Are we a Mid-Major in Football? | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Are we a Mid-Major in Football?

We are a power-5 bottom feeder whose teams have not been better than a mid-major for years. "Mid-major" and "Power-5" are about who you play, not who you are. We are trying to get up off the canvas so we can compete in a power five conference. And we are doing it in a loaded division that badly needs to be adjusted. The hardest steel may be forged in the hottest flame but if it stays in the flame, it's never going to get hard.

That's why I'd like to see them adjust the divisions each year based on the previous year's results. Rank the teams 1-14 and have an "odd" division with #1-3-5-7-9-11-13 and an even division with #2-4-6-8-10-12-14. You play everybody in your division and two teams form the other division, one of mutual choice and the other the team that you haven't played in the longest time.

I think the level Syracuse is at is the hardest job for a coach. in high school it's about building up youth programs and teaching the game. In Division III it's about teaching the game and developing a winning reputations so that the real student-athletes who want to play football will choose your school rather than that of a rival. In DII, FCS and the non-Power 5 FBS teams, (mid-majors), it's about looking for late bloomers and under-the radar types with an occasional FBS refugee, "coaching them up", developing innovative schemes to maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses, earning that winning reputation and dominating your conference. The mid-majors schools also want to play 1-2 Power 5 schools and pull off the occasional upset to put themselves on the map. If they can do that over a period of years, they will be a regular in the rankings and move up to contend for major bowls and even the playoffs. But they've always got their weak conference to make sure they stay afloat, record wise.

For the true powerhouses, they are on the short list of any recruit they contact and can choose from the cream of the crop. they will win most of their games just on talent. Strategically, they are often uncomplicated, just relying on their superior talent to win most of their games. In the NFL, the franchise acquires the talent and the players they acquire are elite, self-motivated athletes, (if they aren't they will be replaced by someone who is). The coach's job is to game-plan and make good in-game decisions.

At Syracuse's level, which I would call Power-5 non-powerhouse, you have to get the B listers and C listers, the under-the-radar types and the late bloomers, coach them up, motive them, condition them, come up with innovative game plans that maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses and hopefully attract better recruits than you would normally get and do a great job of managing games. You pull off some upsets, earn respect and entertain people. You don't become Florida State or Alabama but maybe you can become Baylor or Oregon.

That's why I think a coach like Dino Babers, who comes from the Baylor system and has had success at FCS and in the MAC is perfect for Syracuse. A guy like Greg Robinson, who has been coaching in the NFL at at powerhouse schools, is not.
 
We are a power-5 bottom feeder whose teams have not been better than a mid-major for years. "Mid-major" and "Power-5" are about who you play, not who you are. We are trying to get up off the canvas so we can compete in a power five conference. And we are doing it in a loaded division that badly needs to be adjusted. The hardest steel may be forged in the hottest flame but if it stays in the flame, it's never going to get hard.

That's why I'd like to see them adjust the divisions each year based on the previous year's results. Rank the teams 1-14 and have an "odd" division with #1-3-5-7-9-11-13 and an even division with #2-4-6-8-10-12-14. You play everybody in your division and two teams form the other division, one of mutual choice and the other the team that you haven't played in the longest time.

I think the level Syracuse is at is the hardest job for a coach. in high school it's about building up youth programs and teaching the game. In Division III it's about teaching the game and developing a winning reputations so that the real student-athletes who want to play football will choose your school rather than that of a rival. In DII, FCS and the non-Power 5 FBS teams, (mid-majors), it's about looking for late bloomers and under-the radar types with an occasional FBS refugee, "coaching them up", developing innovative schemes to maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses, earning that winning reputation and dominating your conference. The mid-majors schools also want to play 1-2 Power 5 schools and pull off the occasional upset to put themselves on the map. If they can do that over a period of years, they will be a regular in the rankings and move up to contend for major bowls and even the playoffs. But they've always got their weak conference to make sure they stay afloat, record wise.

For the true powerhouses, they are on the short list of any recruit they contact and can choose from the cream of the crop. they will win most of their games just on talent. Strategically, they are often uncomplicated, just relying on their superior talent to win most of their games. In the NFL, the franchise acquires the talent and the players they acquire are elite, self-motivated athletes, (if they aren't they will be replaced by someone who is). The coach's job is to game-plan and make good in-game decisions.

At Syracuse's level, which I would call Power-5 non-powerhouse, you have to get the B listers and C listers, the under-the-radar types and the late bloomers, coach them up, motive them, condition them, come up with innovative game plans that maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses and hopefully attract better recruits than you would normally get and do a great job of managing games. You pull off some upsets, earn respect and entertain people. You don't become Florida State or Alabama but maybe you can become Baylor or Oregon.

That's why I think a coach like Dino Babers, who comes from the Baylor system and has had success at FCS and in the MAC is perfect for Syracuse. A guy like Greg Robinson, who has been coaching in the NFL at at powerhouse schools, is not.

if I could like this post 10x, I would.
 
We are a power-5 bottom feeder whose teams have not been better than a mid-major for years. "Mid-major" and "Power-5" are about who you play, not who you are. We are trying to get up off the canvas so we can compete in a power five conference. And we are doing it in a loaded division that badly needs to be adjusted. The hardest steel may be forged in the hottest flame but if it stays in the flame, it's never going to get hard.

That's why I'd like to see them adjust the divisions each year based on the previous year's results. Rank the teams 1-14 and have an "odd" division with #1-3-5-7-9-11-13 and an even division with #2-4-6-8-10-12-14. You play everybody in your division and two teams form the other division, one of mutual choice and the other the team that you haven't played in the longest time.

I think the level Syracuse is at is the hardest job for a coach. in high school it's about building up youth programs and teaching the game. In Division III it's about teaching the game and developing a winning reputations so that the real student-athletes who want to play football will choose your school rather than that of a rival. In DII, FCS and the non-Power 5 FBS teams, (mid-majors), it's about looking for late bloomers and under-the radar types with an occasional FBS refugee, "coaching them up", developing innovative schemes to maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses, earning that winning reputation and dominating your conference. The mid-majors schools also want to play 1-2 Power 5 schools and pull off the occasional upset to put themselves on the map. If they can do that over a period of years, they will be a regular in the rankings and move up to contend for major bowls and even the playoffs. But they've always got their weak conference to make sure they stay afloat, record wise.

For the true powerhouses, they are on the short list of any recruit they contact and can choose from the cream of the crop. they will win most of their games just on talent. Strategically, they are often uncomplicated, just relying on their superior talent to win most of their games. In the NFL, the franchise acquires the talent and the players they acquire are elite, self-motivated athletes, (if they aren't they will be replaced by someone who is). The coach's job is to game-plan and make good in-game decisions.

At Syracuse's level, which I would call Power-5 non-powerhouse, you have to get the B listers and C listers, the under-the-radar types and the late bloomers, coach them up, motive them, condition them, come up with innovative game plans that maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses and hopefully attract better recruits than you would normally get and do a great job of managing games. You pull off some upsets, earn respect and entertain people. You don't become Florida State or Alabama but maybe you can become Baylor or Oregon.

That's why I think a coach like Dino Babers, who comes from the Baylor system and has had success at FCS and in the MAC is perfect for Syracuse. A guy like Greg Robinson, who has been coaching in the NFL at at powerhouse schools, is not.
Superb post!!!! My only disagreement with it is that there are D-3 teams and D-3 Teams. There are D-3 schools that have sports teams for the very reasons you list. But there are others like Mt. Union in football, for example, who bring what amounts to a D-1A philosophy/approach/attitude toward their sport.
 
This thread should buy some google ad words for 'useless offseason college football conversations'. Then it can bubble to the top.

Is anyone going to define mid major, or do we just get to move the goalposts wherever we'd like.
 
I'd argue that after Miami, VT, BC left the big east in 2004, the conference was weakened to the point you might call it a mid major..(the remaining big east are- aac)

5 years back in a legit P5. We all know how the 3 years with Schafer went. Not worried about the future.
 
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Can we have this thread moved to the Rutgers fan board?
 
Superb post!!!! My only disagreement with it is that there are D-3 teams and D-3 Teams. There are D-3 schools that have sports teams for the very reasons you list. But there are others like Mt. Union in football, for example, who bring what amounts to a D-1A philosophy/approach/attitude toward their sport.


You wonder how they get away with that. maybe it should be like the English soccer leagues, where if you dominate at one level, you move up. If you can't compete at one level, you move down.
 
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You wodner how they get away with that. maybe it should be like the English soccer leagues, where if you dominate at one level, you move up. If you can't compete at one level, you move down.
You might want to ask Hobart lacrosse fans about that.
 
No.

We are in a weird spot. Our recent 4-8 seasons haven't been that bad since our schedule is such a gauntlet. Its weird. I enjoy Cuse football as much as I have since 2001 before I was a student. This isn't a grob ugly era I like these teams. I liked Schaeffer too.

The Mahoney games were a wash we never had a chance I like the kid for being more than serviceable and fighting but we had no shot any time he started.


Next year is our only break in the schedule. Cupcakes and blue bloods are the early season games then it lets up and we bring back the best QB in the country. I've never been more excited. Dungey will be trucking guys behind our beast O line.

And for the record if we were in the Atlantic we'd be killing it we'd have those big seasons BC did when they jumped and had Ryan. We'd throttle garbage like UVA regularly. That is the truth. All those teams suck. Our half is killer and Wake/BC are very good. Its brutal. 2018 the schedule breaks for once I can't wait.
 
And for the record if we were in the Atlantic we'd be killing it we'd have those big seasons BC did when they jumped and had Ryan. We'd throttle garbage like UVA regularly. That is the truth. All those teams suck. Our half is killer and Wake/BC are very good. Its brutal. 2018 the schedule breaks for once I can't wait.

By my count, we are 2-8 versus the ACC Coastal (we're in the Atlantic) since we joined the league, so making bold proclamations like we'd be "killing it" if we were in the Coastal appears to be a bit of a misguided assumption.
 
By my count, we are 2-8 versus the ACC Coastal (we're in the Atlantic) since we joined the league, so making bold proclamations like we'd be "killing it" if we were in the Coastal appears to be a bit of a misguided assumption.


Pitt has our number historically.

We play well vs VT, Miami, WVU etc but not them. Half the games are probably against those . Remember we NEVER play VT or Miami anymore with this stupid ass setup.
 
Pitt has our number historically.

We play well vs VT, Miami, WVU etc but not them. Half the games are probably against those . Remember we NEVER play VT or Miami anymore with this stupid ass setup.

Our only two Coastal wins are Pitt and Va Tech. Yes, we have lost to Pitt 4 out of the 5 times that we've played them in the ACC, but we have also lost to Georgia Tech, Virginia, Miami and Duke. Basically, there's almost no evidence at this point that we would have been any better in the Coastal vs. the Atlantic. In fact, the evidence points in the opposite direction.

Last year was a step in the right direction from a competitive standpoint (and we finally beat Pitt), but let's get more than 4 wins in a season before we make proclamations like we would dominate any schedule in the ACC.
 
Our only two Coastal wins are Pitt and Va Tech. Yes, we have lost to Pitt 4 out of the 5 times that we've played them in the ACC, but we have also lost to Georgia Tech, Virginia, Miami and Duke. Basically, there's almost no evidence at this point that we would have been any better in the Coastal vs. the Atlantic. In fact, the evidence points in the opposite direction.

Last year was a step in the right direction from a competitive standpoint (and we finally beat Pitt), but let's get more than 4 wins in a season before we make proclamations like we would dominate any schedule in the ACC.

Its not proclamations we just didn't get a BC early 2000s break we ran into a friggen gauntlet. I mean FSU wins a Natty and are at the peak Bowdon levels most years (remember the leads that Auburn blew vs them or Ole Miss and swag Kelly FSU won those games despite being behind big time both games came back just on talent alone) and Clemson is the most loaded team in the country besides Alabama no questions asked. Beat them last year of course. Our schedule is brutal.

Just saying Cuse football has been fun to watch when Dungey plays. Noone will question that.

Its 2018 Dungey is as good as any returning QB due for a full year of health our coach is excellent the line is great and its just gonna be a really fun season.

We don't get trash like UVA on our schedule every year its just a bad beat playing the teams we do and Wake and BC are good right now no easy games. But this will be a fun season our line and QB are lights out coach is excellent should be a lot of fun.
 
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Wow.
Nothing against the OP, but the fact that someone would even ask such a question is unfathomable to me.
So, we're not Bama, OSU, ND, or USC...but a mid-major? Seriously?
Notwithstanding our tradition, records, HOF'ers, P5 status, etc?
Only because of some down years, which of course are exacerbated by the now-dominant NEGATOID's in our "choose to be miserable" fanbase, some folks are actually asking such a stupid question? Unreal the amount of self-loathing that exists here at times.
 
Yeah, it was worded poorly, but it's just another talent question-which appears to be improving.

I still think the 2000's recruiting was affected by the Demise of the big east. Iirc, there were potential lawsuits that were going to get filed in 2004? Because the departures made a less competitive conference... Less $$, tougher recruiting..

Then add UConn, temple, Cincinnati , south fla,toward the end.. and it was a less appealing conference for recruits.

Now that we're back in a proper conference, I see no point lumping those years into our current situation.
 
Yeah, it was worded poorly, but it's just another talent question-which appears to be improving.

I still think the 2000's recruiting was affected by the Demise of the big east. Iirc, there were potential lawsuits that were going to get filed in 2004? Because the departures made a less competitive conference... Less $$, tougher recruiting..

Then add UConn, temple, Cincinnati , south fla,toward the end.. and it was a less appealing conference for recruits.

Now that we're back in a proper conference, I see no point lumping those years into our current situation.


Our recruiting declined in the late 90's, which is why we were unable to sustain our level of success. G-Rob was brought in to reverse the trend but he accelerated it. Marrone was brought in to rebuild and he started that process but left before it was finished. Shafer was promoted to his level of incompetence. Babers definitely has the potential to bring us back to where we were but we need to get into the air before he runs out of runway.
 
Two things I learned in this thread:

1.) Someone created a Wikipedia page for Yukon fans to learn their proper place.

2.) “Folks very knowledgeable with our football program” would call us mid-major.

One is hilarious and the other is depressing.
 
Our recruiting declined in the late 90's, which is why we were unable to sustain our level of success. G-Rob was brought in to reverse the trend but he accelerated it. Marrone was brought in to rebuild and he started that process but left before it was finished. Shafer was promoted to his level of incompetence. Babers definitely has the potential to bring us back to where we were but we need to get into the air before he runs out of runway.
Sure. My larger point is that I think conference affiliation can help/hinder a program, and I think it was another part of the equation.

If some how, let's say UConn(no couscous I'm Not saying UMass) were to wind up in a more legit conference, their recruiting should improve based on it. Shafer didn't capitalize. Babers is recruiting in the middle, of a legit P5 conference. It should pay dividends soon.
 
Pitt has our number historically.

We play well vs VT, Miami, WVU etc but not them. Half the games are probably against those . Remember we NEVER play VT or Miami anymore with this stupid ass setup.
Depends on what part of history you're talking about. The series is relatively close at 38-31-3 both teams have had 11 game win streaks 1973-1983 for Pitt and 1991-2001 for us.
 

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