Babers Vs Fleck on ESPN 2 right now

[Scooch]

Yes.

Yet another thing about football I don't understand. Why would you not want to create as large of a margin for error as possible and run as many plays as you can?

I know, but then the other team might score on your porous defense. Well, yeah. But the object of the game is to score more points than your opponent and win, not stay as close as you can by slowing the game down to a grind but still lose.

 

[upperdeck]

so we should run up tempo because the QB cant get the plays in that fast and the players dont do the assignments correctly but thats ok because its faster it will just work? 3 and out is 3 and out.

 

[RF2044]

Yet another thing about football I don't understand. Why would you not want to create as large of a margin for error as possible and run as many plays as you can?

I know, but then the other team might score on your porous defense. Well, yeah. But the object of the game is to score more points than your opponent and win, not stay as close as you can by slowing the game down to a grind but still lose.

That's the approach advocated by teams playing not to lose and trying to keep the score close. Lots of teams do that to us in basketball to try to minimize the talent differential.

Sadly, that's what we often resort to, due to the talent differential between the vast majority of teams we play and our roster. : (

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yet another thing about football I don't understand. Why would you not want to create as large of a margin for error as possible and run as many plays as you can?

I know, but then the other team might score on your porous defense. Well, yeah. But the object of the game is to score more points than your opponent and win, not stay as close as you can by slowing the game down to a grind but still lose.

Honestly, I'm pretty close to giving up. The way people think on this board is lunacy.

 

[upperdeck]

Yet another thing about football I don't understand. Why would you not want to create as large of a margin for error as possible and run as many plays as you can?

I know, but then the other team might score on your porous defense. Well, yeah. But the object of the game is to score more points than your opponent and win, not stay as close as you can by slowing the game down to a grind but still lose.

you can point to hundreds of examples of teams slowing it down and beating better teams without playing a perfect game. can you point to any examples of teams going faster and making mistakes and beating better teams? and in saying that i agree up temp is a better way to do things.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That's the approach advocated by teams playing not to lose and trying to keep the score close. Lots of teams do that to us in basketball to try to minimize the talent differential.

Sadly, that's what we often resort to, due to the talent differential between the vast majority of teams we play and our roster. : (

It can work in hoops because of the three pointer. Does not work in football.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

so we should run up tempo because the QB cant get the plays in that fast and the players dont do the assignments correctly but thats ok because its faster it will just work? 3 and out is 3 and out.

As opposed to now, where we take so long the defense figures out what we're going to so well before the snap, and our express backs take insane routes behind the line to get the handoff?

YES. Give me something else. PLEASE. It's not even hard. This has been figured out.

 

[Scooch]

so we should run up tempo because the QB cant get the plays in that fast and the players dont do the assignments correctly but thats ok because its faster it will just work? 3 and out is 3 and out.

If the QB can't get the plays in that fast and the players don't know their assignments that's on the coaches. I know, I know, but youth!

And yes, you are exactly right, 3 and out is 3 and out. So if we're going to have 3 and outs anyway wouldn't it make sense to try to generate as many series as possible to, you know, hopefully have a few that lead to scores?

White knuckle for life!

 

[Millhouse]

Yet another thing about football I don't understand. Why would you not want to create as large of a margin for error as possible and run as many plays as you can?

I know, but then the other team might score on your porous defense. Well, yeah. But the object of the game is to score more points than your opponent and win, not stay as close as you can by slowing the game down to a grind but still lose.

if the other team is better, running more plays amplifies their advantage. playing slow is trying to avoid the law of large numbers. we see crappy basketball teams do it all the time.

if you don't rip off the band aid and try to be good, you're never going to be good. just like in basketball, the crappy slow teams stay crappy and slow. you gotta decide who you want to be in the long run and do that

 

[IthacaBarrel]

so we should run up tempo because the QB cant get the plays in that fast and the players dont do the assignments correctly but thats ok because its faster it will just work? 3 and out is 3 and out.

It comes down to knowing how to coach it correctly and making sure the kids understand it. It's tough to teach if you don't know what you are doing or if you try to pick it up in 8 hours from another coach. Master skills and push it down. OWN IT, How does anyone learn anything? You honestly don't believe with the right coaching staff on offense we couldn't be running tempo next year? Please.

Sure it make a year or two to get everything up to speed and fine tuned but I don't think its as difficult as you make it

 

[upperdeck]

the faster you go 3 and out the faster our D comes on the field and the easier the other team scores too.. this isnt bball where can control pace of play on both ends of the court.. when our offense is working we run it faster. and i would run it faster too i just dont think running a crazy fast pace buys us anything will all the issues we need to fix.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

if the other team is better, running more plays amplifies their advantage. playing slow is trying to avoid the law of large numbers. we see crappy basketball teams do it all the time.

if you don't rip off the band aid and try to be good, you're never going to be good. just like in basketball, the crappy slow teams stay crappy and slow. you gotta decide who you want to be in the long run and do that

I don't think the basketball vs football strategy works. In hoops you have the three pointer. In football we don't have the 10 point TD. I think the difference in potential scoring per possession matters.

 

[Millhouse]

It comes down to knowing how to coach it correctly and making sure the kids understand it. It's tough to teach if you don't know what you are doing or if you try to pick it up in 8 hours from another coach. Master skills and push it down. OWN IT, How does anyone learn anything? You honestly don't believe with the right coaching staff on offense we couldn't be running tempo next year? Please.

Sure it make a year or two to get everything up to speed and fine tuned but I don't think its as difficult as you make it

do i need to post another picture of seth rogan's bald brother? that guy can go fast. dungey, nahhh

 

[Millhouse]

I don't think the basketball vs football strategy works. In hoops you have the three pointer. In football we don't have the 10 point TD. I think the difference in potential scoring per possession matters.

forget the three pointer.

you vs lebron one on one. do you have a better chance of winning if it's the first to one basket or the first to 10?

crappy teams want a small sample (fewer plays)

 

[Scooch]

do i need to post another picture of seth rogan's bald brother? that guy can go fast. dungey, nahhh

Do we use those funny signs to call in plays for the hurry up that everyone else in college football does? That'd be cool.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

the faster you go 3 and out the faster our D comes on the field and the easier the other team scores too.. this isnt bball where can control pace of play on both ends of the court.. when our offense is working we run it faster. and i would run it faster too i just dont think running a crazy fast pace buys us anything will all the issues we need to fix.

I view it as the complete opposite. Slow works in hoops. Fast works in football.

I mean sweet Jeebus, what's the trend in college hoops - lower scores, right? What's the trend in college football - more scoring, right?

Why might that be?

 

[RF2044]

It can work in hoops because of the three pointer. Does not work in football.

Sure it does--both ways. If I'm good, i want to run as many plays as I can to exploit advantages I have and score as many points as posible.

If I'm not as good, i want to slow it down to keep the ball out of the opposition's hands, preventing them from having lots of opportunities to score as many points as possible.

 

[upperdeck]

It comes down to knowing how to coach it correctly and making sure the kids understand it. It's tough to teach if you don't know what you are doing or if you try to pick it up in 8 hours from another coach. Master skills and push it down. OWN IT, How does anyone learn anything? You honestly don't believe with the right coaching staff on offense we couldn't be running tempo next year? Please.

Sure it make a year or two to get everything up to speed and fine tuned but I don't think its as difficult as you make it

i think if you change the staff and go with an offensive guy yes we go more up tempo. i am not convinced the issue isnt bigger than play calling and tempo which is what everyone here says is the issue. i think its a talent issue and if a new coach can fix that great. the long term answer is to win and up tempo is what kids want, more plays more scoring, but you can still suck doing that

 

[Crusty]

For an offense that is supposed to be easy to learn we seem to have a lot of problems with our smartest players. Can't play fast if you don't practice fast and you can't practice fast if the players don't understand.

 

[RF2044]

i think if you change the staff and go with an offensive guy yes we go more up tempo. i am not convinced the issue isnt bigger than play calling and tempo which is what everyone here says is the issue. i think its a talent issue and if a new coach can fix that great. the long term answer is to win and up tempo is what kids want, more plays more scoring, but you can still suck doing that

There isn't always a "magic bullet" / one explanation answer that is the root cause explanation for everything that's gone wrong. Talent is surely a factor, but other variables are impactful, too. This year, we've got better offensive talent that we've had in several seasons--certainly more than being a 3-win team, so coaching is another factor.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

forget the three pointer.

you vs lebron one on one. do you have a better chance of winning if it's the first to one basket or the first to 10?

You're talking about different things. You're making the argument for why the NCAA tourney is fun and why the NBA playoffs are fun but fairly predictable. You're talking about a final outcome. I'm talking about the probabilities of outcomes stacking, and the relative scoring between them. On a possession in football you're either going to score 0, 3, 6, 7 or 8 points. On a possession in basketball you're either going to score 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 points. How common those outcomes are matters, and so does the range from the most common outcome to the best. It's more favorable in hoops. That's just how it's scored.

Look at the trends in college hoops vs college football.

 

[upperdeck]

bowling green ran 82 plays. we ran 73 last week, both teams ran around 40 times. they ran for twice as many per carry. show me where pace of play was any different, we ran more plays than UL. if you throw a few more times you get a few more plays in with the clocking stopping a bit more.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Sure it does--both ways. If I'm good, i want to run as many plays as I can to exploit advantages I have and score as many points as posible.

If I'm not as good, i want to slow it down to keep the ball out of the opposition's hands, preventing them from having lots of opportunities to score as many points as possible.

Low and close works better in basketball because it's easier to score and the three pointer is so valuable. It isn't nearly as effective in football because it's much harder to score and you can't score in as volatile chunks.

 

[Millhouse]

You're talking about different things. You're making the argument for why the NCAA tourney is fun and why the NBA playoffs are fun but fairly predictable. You're talking about a final outcome. I'm talking about the probabilities of outcomes stacking, and the relative scoring between them. On a possession in football you're either going to score 0, 3, 6, 7 or 8 points. On a possession in basketball you're either going to score 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 points. How common those outcomes are matters, and so does the range from the most common outcome to the best. It's more favorable in hoops. That's just how it's scored.

Look at the trends in college hoops vs college football.

i don't know what you're talking about. nor do i care to know

 

[upperdeck]

You're talking about different things. You're making the argument for why the NCAA tourney is fun and why the NBA playoffs are fun but fairly predictable. You're talking about a final outcome. I'm talking about the probabilities of outcomes stacking, and the relative scoring between them. On a possession in football you're either going to score 0, 3, 6, 7 or 8 points. On a possession in basketball you're either going to score 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 points. How common those outcomes are matters, and so does the range from the most common outcome to the best. It's more favorable in hoops. That's just how it's scored.

Look at the trends in college hoops vs college football.

in 83 neb scored 50 pts a game and ran less than 60 plays a game most of them runs. how is that possible if pace of play is the only way to score more points? you still need to run plays that work