionable decision-making. Triche can drive but lacks quickness. Scoop, well, don't get me started. I love Fair but he a garbageman offensively.
On the other hand, the defense could be really special.

Agreed. No distributing point guard, no "dead-eye" shooters, no post-up players. This is a defensive team with some very talented athletes.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

What makes you think we can't keep up the defensive effort against better teams? We did against Florida, and they are a top 10 team. We also did against Stanford and VA Tech, who are both borderline tournament teams.

Well, for one thing, conference games will be more difficult simply because those teams are far more familiar with our zone and the better teams will at least not simply throw the ball away as often as our opponents have been.

And as you stated, Vtech and stanford are borderline tournament teams...in the NCAA after round 1 you are not likely to face many of those teams. You have to win four in a row to get to the final four (which by my definition is always a success regardless of winning the entire thing).

If we are discussing teams capable of winning it all, I dont see how we stack up there with UK, Ohio state, UNC..they simply have more ways to score than we do. Id put us more on the Duke level with jump shooters and transition scorers. Id also put Mizzou, Xavier, Louisville, and uconn on that rung just below the top tier...maybe baylor

 

[AZOrange]

I will be concerned if we miss layups and open jumpers the rest of the year. Other than that, not too concerned. We are taking pretty high percentage shots (just didnt make alot of them last night).

 

[moqui]

If we are discussing teams capable of winning it all, I dont see how we stack up there with UK, Ohio state, UNC..they simply have more ways to score than we do. Id put us more on the Duke level with jump shooters and transition scorers. Id also put Mizzou, Xavier, Louisville, and uconn on that rung just below the top tier...maybe baylor

I think you still have them overrated by putting them on the second tier. I have believed all year (indeed, since last March) that Syracuse is a first weekend team only

To be even more clear: Syracuse has a second weekend defense, but a first weekend offense and, in March, it is very difficult to advance if you cannot score. I foresee a lot of empty possessions for SU once the conference season begins.

 

[iommi]

Leaving this year aside, our biggest recruiting need is a pure scoring 3. I love CJ but I have doubts he'll be a go-to0guy in Orange. To me, he's an outstanding glue guy. Now I realize that Carmelos come around once every 20 years but can't we find and get anyone who is at least a poor man's version of what Carmelo was in Orange. Do we have anyone on our radar screen who is a possible get that fits the bill?

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think you still have them overrated by putting them on the second tier. I have believed all year (indeed, since last March) that Syracuse is a first weekend team only

To be even more clear: Syracuse has a second weekend defense, but a first weekend offense and, in March, it is very difficult to advance if you cannot score. I foresee a lot of empty possessions for SU once the conference season begins.

Unfortunate but true. Even with Jackson there was a lot of offensive slop. Now it is really painful to watch. I was really impressed watching Missouri's guards last night school and even more impressed with Will Barton on Memphis. His game has REALLY improved. They are hard to find but we need to find 3s who are strong with the ball. Joseph wastes so many possessions doing nothing and trying to dribble around. I like CJ put he dosn't do much other than putbacks and dosn't really dribble well. Hopefully Jerami Grant has more upside here.

 

[Blaster]

I heard since FB is over JB called Marrone to see if he could borrow Hackett to coach the PG's and call the offensive sets. FWIW its just a rumor i heard