Bad Season

[OrangePA]

From the first drive against Villanova, it just seemed that this was going to be a rough season.

There were moments early when I experienced feelings that I had not felt since the Robinson era.

Clearly the numerous injuries had a major impact on the season, but there were obvious problems even before that became an issue.

To be successful this program - by its nature, its history and its inherent limitations - must be disciplined, totally prepared and smart. We did not see enough of any of that this year.

If I am Shafer, I go back to what Marrone did when he arrived on the Hill - establish true accountability, a tough, no non-sense disciplinary regime.

I get rid of the beards, the hair, the gimmicky uniforms and the supposed feel-good, family approach to the process of building a program. I get rid of the coaches and players who are not good enough or are not all-in.

This is program needs gravitas.

 

[orange79]

This program needs players and wins, not a Marrone-type boot camp. I don't feel the staff needs to go drill-sergeant on the players. Defense played well enough this year - do you go hyper-discipline only on the offense (and ST's)? Unless you have inside info that most of us don't, it doesn't seem as if discipline is the problem.

What the staff needs to do is to go ballistic on the recruiting trail. And maybe take a coaching class or two, especially if the Lester remains as OC.

As far as the unis go, it's not Shafer's decision. I wish it were, as he seems to have a good handle on the history of the program, but it's not. I don't think at this point there is an appetite for handing back Nike's money.

 

[Alsacs]

From the first drive against Villanova, it just seemed that this was going to be a rough season.

There were moments early when I experienced feelings that I had not felt since the Robinson era.

Clearly the numerous injuries had a major impact on the season, but there were obvious problems even before that became an issue.

To be successful this program - by its nature, its history and its inherent limitations - must be disciplined, totally prepared and smart. We did not see enough of any of that this year.

If I am Shafer, I go back to what Marrone did when he arrived on the Hill - establish true accountability, a tough, no non-sense disciplinary regime.

I get rid of the beards, the hair, the gimmicky uniforms and the supposed feel-good, family approach to the process of building a program. I get rid of the coaches and players who are not good enough or are not all-in.

This is program needs gravitas.

OrangePa the beards and hair stuff is not a problem. These are kids who aren't professionals. That is not a problem. College FB is about flash, sizzle, and having fun. We need a new offensive philosophy though . Last year our coaching staff used the power run game with Jerome Smith and moved the ball. Our offensive identity has been filling a round peg into a square hole and not adapting.
The uniforms should be burned NOW. If we want different combos fine but we need more orange. Keeping Shafer is going to happen but next year we already have 4 losses @Florida State, @Louisville, Clemson, LSU good luck going 6-2 in the other 8 games.

 

[Millhouse]

You and the beards

 

[Finwad32]

I feel that there certainly needs to be more discipline. I would have to wager a bet that our ratio of penalties to red zone trips would have to be on par with the nations worst per capita. Maybe teams that get there a lot more often see inflated numbers due to the sheer amount of time they're there, but maybe not bc disciplined teams get there for a reason usually.

 

[OrangeDW]

OrangePa the beards and hair stuff is not a problem. These are kids who aren't professionals. That is not a problem. College FB is about flash, sizzle, and having fun. We need a new offensive philosophy though . Last year our coaching staff used the power run game with Jerome Smith and moved the ball. Our offensive identity has been filling a round peg into a square hole and not adapting.
The uniforms should be burned NOW. If we want different combos fine but we need more orange. Keeping Shafer is going to happen but next year we already have 4 losses @Florida State, @Louisville, Clemson, LSU good luck going 6-2 in the other 8 games.

Disagree with "already have 4 losses". We almost beat Clemson on the road this year. How are they an automatic loss? Some give that program way too much credit. They're good, not unbeatable.

Same thing with Louisville. Whenever they have a good year or two, everyone seems in a hurry to anoint them as some kind of power. They're just a pretty good program.

 

[orange79]

IMO, discipline on the field is not exactly the same as discipline 'instilled' by not allowing beards and dreds.

 

[Stern]

I get rid of the beards, the hair, the gimmicky uniforms

Oh my god, that is not the problem. These kids signed up to play football not the military. If they want to have a beard or wear dreads who the hell cares! It means nothing and will just push future recruits away if they know that coming to Syracuse means a military culture of grooming

 

[OrangePA]

Oh my god, that is not the problem. These kids signed up to play football not the military. If they want to have a beard or wear dreads who the hell cares! It means nothing and will just push future recruits away if they know that coming to Syracuse means a military culture of grooming

Get lost.

 

[OrangePA]

IMO, discipline on the field is not exactly the same as discipline 'instilled' by not allowing beards and dreds.

I don't agree with that.

There is an axiom that has long been an SU Football guideline.

Take care of the little things - the big things take care of themselves.

I recall at least three or fall false starts/off sides by the Orange yesterday.

I have seen numerous missed assignments on both sides throughout the season.

The kids seem to play hard, but there has been a lack of disciplined play this season.

Maybe to the lay person, the idea of pushing etiquette and personal appearance has no impact. But for anybody who has played at a competitive level, it means something. It meant something to John Wooden and Bob Knight and to Joe Paterno and Doug Marrone- that's good enough for me.

 

[OrangePA]

OrangePa the beards and hair stuff is not a problem. These are kids who aren't professionals. That is not a problem. College FB is about flash, sizzle, and having fun. We need a new offensive philosophy though . Last year our coaching staff used the power run game with Jerome Smith and moved the ball. Our offensive identity has been filling a round peg into a square hole and not adapting.
The uniforms should be burned NOW. If we want different combos fine but we need more orange. Keeping Shafer is going to happen but next year we already have 4 losses @Florida State, @Louisville, Clemson, LSU good luck going 6-2 in the other 8 games.

You know what?

I disagree with you.

Like it or not, college football is no longer about having fun. It's about pain, drudgery, intense commitment and intense physical and emotional sacrifice.

It's fun when the team wins.

And it is about as far away from an amateur endeavor as one can get.

I'm not all that happy about it, but that's the reality.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

So, if the players all had crew cuts and dressed like 1960's rocket scientists ... they won't jump offsides?

Maybe the team is undisciplined because of all the bullshit uniform combos?

 

[Alsacs]

Disagree with "already have 4 losses". We almost beat Clemson on the road this year. How are they an automatic loss? Some give that program way too much credit. They're good, not unbeatable.

Same thing with Louisville. Whenever they have a good year or two, everyone seems in a hurry to anoint them as some kind of power. They're just a pretty good program.

Clemson has the next big time QB in CFB Deshaun Watson. He broke his hand against Louisville and didn't play against us. If Watson plays against us Clemson scores 30+ points against us.
Petrino is recruiting well for Louisville and they have talent. The Cards and Tigers will be top 25 teams next year with their talent. I don't see it turning around for us next year.
LSU and FSU will have top 15 talent.
We will not win any of these 4 games unless our offense can score 30 points and I don't think our coaches can coach up our talent to get that done. I hope I am wrong but I am being a realist not a idealist.

 

[OrangePA]

So, if the players all had crew cuts and dressed like 1960's rocket scientists ... they won't jump offsides?

You can read my response to another poster.

But, in sum - yes.

When an athlete pays attention to the small things - when he is forced to demonstrate discipline - attention to detail - on a daily basis - shaving every day for example - he learns to transpose the approach to the playing field.

Marrone did not bring back the singing of the school song or the wearing of formal team shirts during interviews or the personal grooming requirements because of personal taste.

He did it to teach the players how to succeed.

When I coach, I insist that my players take actions - shining of cleats before games for example - keeping uniform jerseys on hangers - that to some/many might seem pointless.

But it isn't pointless.

The fact is that kids want/yearn for discipline. Kids may complain, but deep down they appreciate the rules and the protocol requirements.

Will I take Amare Cooper wearing a beard, over a clean shaven Ben Lewis? Of course.

But right now we are not getting the five star WR or QB.

We are getting solid three star athletes that need to raise their level of play with more than just physical talent.

And what I propose, in my opinion, helps the player do that.

 

[Alsacs]

My god OrangePa if the game isn't about fun why play college football. These kids do not get paid they are getting athletic scholarships. Discipline wasn't here even with Marrone. We always had stupid personal fouls when he was the coach he just game planned the team well and always had a pro mindset while being a college coach.

This kids are college kids not New York Yankees. Bobby Knight era mentality is long gone. Look at the top teams today Florida State, Alabama, Oregon these teams are full of kids with facial hair,dreads, Tattoos.

Should the coaches take away the kids Playstations, Xbox, and IPhones as well?

 

[OrangeDW]

Clemson has the next big time QB in CFB Deshaun Watson. He broke his hand against Louisville and didn't play against us. If Watson plays against us Clemson scores 30+ points against us.
Petrino is recruiting well for Louisville and they have talent. The Cards and Tigers will be top 25 teams next year with their talent. I don't see it turning around for us next year.
LSU and FSU will have top 15 talent.
We will not win any of these 4 games unless our offense can score 30 points and I don't think our coaches can coach up our talent to get that done. I hope I am wrong but I am being a realist not a idealist.

We'll see. I remember a few years ago Louisville was supposed to blow us out of the Dome, and the opposite happened. I think they had some injuries then. Injuries happen. Maybe next year, they'll happen less to us, and more to some opponents.

There are too many variables to write off any potential top 25 opponent as an automatic loss a year ahead of time. We aren't talking about powerhouse programs here, just pretty good ones.

 

[OrangePA]

My god OrangePa if the game isn't about fun why play college football. These kids do not get paid they are getting athletic scholarships. Discipline wasn't here even with Marrone. We always had stupid personal fouls when he was the coach he just game planned the team well and always had a pro mindset while being a college coach.

This kids are college kids not New York Yankees. Bobby Knight era mentality is long gone. Look at the top teams today Florida State, Alabama, Oregon these teams are full of kids with facial hair,dreads, Tattoos.

Should the coaches take away the kids Playstations, Xbox, and IPhones as well?

I love your enthusiasm. I really do.

But have you been living in a cave for forty years?

Do you really think these kids play this game for the fun of it?

They play because deep in their souls or those of their family members or others, they believe that they will make it to the NFL and drive beautiful cars, live in beautiful homes and live wonderful lives.

The fact that from a statistical standpoint, that is not true, is irrelevant.

These kids are professional athletes. They are different than you and I were in college.

And our kids, at this point, do not have the talent of the Alabamas or Oregons. That comparison begs the question - how do we compete with the talent deficiency we have?

And part of the way we do is by doing what we have done in the past when we have been successful - intense attention to detail on and off the field.

Not what we did under Greg or what we did this year under Scott.

And it has nothing to do with technology. We can incorporate technology into what I suggest - just as others at SU did in the past when we won a lot of football games.

 

[Alsacs]

We'll see. I remember a few years ago Louisville was supposed to blow us out of the Dome, and the opposite happened. I think they had some injuries then. Injuries happen. Maybe next year, they'll happen less to us, and more to some opponents.

There are too many variables to write off any potential top 25 opponent as an automatic loss a year ahead of time. We aren't talking about powerhouse programs here, just pretty good ones.

2 years Louisville was undefeated and #10 and they were only a 1 point favorite at the Dome. Vegas knew were good in 2012 if that was the game you are talking about.
2008 and 2010 Louisville beat us the Dome.

 

[orange79]

I don't agree with that.

There is an axiom that has long been an SU Football guideline.

Take care of the little things - the big things take care of themselves.

I recall at least three or fall false starts/off sides by the Orange yesterday.

I have seen numerous missed assignments on both sides throughout the season.

The kids seem to play hard, but there has been a lack of disciplined play this season.

Maybe to the lay person, the idea of pushing etiquette and personal appearance has no impact. But for anybody who has played at a competitive level, it means something. It meant something to John Wooden and Bob Knight and to Joe Paterno and Doug Marrone- that's good enough for me.

So, if the players weren't allowed to have beards and dreds, we'd have fewer false starts and offsides penalties? Sorry, not buying it. Plenty of beards/dreds on the Oregon team. They seem to be doing OK, no? Plenty of them in the pros, too. Penalties happen because of over-exuberance or under-practice. Sometimes, lack of thinking things through, also. But beards? No.

 

[Stern]

My god OrangePa if the game isn't about fun why play college football. These kids do not get paid they are getting athletic scholarships. Discipline wasn't here even with Marrone. We always had stupid personal fouls when he was the coach he just game planned the team well and always had a pro mindset while being a college coach.

This kids are college kids not New York Yankees. Bobby Knight era mentality is long gone. Look at the top teams today Florida State, Alabama, Oregon these teams are full of kids with facial hair,dreads, Tattoos.

Should the coaches take away the kids Playstations, Xbox, and IPhones as well?

lol, thank you!

 

[Stern]

So, if the players weren't allowed to have beards and dreds, we'd have fewer false starts and offsides penalties? Sorry, not buying it. Plenty of beards/dreds on the Oregon team. They seem to be doing OK, no? Plenty of them in the pros, too. Penalties happen because of over-exuberance or under-practice. Sometimes, lack of thinking things through, also. But beards? No.

OrangePa is stuck in the 1950's and doesn't understand modern football. He is like the "team mom" worried if the players uniforms are ironed and kids have matching shoes and can't have any facial hair. It's unreal

 

[OrangePA]

So, if the players weren't allowed to have beards and dreds, we'd have fewer false starts and offsides penalties? Sorry, not buying it. Plenty of beards/dreds on the Oregon team. They seem to be doing OK, no? Plenty of them in the pros, too. Penalties happen because of over-exuberance or under-practice. Sometimes, lack of thinking things through, also. But beards? No.

I just don't think you get it - I think you're being way too literal.

The comparison between the athletic performance of Oregon to that of our team at this stage in our program's development really misses the point - strikingly so.

And the notion that strict team protocol - espoused by coaches such as Joe Paterno, Vince Lombardi, Tom Coughlin, and John Wooden - means nothing as far as actual performance on the field, ignores their success.

Yes, insisting that Bill Walton cut his hair and that the UCLA players learn how to put on their socks a certain way, did not make them better athletes and probably did not improve their FT%, but it did in less direct ways improve their competitive performance by teaching them the value of attention to detail and the need to honor protocol.

I wonder whether you played or coached at a fairly high level of team sport competition.

 

[orange79]

You don't get it.

Then explain it to me. Explain how no beards will keep us from jumping offsides.

 

[OrangePA]

Then explain it to me. Explain how no beards will keep us from jumping offsides.

Read above.

It's about the essence of coaching and teaching.

It's about developing good study habits.

It's about attention to detail. Discipline. Paying attention to instruction. Eliminating the adverse effects of emotion.

When you have to do things every day that you might not want to do, it forces you to pay attention, to be alert - to value instruction.

Again, respectfully, I wonder if you have ever been involved in high level team sports competition.

 

[OrangePA]

OrangePa is stuck in the 1950's and doesn't understand modern football. He is like the "team mom" worried if the players uniforms are ironed and kids have matching shoes and can't have any facial hair. It's unreal

Actually the ideas I am presenting are those of Doug Marrone circa 2009.

You may remember him.

I recall you telling us that he was over his head as HC of the SU Football Program.

I think you also announced that Dwight Freeney would never make the Pro Football HOF.

You have revealed you utter lack of knowledge on many occasions.

And, as we have all learned, you despise our program. You applaud our losses. You hate the University.

Again, please leave this board to those who care about SU Football.

Thank you.