Are we going to dismiss the fact that a game deciding call went against us again? | Syracusefan.com

Are we going to dismiss the fact that a game deciding call went against us again?

Cuse_NYC

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Watched it back… clear block or a flop. Other ACC teams probably not only get a no charge, but a flop… this unfair cr@p against us in big spots needs to stop. Jim would have been better off blowing up about the officials in the post game. Nothing else is working. These are two MASSIVE wins that could have gone our way with a whistle. Not to mention that fouled JE out… leading to a dagger bucket over Hima. Pathetic, again.
 
So when you rewatch it you can see the defender move and begin to fall. With that said, Jesse lowered his shoulder into the falling defender as well. Jesse should have passed or went straight up with a fake. It sucked but it was a fair call on re watching.
 
I'm way more troubled by that one play where the 70s adult film star-looking UVA player went out of bounds and was the first to touch it after he came back in and promptly scored. I don't understand how that was missed.
 
I'm way more troubled by that one play where the 70s adult film star-looking UVA player went out of bounds and was the first to touch it after he came back in and promptly scored. I don't understand how that was missed.
Looked to me like he established his two feet back in bounds before he touched it although it was very close
 
Two things are true. It was a flop and that’s going to be called a charge more often than not.

Jesse was baited into it.

That said, I don’t think the defender was set in ‘legal guarding position.’ I think Jesse had a half step on him and the defender was late to the spot. Butttt, by virtue of dipping his shoulder, the ref is going to see that as leading with his shoulder and running through the defender.

Jesse weighs 123 pounds. He hasn’t run anything over in his life.
 
I'm way more troubled by that one play where the 70s adult film star-looking UVA player went out of bounds and was the first to touch it after he came back in and promptly scored. I don't understand how that was missed.
yeah - In the NFL you can't be the first to touch, In college hoops - as long as he has established being in bounds, he can touch it.
 
Two things are true. It was a flop and that’s going to be called a charge more often than not.

Jesse was baited into it.

That said, I don’t think the defender was set in ‘legal guarding position.’ I think Jesse had a half step on him and the defender was late to the spot. Butttt, by virtue of dipping his shoulder, the ref is going to see that as leading with his shoulder and running through the defender.

Jesse weighs 123 pounds. He hasn’t run anything over in his life.
How was he not in legal guarding position? Do I have to post the rules every time?
 
I'm way more troubled by that one play where the 70s adult film star-looking UVA player went out of bounds and was the first to touch it after he came back in and promptly scored. I don't understand how that was missed.

I asked about that in another thread. The resident UVA fan said ESPN showed a slo-mo of him getting his feet back inbounds.
 
Watched it back… clear block or a flop. Other ACC teams probably not only get a no charge, but a flop… this unfair cr@p against us in big spots needs to stop. Jim would have been better off blowing up about the officials in the post game. Nothing else is working. These are two MASSIVE wins that could have gone our way with a whistle. Not to mention that fouled JE out… leading to a dagger bucket over Hima. Pathetic, again.

Jesse lowered his shoulder. It's a charge.

It was also a horrific play, in general, to have him starting a drive that far out or even having Jesse drive at all.
 
Watched it back… clear block or a flop. Other ACC teams probably not only get a no charge, but a flop… this unfair cr@p against us in big spots needs to stop. Jim would have been better off blowing up about the officials in the post game. Nothing else is working. These are two MASSIVE wins that could have gone our way with a whistle. Not to mention that fouled JE out… leading to a dagger bucket over Hima. Pathetic, again.
could someone post the vid of the play, at the game I thought it was a block, others texting me watching on Tv said he lowered his shoulder for a legit charge. Regardless it wasn't quite as egregious as the calls in the UNC game.

Such a grey area issue, but here's the bottom line......forever and a millennium in my time as a fan and refing back in the day the call blocking was made anytime a guy thrust himself in front of an offensive player and wasn't "set" or what looks like set. A close reading of the rules (as I did when CuseinVt supplied them here), suggests that is not the rule or case and virtually all "close" calls like this and from the UNC game are charging if the guy gets in front creating a "legal guarding position" if even only for only a millisecond (moving backward full speed or not as long as the toes of the feet are down for that millisecond). Especially so with a lowered lead first shoulder.

The ONLY time its a block from an explicit reading of the rules are if a defender thrusts himself in front of already airborn player, the defender is in the circle below the basket, or if a defender has himself "set" but then goes forward into that offensive player. That's it. Everything else is a charge is how the rules work.

That's not how its been called the past forever years though, that's for sure. And the confusion of it all is how these refs and the league (IMHO) act to continue to screw over these northern teams in our league or how a biased ref (consciously or not) continue to have an unfair negative effect on the games and game in general elsewhere. I just can't wait for the first time since all this for us to get screwed on a call where in a similar circumstance and using the appropriate rules and criteria, but where instead they'll call a block on us when it should be a charge, I figure that'll happen in the Duke game where they'll be citing "interpretation of the rules" or some similar BS.
 
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How was he not in legal guarding position? Do I have to post the rules every time?

I don’t care that much about it. I think Jesse beat him to the spot and the defender was sliding over.
 
could someone post the vid of the play, at the game I thought it was a block, others texting me watching on Tv said he lowered his shoulder for the charge. Regardless it wasn't quite as egregious as the calls in the UNC game.

Such a grey area issue, but here's the bottom line...forever and a millennium in my time as a fan and refing back in the day the call blocking was made anytime a guy thrust himself in front of an offensive player and wasn't "set" or what looks like set. A close reading of the rules (as I did when CuseinVt supplied them here), suggests that is not the rule or case and virtually all "close" calls like this are charging if the guy gets in front if even only for only a millisecond (full speed or not, moving in space or not as long as the toes of the feet are down for that millisecond).

The ONLY time its a block from an explicit reading of the rules are if a defender thrusts himself in front of already airborn player, the defender is in the circle below the basket, or if a defender has himself "set" but then goes forward into that offensive player. That's it. Everything else is a charge is how the rules work.

That's not how its been called the past forever years though, that's for sure. And the confusion of it all is how these refs and the league (IMHO) act to continue to screw over these northern teams in our league or how a biased ref (uconsciously or not) continue to have an unfair negative effect on the games and game in general elsewhere.
Most important part is that the primary defender has to establish legal guarding position. Once he does that, he’s free to move as long as he stays mostly in front of the guy he’s defending. He can’t just turn and run into the side of the offensive player if that player is going around the defender.
 
Most important part is that the primary defender has to establish legal guarding position. Once he does that, he’s free to move as long as he stays mostly in front of the guy he’s defending. He can’t just turn and run into the side of the offensive player if that player is going around the defender.

Yep. Which renders him falling early meaningless unless he falls too early but Jesse also lowered his shoulder and once he does that he is toast.
 
Most important part is that the primary defender has to establish legal guarding position. Once he does that, he’s free to move as long as he stays mostly in front of the guy he’s defending. He can’t just turn and run into the side of the offensive player if that player is going around the defender.
yep was mostly what I got from reading it all. That said he CAN (the defender) turn his body diagonally to protect his body some to avoid the direct hit is what I read, but as you point out can't just turn and run forward into the O player. But as long as that primary defender establishes that legal guarding position, if even only for a millisecond with the feet down as occured twice in the UNC game, yep it's friggin a charge.

Hate that its this, but it is this. Defenders should do it literally on every single drive play to the hoop.
 
I'm way more troubled by that one play where the 70s adult film star-looking UVA player went out of bounds and was the first to touch it after he came back in and promptly scored. I don't understand how that was missed.
It was perfectly fine, according to the rules. See "b" below.

Section 3. Player Out of Bounds Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under the player's own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.
a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after returning to the playing court.
b. A player whose momentum causes that player to go out of bounds may be the first to touch the ball inbounds if that player reestablishes one foot inbounds prior to touching the ball.
 
I'm way more troubled by that one play where the 70s adult film star-looking UVA player went out of bounds and was the first to touch it after he came back in and promptly scored. I don't understand how that was missed.
I couldn't unsee Garndner Minshew all game.
 
yeah - In the NFL you can't be the first to touch, In college hoops - as long as he has established being in bounds, he can touch it.
not really true.. if the play takes you out of bounds its one thing.. if you take yourself out of bounds its another. you have to rule did have to go OB after his shot first
 

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