Babers Vs Fleck on ESPN 2 right now

[Scooch]

We made our most recent bowl games because of good defense. Ohio St won the title on defense. Alabama beat LSU on defense. Seattle destroyed Denver a couple years ago in the Super Bowl. Denver had the most prolific offense in NFL history that year. And it was enough that Elway let offensive weapons go in order to bolster the defense. Yes, defense rules, whether it's NFL or college.

We certainly made our 2012 bowl because of O. That team was 2-4 before we figured out how to score.

The examples you gave are both irrelevant (NFL?!) and make no sense. As I always argue, having a great O does not preclude a program from being at least competent on D.

 

[Crusty]

in what way? just because it worked doesnt mean it was super complex.
they mostly run 2x2 or 3x1, the QB for the most part had 4-5 secs to throw which gives the WR tons of time to rework the routes.

the 27 td run, 2x2 wide the MLB who has one thing to do runs outside and simple handoff up the middle.
the 24 td run, 3x1 wide the MLB who has one thing to do runs outside and simple handoff up the middle and the RB make the safety miss

the long td pass 3x1. the 1 WR beats the DB and just runs straight down the field.
the 2nd long td pass 3x1. the outside guy beats the db off the line and runs straight down the field.
the 3rd long td pass, the most complex of all. 3x2 inside slot runs by the db and scores.

if you want to say the 4wr-5wr set stresses the D and left them in single high, then yes, but the routes were not complex in the least, all the scores came on straight streak passes. the underneath guys often dont even run a route. they dont even bother with play action much of the time.

we have run this same route with Estime 7-8 times the last 3 weeks, he has gotten more PI calls than catches, he cant get by the DB and create and room for throws and he has more drops than catches. its the same pass we are throwing its just doesnt work for us. the throws are not that bad but there is little room for error.

we have 2 WR, lewis everyone complains is too slow and we dont even have a 4th-5th we want to put on the field most of the time. phillips has been put in these spots and drops the ball half the time our bounces it off his head.

if we had a clear #1 wr with deep play ability then move Ish and Estime down to the 2-3 WR and had phillips as the 4th i think you could run these sets thats makes lewis the under 5th guy. right now he is the running as the 3.

do we have a WR coming in next year better than lewis , cause thats what we need.

The WR set up at the very outside of the field. Don't know of too many that do that. Obviously, that stretches the defense and makes back 7 run farther and more often. Together with their up tempo they are hard to keep up with.

The QB is reading that MLB is he not?

 

[Full_Rebar]

Noticing that the RB only had to make 1 guy miss to get huge yardage is important. If you look at Fredericks' big runs, that's usually the same formula, but then we decide to play a TE and motion a WR into the H-Back position to bring defenders into the box.

Spreading 2 WR's at the boundary and the other 2 at the hash forces the defense to pick between guarding against the pass, or committing the safeties to the run.

 

[texascpa]

We certainly made our 2012 bowl because of O. That team was 2-4 before we figured out how to score.

The examples you gave are both irrelevant (NFL?!) and make no sense. As I always argue, having a great O does not preclude a program from being at least competent on D.

Okay, I'm just an idiot.

 

[Crusty]

Look, I'm not taking delight in anything, I'm just pointing out how quickly some of us forget. Personally, I have never put restrictions or qualifiers on the type of coach SU should hire. I'm a fan of several different offenses and don't necessarily think one is better than another, if coached properly. We see success with the no-huddle spread (Baylor), the option (Navy) and psuedo-West Coast run oriented (Alabama). It comes down to coaching and players that fit the system. I love our QB and think he can be successful in Babers type of offense, but I do not believe we have the type of wide receivers to make it work. It will take more than one year to fix that, and are we willing to give him the 2-3 years to do.

But, more importantly, defense, as has always, rules the day in football. And we can all agree that our defense stinks this year. We've seen what good defenses can, but not always do, even when we've had poor offenses. I'm not advocating hiring another defensive minded coach, but I don't want defense becoming an after-thought.

IF you think defense rules the day take a look at Boston College.

If you hope to make it to the top 25, you need to score 30-35+ per game. If you can hold opponents to under 25 you are golden. (Even Alabama scores 33 per game.)

We don't play in the SEC or the NFL. Less than 30 ppg puts us in the bottom half forever.

As for Babers, if he says one year I believe him. What could any of us know about his system that he doesn't?

Your debits don't equal your credits!

 

[cuseguy]

IF you think defense rules the day take a look at Boston College. If you hope to make it to the top 25, you need to score 30-35+ per game. If you can hold opponents to under 25 you are golden. (Even Alabama scores 33 per game.) We don't play in the SEC or the NFL. Less than 30 ppg puts us in the bottom half forever. As for Babers, if he says one year I believe him. What could any of us know about his system that he doesn't? Your debits don't equal your credits!

Thing is BC has an awful offense this year. But I agree: you need offense nowadays.

 

[Scooch]

Okay, I'm just an idiot.

Come on. Just making the point that it's not like we're being forced to make a choice between offense and defense.

And IMHO, at this point I think our fanbase would prefer a team that's great on O and middling on D. Honestly, I find following teams like that to be more fun because when you're great on O you always have hope for a comeback.

 

[Crusty]

Come on. Just making the point that it's not like we're being forced to make a choice between offense and defense.

And IMHO, at this point I think our fanbase would prefer a team that's great on O and middling on D. Honestly, I find following teams like that to be more fun because when you're great on O you always have hope for a comeback.

And we play in as dome - advantage offense!

 

[Crusty]

Thing is BC has an awful offense this year. But I agree: you need offense nowadays.

Sureand first in the nation in defense - first!

 

[texascpa]

Come on. Just making the point that it's not like we're being forced to make a choice between offense and defense.

And IMHO, at this point I think our fanbase would prefer a team that's great on O and middling on D. Honestly, I find following teams like that to be more fun because when you're great on O you always have hope for a comeback.

Personally, I like a strong defense. TCU's offense is fun to watch, but their defense has been horrid, lately.

 

[Millhouse]

Personally, I like a strong defense. TCU's offense is fun to watch, but their defense has been horrid, lately.

TCU is clearly better overall since they went with the air raid and took the hit on defense

 

[JrodCuse]

What I want to know is, why do you have to take a big hit on D when you go air raid? Is it you only practice against this form of O? You only recruit high caliber players for O? Why can't you have an air raid O and a strong D? Why does it seem like its one or the other in college football. Does the air raid score so fast your own D gets gassed by having lower time of possession?

 

[OrangeFoo]

Personally, I like a strong defense. TCU's offense is fun to watch, but their defense has been horrid, lately.

TCU lost half their D to graduation last year and the other half due to suspensions and injuries this year. Patterson is a great D coach and I suspect this year was just a combination of factors.

 

[Millhouse]

What I want to know is, why do you have to take a big hit on D when you go air raid? Is it you only practice against this form of O? You only recruit high caliber players for O? Why can't you have an air raid O and a strong D? Why does it seem like its one or the other in college football. Does the air raid score so fast your own D gets gassed by having lower time of possession?

i think it's that air raid offenses are too good. defenses practice failure over and over. not a great answer, it's a mystery - whoever figures that out will win national championships

 

[TheCusian]

i think it's that air raid offenses are too good. defenses practice failure over and over. not a great answer, it's a mystery - whoever figures that out will win national championships

Agreed. Seems like the answer is in how you practice. Someone's going to have to get mad scientist on revamping the scout team or something.

 

[Crusty]

What I want to know is, why do you have to take a big hit on D when you go air raid? Is it you only practice against this form of O? You only recruit high caliber players for O? Why can't you have an air raid O and a strong D? Why does it seem like its one or the other in college football. Does the air raid score so fast your own D gets gassed by having lower time of possession?

Bear in mind if you play several high powered offenses you defense will look worse than it might actually be.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

in what way? just because it worked doesnt mean it was super complex.
they mostly run 2x2 or 3x1, the QB for the most part had 4-5 secs to throw which gives the WR tons of time to rework the routes.

the 27 td run, 2x2 wide the MLB who has one thing to do runs outside and simple handoff up the middle.
the 24 td run, 3x1 wide the MLB who has one thing to do runs outside and simple handoff up the middle and the RB make the safety miss

the long td pass 3x1. the 1 WR beats the DB and just runs straight down the field.
the 2nd long td pass 3x1. the outside guy beats the db off the line and runs straight down the field.
the 3rd long td pass, the most complex of all. 3x2 inside slot runs by the db and scores.

if you want to say the 4wr-5wr set stresses the D and left them in single high, then yes, but the routes were not complex in the least, all the scores came on straight streak passes. the underneath guys often dont even run a route. they dont even bother with play action much of the time.

we have run this same route with Estime 7-8 times the last 3 weeks, he has gotten more PI calls than catches, he cant get by the DB and create and room for throws and he has more drops than catches. its the same pass we are throwing its just doesnt work for us. the throws are not that bad but there is little room for error.

we have 2 WR, lewis everyone complains is too slow and we dont even have a 4th-5th we want to put on the field most of the time. phillips has been put in these spots and drops the ball half the time our bounces it off his head.

if we had a clear #1 wr with deep play ability then move Ish and Estime down to the 2-3 WR and had phillips as the 4th i think you could run these sets thats makes lewis the under 5th guy. right now he is the running as the 3.

do we have a WR coming in next year better than lewis , cause thats what we need.

The only difference is the plays you list above would take us 7 games to run, it took them 7 minutes. Your post is one of the better ones I have ever read on this forum. No difference between our offense and BG, priceless. No difference between my 87 Dodge Omi with no bumper that I drove in college versus a Corvette

 

[im4cuse]

Does BG have a board? If so, where do their fans think Babers is going? That might be interesting if we are even on anyone's radar. They have to realize he's gonna leave, right?

 

[Frozen]

Does BG have a board? If so, where do their fans think Babers is going? That might be interesting if we are even on anyone's radar. They have to realize he's gonna leave, right?

http://www.ay-ziggy-zoomba.com/phpBB3/

 

[orangeinohio]

http://www.ay-ziggy-zoomba.com/phpBB3/

Not much talk on this board about Babers possibly getting hired away at the end of the season. Kind of strange. Really successful coach, severely underpaid...you'd think the fanbase would be more worried about him getting hired away.

There's one thread about Babers getting a $7500 bonus for his 5th MAC win this year. In my life that's a lot of money but for a head coach?
He's probably going to quadruple his salary when he leaves BG.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Not much talk on this board about Babers possibly getting hired away at the end of the season. Kind of strange. Really successful coach, severely underpaid...you'd think the fanbase would be more worried about him getting hired away.

There's one thread about Babers getting a $7500 bonus for his 5th MAC win this year. In my life that's a lot of money but for a head coach?
He's probably going to quadruple his salary when he leaves BG.

I would start the negotiating at 2 million if I'm his agent.

 

[Crusty]

I would start the negotiating at 2 million if I'm his agent.

We need to pay market value rather than some vague concept of paying "based on experience. "
Market value is the only thing that matters - you would like to think the BOT is smart enough to figure that part out. I certainly hope so.

 

[dollarbill44]

Nothing you can do about that if that's the case. Who wouldn't want to live in Miami?

Me. If I wanted to live in Miami, that's where I'd be living.

Come on. Just making the point that it's not like we're being forced to make a choice between offense and defense.

And IMHO, at this point I think our fanbase would prefer a team that's great on O and middling on D. Honestly, I find following teams like that to be more fun because when you're great on O you always have hope for a comeback.

Watching BGSU is fun and I'm not even a fan of theirs. I became a fan of the Lions in the Wayne Fontes years. Growing up, playing pickup games, we would often pretend to be the Air Coryell Chargers. Wide open offenses are fun to the casual fans and grow the fanbase. A lot of people outside CNY became SU hoops fans in the 80s because we put up some huge offensive numbers with our high-flying offenses. You're not going to necessarily win NCs, but you're going to have a fun product to watch and you're most likely going to win a lot of games.

Offense sells.

 

[upperdeck]

The only difference is the plays you list above would take us 7 games to run, it took them 7 minutes. Your post is one of the better ones I have ever read on this forum. No difference between our offense and BG, priceless. No difference between my 87 Dodge Omi with no bumper that I drove in college versus a Corvette

far difference in tempo and offensive play design. if both teams run the same play and one works and one doesnt which is better? we have had several times this year where we went pretty fast and it didnt go well. should they just run the plays faster anyway?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

far difference in tempo and offensive play design. if both teams run the same play and one works and one doesnt which is better? we have had several times this year where we went pretty fast and it didnt go well. should they just run the plays faster anyway?

Yes.