Backup C

[dollarbill44]

Baye is playing like the guy at the playground when you're 1 player short and you just grab someone from the sideline. He looks clueless and as soon as he gets the ball he passes it as soon as possible even if it's to the other team cuz he has no idea what to do with it and panics.

I said this after the virginia game and it got deleted but he simply does not belong on the court.

You guys need to cut Baye some slack. If he wasn't a senior and if DC2 hadn't gone down, Baye would have been shut down for the season. He shouldn't be playing with that knee as he can't move well or jump.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Disagree. Baye has helped us immeasurably in games when Rak was out. On offense, I agree - he is a liability. But you won't find anyone with a bigger heart and desire to help the team. Did he have a bad game last night? Yes. CJ did too. It happens. But to say he doesn't belong on the court is just wrong.

No one doubts his heart. Baye is a great, great guy. I've met him before and he's one of my favorites. But heart and desire only do so much when you aren't even a threat to put a layup back up.

 

[orange79]

Because he is loyal and stubborn to a fault. He also threw him under the bus during the press conference. I personally think Buss and Roberson transfer if we lose this weekend and if Grant and Ennis come back.

Coaches are very greedy, and egotistical. They want to win. If you think JB is playing who he plays because of some reason other than he thinks they give him the best change to win, well, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Ghost]

What does the first blithering part of your post have to do with Roberson?

Roberson may be a stud, whatever that means in basketball terms. But a" stud" that isn't ready to play high level D-1 this year. Paul Harris was a stud. A fabulous physical specimen. Are you aware how well that translated to the college level? Yet he dominated everyone at the high school level.

Hmmm, poor Paul Harris. He put up numbers his Soph/Junior years that compare favorably to someone like CJ to be honest.

His Frosh year does too. He averaged more rebounds per game in about 500 less minutes played as a frosh (compared to CJ's senior year), and per 40 minutes he prolly had somewhat similar numbers as well. His outside shot is the one area he gets destroyed. But CJ isn't lighting it up from there anyway. I think it translated pretty well at a high D1 school. Not comparing the two as players, just saying his numbers were decent, he wasn't exactly overmatched at this level - frustrating as h*ll, but decent.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Because he is loyal and stubborn to a fault.

This, and because Baye gave us some good minutes last year in the tourneys. Baye seems like a great kid, but he gets pushed around on D and he gets in the way on offense. And his rebounding is terrible if there is anyone within 4 feet of him. He passes to start the other team's fast break, and he frequently loses the ball without even being challenged for it.

You guys need to cut Baye some slack. If he wasn't a senior and if DC2 hadn't gone down, Baye would have been shut down for the season. He shouldn't be playing with that knee as he can't move well or jump.

He wasn't exactly a high flyer before the knee injury either. There is no way that he shouldn't be able to rise up and flush dunk a few more offensive boards, but he just isn't a basketball player. I attribute this to not being raised playing the game. His timing is off, and he often gets into really bad position (directly under the bucket) when trying to go for offensive boards. I don't blame him for it, but he hurts the team much more often than he helps it.

 

[two3zone]

You guys need to cut Baye some slack. If he wasn't a senior and if DC2 hadn't gone down, Baye would have been shut down for the season. He shouldn't be playing with that knee as he can't move well or jump.

Shut down? He looks the same to me as he did before the injury.

And his knees have nothing to do with his hands.

 

[SmilinBob]

You guys need to cut Baye some slack. If he wasn't a senior and if DC2 hadn't gone down, Baye would have been shut down for the season. He shouldn't be playing with that knee as he can't move well or jump.

Shhhh...it's better to judge without any knowledge of what really is happening and better to assume.

Everybody on this team has to step up and play to their potential. Baye is a match up center and has been during his whole career. When SU needed a defensive leader he was there and continues to be so even though he is hurt. Are there times he makes it somewhat of a 4 on 5 offensively...yes. But, he does rebound offensively and is a good passer from the top of the key. His hands have been a problem along with strength and that ain't changing now. The knee injury has hurt him and the team and to be honest we wouldn't have noticed as much if the rest of team hadn't struggled so much.

As for Boeheim...he is what he is for better most of the time but for worse when it comes to playing some freshmen. Loyal and stubborn is what an earlier poster said and I agree.

 

[dollarbill44]

Shut down? He looks the same to me as he did before the injury.

Then you haven't been paying attention. He doesn't run the floor as well and he doesn't jump at all anymore. Baye used to be the first guy up the court.

And his knees have nothing to do with his hands.

This is true, but it does impact his ability to go right back up with an offensive rebound.

 

[Quazzum69]

The Roberson situation is very similar to the MCW freshman debacle.

Just like MCW, watch Roberson go from never playing his freshman year to first-round draft pick after his sophmore. Then watch all the Boeheim Fanboys say he wasn't ready this year and that the other players were the better option, doesn't know the defense, Boeheim has won a million games, blah blah blah.

No one improves that much in a year. And no one that good in high school is so bad as a freshman that they can't get on the floor, especially with the troubles our team has.

 

[RF2044]

The Roberson situation is very similar to the MCW freshman debacle.

Just like MCW, watch Roberson go from never playing his freshman year to first-round draft pick after his sophmore. Then watch all the Boeheim Fanboys say he wasn't ready this year and that the other players were the better option, doesn't know the defense, Boeheim has won a million games, blah blah blah.

No one improves that much in a year. And no one that good in high school is so bad as a freshman that they can't get on the floor, especially with the troubles our team has.

This is really getting to be too much.

Nobody is more excited about Roberson's potential than I am. If you don't believe me, go back and review the practice write up I did at the beginning of October. I'll wait.

But this kid got a chance to start against Georgia Tech, and failed to deliver. In fact, he laid an egg in all facets of the game, in a contest that we might have won if he'd produced something. Anything. I'm not trying to pin the loss on him, just pointing out why you'll forgive me for taking all of the claims about what a great rebounder he is, how he's been held back by Boeheim, how he's going to be a first round pick next year, etc. with a tremendous grain of salt. Again, I am a big fan of this kid and hope he is a great player for us. And I certainly believe that he might have been more ready to contribute had he garnered a little more PT throughout the course of the year.

But some of these accolades are completely over the top wishful thinking. Backup QB syndrome at its worst. When he got an opportunity to contribute during a time of team need, he didn't rise to the occasion. Hopefully next year he will.

 

[CorduroyG]

Roberson is a way better rebounder than CJ. Roberson should have been playing 10 minutes every game. JB puts Keita out there with no offensive value. Roberson at the 4 and Grant and/or Roc at the 5 improves our rotation dramatically because: Roberson makes his free throws Roberson rebounds very well. Roberson can triple threat, rip through, make a 15 footer and actually hold onto the ball. Keita on offense is offensive. This team cannot score the ball. Yeah, lets just keep running Keita out there...

Agree. Sorry but I'm just about done with keita, he's embarrassing himself out there.

 

[longislandcuse]

So all the people who think Keita should be given minutes, with him being injured and a liability even before the injury, do you really think he's a better option than going small with Roberson?

 

[pearl31]

Coaches are very greedy, and egotistical. They want to win. If you think JB is playing who he plays because of some reason other than he thinks they give him the best change to win, well, I don't know what to tell you.

Exactly, and JB is probably as egotistical in terms of winning above all else as any of them. And so then that would apparently mean that, despite his fierce desire to win at any cost, JB is purposely sabotaging his team in keeping Roberson on the bench.
People are implying flat out saying that JB knows Roberson gives the team a better chance to win but he's just not playing him.

 

[longislandcuse]

I agree in that you don't know what to tell me. Nor the coaches in the ACC nor the writers and coaches in the country. That pretty much sums it up for me.

So you think its optimal to run an offensively challenged team through a slender Small Forward who can only dribble drive left, can't shoot threes, doesnt create for others, struggles rebounding against bigger teams and takes a lot of shots?

 

[pearl31]

So all the people who think Keita should be given minutes, with him being injured and a liability even before the injury, do you really think he's a better option than going small with Roberson?

Did you watch the Duke and Maryland games after Baye's return from injury?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

So all the people who think Keita should be given minutes, with him being injured and a liability even before the injury, do you really think he's a better option than going small with Roberson?

While I'm one who is a noted Baye critic, I really think it all comes down to matchups. I think a smaller lineup with Roberson, CJ and Grant on the front line could work against a team like WMU with shorter forwards, I don't want to see us using that lineup against teams with 7 footers and big forwards.

What I really want is for Rak to get the majority of the minutes and for him to play smart like he did when Baye was hurt and he knew two things - he had to be out there, and he wasn't going to get the quick hook.

 

[longislandcuse]

Did you watch the Duke and Maryland games after Baye's return from injury?

If he's playing well than by all means play him, I thought he was huge in our run last year and hope he gets it together again this year but if he has another repeat performence of NC State, in a one and done scenario, we have to figure out something else.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Exactly, and JB is probably as egotistical in terms of winning above all else as any of them. And so then that would apparently mean that, despite his fierce desire to win at any cost, JB is purposely sabotaging his team in keeping Roberson on the bench.
People are implying flat out saying that JB knows Roberson gives the team a better chance to win but he's just not playing him.

I don't believe that's what I'm saying. And I also think at this late stage in the game, the Roberson ship has sailed for this season. I think JB tends to have a blind spot for certain players thanks to his loyalty; although I have seen JB light up Baye quite a bit lately (he's seeing the same things out of Baye that many here are).

 

[jr4750]

I don't believe that's what I'm saying. And I also think at this late stage in the game, the Roberson ship has sailed for this season. I think JB tends to have a blind spot for certain players thanks to his loyalty; although I have seen JB light up Baye quite a bit lately (he's seeing the same things out of Baye that many here are).

I'd be terrified if he wasn't. Baye is not playing well... Doesn't mean he's not a great kid. He's just not effective right now.

 

[Ghost]

This is really getting to be too much.

Nobody is more excited about Roberson's potential than I am. If you don't believe me, go back and review the practice write up I did at the beginning of October. I'll wait.

But this kid got a chance to start against Georgia Tech, and failed to deliver. In fact, he laid an egg in all facets of the game, in a contest that we might have won if he'd produced something. Anything. I'm not trying to pin the loss on him, just pointing out why you'll forgive me for taking all of the claims about what a great rebounder he is, how he's been held back by Boeheim, how he's going to be a first round pick next year, etc. with a tremendous grain of salt. Again, I am a big fan of this kid and hope he is a great player for us. And I certainly believe that he might have been more ready to contribute had he garnered a little more PT throughout the course of the year.

But some of these accolades are completely over the top wishful thinking. Backup QB syndrome at its worst. When he got an opportunity to contribute during a time of team need, he didn't rise to the occasion. Hopefully next year he will.

I think a lot of the Roberson chat has to be taken as a thought exercise. It has less to do with her performance against G-Tech, and more to do with how he was prepared for that role when given. And whether he should have been. Based on his play earlier in the year I think he could have been - JB playing in the first half against Duke shows he had some inclination that the kid could contribute. It's all hypothetical, mostly, at this point, but still interesting. Especially in light of how an injured Baye is performing, and how little we get from G when he went down low.

Personally, I would have kept giving him minuts after GT...too late now. I think most are sort of on the same page.....as you stated at the end of paragraph 3.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Roberson is a way better rebounder than CJ. Roberson should have been playing 10 minutes every game. JB puts Keita out there with no offensive value. Roberson at the 4 and Grant and/or Roc at the 5 improves our rotation dramatically because:

Roberson makes his free throws
Roberson rebounds very well.
Roberson can triple threat, rip through, make a 15 footer and actually hold onto the ball.

Keita on offense is offensive.

This team cannot score the ball. Yeah, lets just keep running Keita out there...

Perhaps you missed the part where we were 25-0 because, hang on now, we played great defense. Defense. It is really a part of the game. You should look it up sometime. See even when our offense sucked, guess what, the defense won the game for us. Defense always keeps yo in games because offense comes and goes. This is true at all levels, high school, college and pros. You might want to see what teams do that win championships. Thats riugth sorts foam, you guessed it, they play repeat after rme

So you think its optimal to run an offensively challenged team through a slender Small Forward who can only dribble drive left, can't shoot threes, doesnt create for others, struggles rebounding against bigger teams and takes a lot of shots?

No I don't. Thats why we run it through CJ Fair.

For the record to: This shows how accurate your picture is of CJ.

1) CJ is not slender - Who as a 3 is bigger and stronger than CJ?
2)He prefers left and most can't stop him anyway, but he does go right when he needs to and leads the team in scoring.
3)He has hit some very big threes - it is not his strong suit - that I will give you- but Roberson has missed every 3 he has taken
4)He is not a point guard. Most 3's are not facilitators, they are scorers. CJ scores - Oh yeah , he is tied for 2nd in assists on the team anyway
5) He rebounds better than most small forwards. CJ is second on the team in rebounds, 8 behind our power forward Jerami.
6) He is supposed to take a lot of shots. He is making 43% of his shots - your savior Roberson is making 29%

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Perhaps you missed the part where we were 25-0 because, hang on now, we played great defense. Defense. It is really a part of the game. You should look it up sometime. See even when our offense sucked, guess what, the defense won the game for us. Defense always keeps yo in games because offense comes and goes. This is true at all levels, high school, college and pros. You might want to see what teams do that win championships. Thats riugth sorts foam, you guessed it, they play repeat after rme

No I don't. Thats why we run it through CJ Fair.

For the record to: This shows how accurate your picture is of CJ.

1) CJ is not slender - Who as a 3 is bigger and stronger than CJ?
2)He prefers left and most can't stop him anyway, but he does go right when he needs to and leads the team in scoring.
3)He has hit some very big threes - it is not his strong suit - that I will give you- but Roberson has missed every 3 he has taken
4)He is not a point guard. Most 3's are not facilitators, they are scorers. CJ scores - Oh yeah , he is tied for 2nd in assists on the team anyway
5) He rebounds better than most small forwards. CJ is second on the team in rebounds, 8 behind our power forward Jerami.
6) He is supposed to take a lot of shots. He is making 43% of his shots - your savior Roberson is making 29%

They really should change your name to grumpypaul. You missed most of the points of this thread so further response is probably useless. But I'll try anyway.

Defense against the weaker teams usually does win games. Every talking head out there talked about the fact that our schedule was backloaded so all the truly tough (read road) games were in the latter half of the year. When we had a bunch of losses. Our defense was still good then, but our shooters stopped making shots (read CJ and especially Trevor).

CJ could be so much more effective out there if he really could go right effectively. He goes that way on occasion, but don't ever compare him to a guy like Devo who seemed to like going to his off hand even more than his right.

He also could be much more effective if teams thought for a second he might actually pass with regularity. He gets doubled teamed frequently leaving someone else open but he has a pitiful number of assists this year. The ones he has had (like the alley-oop to Rak) are so spectacular because very few of us expected them.

He could be so much more effective if he rebounded better. Yes, he has only 4 less boards in conference play than Grant, but he has played a total of 710 minutes in conference play while JG has only played 579.

But mostly many people feel that CJ could have been so much more effective if he wasn't tasked with trying to be the primary scorer, rebounder, and everything else while being forced to play nearly 40 minutes per game (39.4 minutes in conference play). That's why we thought seeing Roberson just a bit early on really would have helped during that brutal back end of the schedule.

I think CJ is a great player, and we will miss him next year for sure. But we can always hope for more, right?

 

[Trueblue25]

I've given up on the big man position


*Continues praying for Tyus Battle*

 

[SarasotaPaul]

They really should change your name to grumpypaul. You missed most of the points of this thread so further response is probably useless. But I'll try anyway.

Defense against the weaker teams usually does win games. Every talking head out there talked about the fact that our schedule was backloaded so all the truly tough (read road) games were in the latter half of the year. When we had a bunch of losses. Our defense was still good then, but our shooters stopped making shots (read CJ and especially Trevor).

CJ could be so much more effective out there if he really could go right effectively. He goes that way on occasion, but don't ever compare him to a guy like Devo who seemed to like going to his off hand even more than his right.

He also could be much more effective if teams thought for a second he might actually pass with regularity. He gets doubled teamed frequently leaving someone else open but he has a pitiful number of assists this year. The ones he has had (like the alley-oop to Rak) are so spectacular because very few of us expected them.

He could be so much more effective if he rebounded better. Yes, he has only 4 less boards in conference play than Grant, but he has played a total of 710 minutes in conference play while JG has only played 579.

But mostly many people feel that CJ could have been so much more effective if he wasn't tasked with trying to be the primary scorer, rebounder, and everything else while being forced to play nearly 40 minutes per game (39.4 minutes in conference play). That's why we thought seeing Roberson just a bit early on really would have helped during that brutal back end of the schedule.

I think CJ is a great player, and we will miss him next year for sure. But we can always hope for more, right?

Grumpy? Good point. As good as comparing a guard to a small forward. What does Devo have to do with any of this thread? You may be right then, I missed that part opt the thread. If only we had Devo instead of CJ. What a brilliant idea.

The rest of your points and those of "the2-3PWN" are still countered by my points 1-6. I understand people "think this or that". I would rather go with facts and not wishful thinking. And that is all it is ...wishful thinking...as the facts prove. I did not miss one single part of the thoughts on this thread.

CJ could be more effective. He only made All ACC and 2nd team All American. We expected so much more from him.

Did you happen to look at the comparison of CJ's stats to Roberson's? Once you do, tell me who should be on the floor. And this does not take into account being lost on defense most of the time.

During most of our losses Grant was missing in action from his back. That had more to do with it than anything else.

I'm not really grumpy, I just have a low tolerance for people giving opinions as if they were facts. Especially when the facts show how far off they are.

Lets kick some *ss starting Thursday!! I truly believe we will.

 

[The2-3PWN]

MEH you need a hooker from us 41 paul. go get you a street walker down there near all the cockroach motels.