Babers is exactly average according to SRS

[Millhouse]

He said not competing in the Big East with regards to resources (staff budget, facilities, etc.). He was pointing out how hamstrung our staffs were compared to our competitors, which at the time were not close to the level of the resources our current competition has.

No, he said we weren't *even* competing in the big east

He wanted to make a point about how bad our facilities were but accidentally pointed out that the competition was bad

 

[SmilinBob]

I just don't see many schools being successful without passing qbs

I agree. It just seems to me Babers fell into the Baylor system without really knowing how to make it really work in how he recruited or taught.

 

[MikeSU02]

Can I just not think Marrone, Shafer or Babers are good enough for who I want at Syracuse?

 

[Millhouse]

I don't know where this fits into the analysis, but 2012 and 2018 were probably the healthiest seasons I can remember. 2012 Pugh was hurt early, but came back after a couple games. Seemed like no one was hurt at the end. Same with 2018.

Maybe we're just a program who can be pretty decent when everyone is available, and just sharts the bed once certain players of prominence get hurt. Happened to Marrone in 2011, happened to Shafer, happens to Dino every year.

That said, I wouldn't pay a coach $4-$5 million for it and be trapped because of a stupid buyout.

Shafer was a goof but that poor guy had a ridiculous stretch of qb injuries too - maybe that explains the difference between him and marrone and babers

pasqualoni ended up as just a guy, we hired someone terrible, then followed up with three more just-a-guys

 

[OrangeDW]

Marrone got hired away to be an NFL head coach.

GRob became a coordinator/position coach in college.

Shafer became a coordinator in college.

Important to note how football people regarded these guys at the ends of their SU tenures, IMO.

 

[Millhouse]

Shafer was -1.18
Tim Lester was -1.64
Bill Cubit who got talked about here for some reason -4.36

 

[Millhouse]

Marrone got hired away to be an NFL head coach.

GRob became a coordinator/position coach in college.

Shafer became a coordinator in college.

Important to note how football people regarded these guys at the ends of their SU tenures, IMO.

Maloney became a ticket taker and he might have been better than all of them

 

[upperdeck]

Does SRS account for not being able to manage a clock, making in game decisions that even the announcers heckle and having teams that could put on a masterclass in how to commit penalties? Not everything that matters shows up in analytics. He’s beyond below average in areas that do matter.

You could have an employee that is extremely succesful at sales that is sexually harassing every woman they come into contact with and it would never show up in their sales performance metrics. For example.

Does it also account for that many of the complaints here about clock management are not correct in the scope of what most coaches would do? Almost everyone here would do the same thing as a coach or worse. clock management probably hasnt cost us more than a game or 2 in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Millhouse]

Does it also account for that many of the complaints here about clock management are not correct in the scope of what most coaches would do? Almost everyone here would do the same thing as a coach or worse. clock management probably hasnt cost us more than a game or 2 in the grand scheme of things.

if clock management has cost us points, then yes it would account for it.

similar to clock management, babers went for it on 4th down 38 times in 2017 3rd nationally

Last year, he went for it 11 times. 127th nationally

He's broken

 

[SU91]

So everyone thinks that Clawson is much better than Babers, right? Me too

His schedule adjust per game scoring margin at Wake is 2.61

Less than a fg better per game. That's better but less than I would've thought. A big difference is the weird 2020 year

He's been to a lot more bowls because he's a hair better and his schedule has been easier

People like bowls, you get bowls by making the schedule as easy as possible.

Yeah, like beating the heck out of Dino Babers and Syracuse as part of that easy schedule. No, he’s a better coach than Dino.

 

[upperdeck]

if clock management has cost us points, then yes it would account for it.

similar to clock management, babers went for it on 4th down 38 times in 2017 3rd nationally

Last year, he went for it 11 times. 127th nationally

He's broken

you dont go for it on 4th down if you dont think you can make.. you need to trust the oline or the qb and do you honestly trust either at this point? look at our 3rd down conversion stats..

You listen to the coaches they go for it alot and they all say the same thing.. They do it because they think they will make it enough to make it work.

 

[upperdeck]

Yeah, like beating the heck out of Dino Babers and Syracuse as part of that easy schedule. No, he’s a better coach than Dino.

What someone has to explain is how most teams struggle to not take penalties with an oline the longer a play runs yet Clemson for years is able to maintain running blocks for 1-2 beats more than anyone else.

 

[kcsu]

if marrone is very good, then how is shrader horrible just a couple years later?

we played one ranked team in 2010 and they were 20th

people just want to extrapolate out from a good couple months in 2012

if babers had left after 2018, i'd probably be sitting here saying the same thing

Babers is a saint. Doug is a Dick. Doug can coach circles around Babers. If Doug had the resources that Babers has had I'm pretty sure he would have more than two winning seasons out of eight. Regardless it is time for a change unfortunately it probably will take SU missing out on a bowl game to get there.

 

[Millhouse]

you dont go for it on 4th down if you dont think you can make.. you need to trust the oline or the qb and do you honestly trust either at this point? look at our 3rd down conversion stats..

You listen to the coaches they go for it alot and they all say the same thing.. They do it because they think they will make it enough to make it work.

teams that go for it a lot on 4th down probably aren't great at converting third downs otherwise they wouldn't be in 4th down

i think teams who are really bad on first down should punt it away. can't risk failing.

 

[Millhouse]

Babers is a saint. Doug is a Dick. Doug can coach circles around Babers. If Doug had the resources that Babers has had I'm pretty sure he would have more than two winning seasons out of eight. Regardless it is time for a change unfortunately it probably will take SU missing out on a bowl game to get there.

38-60 in the nfl. -2.74 average SRS if i punched it in right (for some reason NFL reference doesn't give career srs for coaches)

 

[SmilinBob]

teams that go for it a lot on 4th down probably aren't great at converting third downs otherwise they wouldn't be in 4th down

i think teams who are really bad on first down should punt it away. can't risk failing.

It may just be me but it seems SU has the ball inside the 50 and it's 3rd and 6-8 and then they lose yards thus forcing the punt instead of getting getting 2 to 4 yards on 3rd down and making it more reasonable.

 

[upperdeck]

It may just be me but it seems SU has the ball inside the 50 and it's 3rd and 6-8 and then they lose yards thus forcing the punt instead of getting getting 2 to 4 yards on 3rd down and making it more reasonable.

a QB that cant get out of his own way too often lately.

 

[MSOrange]

He said not competing in the Big East with regards to resources (staff budget, facilities, etc.). He was pointing out how hamstrung our staffs were compared to our competitors, which at the time were not close to the level of the resources our current competition has.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. But anything beyond numbers is too much critical thinking for Millhouse - just like my dad who was an accountant for 35 years.

 

[Millhouse]

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. But anything beyond numbers is too much critical thinking for Millhouse - just like my dad who was an accountant for 35 years.

Explain why shafer is so poorly thought of compared to marrone. It was so much easier for him?

 

[sufandu]

No, he said we weren't *even* competing in the big east

He wanted to make a point about how bad our facilities were but accidentally pointed out that the competition was bad

No. Read it again, the whole sentence. Here's the quote, "We weren't even competing in the Big East when it came to resources."

 

[Millhouse]

No. Read it again, the whole sentence. Here's the quote, "We weren't even competing in the Big East when it came to resources."

Yeah, I know. Already covered that. (We were clearly talking about resources and he inadvertently pointed out that peer big east programs didn't have great resources)

Syracuse fans feel better with more wins against bad competition

 

[sufandu]

Yeah, I know. Already covered that. We were clearly talking about resources

Ignored is probably a better description than covered, but that's cool.

 

[Millhouse]

Ignored is probably a better description than covered, but that's cool.

Why is shafer considered so much worse? The resources were easy better for him and should have made a difference that quickly?

 

[sufandu]

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. But anything beyond numbers is too much critical thinking for Millhouse - just like my dad who was an accountant for 35 years.

Numbers are one great tool to tell the what. They often don't do a good job telling the why. That's why I like reading what the people on here with playing and coaching backgrounds have to say. We can say a QB has horrible numbers or an offense has horrible numbers, but I want to know the why. Why does a guy that had good numbers suddenly start having bad numbers. Did he change? Is the oline worse? Are they worse because of bad technique? Are they physically overwhelmed? Are receivers dropping passes? Are they running poor routes? Is the play design bad?

 

[sufandu]

Why is shafer considered so much worse? The resources were easy better for him and should have made a difference that quickly?

You tell me. I have my thoughts. Do your numbers tell you why anyone was better or worse?