Bad Season

[orange79]

Read above.

It's about the essence of coaching and teaching.

It's about developing good study habits.

It's about attention to detail. Discipline. Paying attention to instruction. Eliminating the adverse effects of emotion.

When you have to do things every day that you might not want to do, it forces you to pay attention, to be alert - to value instruction.

Again, respectfully, I wonder if you have ever been involved in high level team sports competition.

I just don't think you get it - I think you're being way too literal.

The comparison between the athletic performance of Oregon to that of our team at this stage in our program's development really misses the point - strikingly so.

And the notion that strict team protocol - espoused by coaches such as Joe Paterno, Vince Lombardi, Tom Coughlin, and John Wooden - means nothing as far as actual performance on the field, ignores their success.

Yes, insisting that Bill Walton cut his hair and that the UCLA players learn how to put on their socks a certain way, did not make them better athletes and probably did not improve their FT%, but it did in less direct ways improve their competitive performance by teaching them the value of attention to detail and the need to honor protocol.

I wonder whether you played or coached at a fairly high level of team sport competition.

So, last post for me on this, because I will never convince you to change your mind, just as you will never convince me to change mine.

I guess I will never understand how eliminating beards will automatically help the kids to develop good study habits and pay attention to instruction. Are you saying the kids now don't pay attention - how do they learn the play book? As alsacs stated above, kids should have fun playing the game. Apparently, that is anathema to the way you think the game (note the word 'game') should be played. And if you think I'm being too literal, read some of your posts to see what I am referring to. And the comparison to Oregon nowhere near 'misses the point'. Or is it your opinion that the type of student athlete SU attracts is fundamentally different than those that Oregon attracts. Comparing where Oregon is in its stage of development compared to SU misses the point - strikingly so. As does whether or not I (or anyone else on this board) have played or coached - at any level.

 

[orange79]

Actually the ideas I am presenting are those of Doug Marrone circa 2009.

You may remember him.

I recall you telling us that he was over his head as HC of the SU Football Program.

I think you also announced that Dwight Freeney would never make the Pro Football HOF.

You have revealed you utter lack of knowledge on many occasions.

And, as we have all learned, you despise our program. You applaud our losses. You hate the University.

Again, please leave this board to those who care about SU Football.

Thank you.

It's an internet board. No one has to leave just because they don't agree with you.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What's funny is how conveniently people forget the on and off field discipline problems we had under Marrone.

 

[cmr27]

Yes, insisting that Bill Walton cut his hair and that the UCLA players learn how to put on their socks a certain way, did not make them better athletes and probably did not improve their FT%, but it did in less direct ways improve their competitive performance by teaching them the value of attention to detail and the need to honor protocol.

I wonder whether you played or coached at a fairly high level of team sport competition.

Agreed. It's about self-discipline and the mental exertion necessary to focus on details. Disciplined teams have to get beaten by somebody. An undisciplined team always defeats itself. You could argue too that durability reflects discipline. Wooden made his guys put socks on a certain way because he didn't want them getting blisters during games (remember, footwear wasn't as good back in the day). For Syracuse, I'd start the offseason review with questions about training. Are guys over-exerting themselves in the gym -- kids love to show off -- or not doing their workouts as coaches want? I'm fine with Shafer but I'd be asking a lot of questions about the S&C coaches. Poor training technique can put you in a bad position during a play and we've certainly had our share of injuries.

 

[Stern]

I think you also announced that Dwight Freeney would never make the Pro Football HOF.
.

Again a bunch of lies. I said Harrison got robbed for not making the hall of fame last year and Coughlin and Freeney probably WILL make the Hall of Fame.

I did say McNabbb will never make it, which is true he won't. But you like to make stuff up and attach my name to it

 

[Stern]

What's funny is how conveniently people forget the on and off field discipline problems we had under Marrone.

No crap. But at least the kids had hair-cuts and no beards when they had run-in's with the law

 

[SU2NASA]

So, if the players all had crew cuts and dressed like 1960's rocket scientists ... they won't jump offsides?

Maybe the team is undisciplined because of all the bullshit uniform combos?

I wouldn't jump offsides.

 

[MSOrange]

I wouldn't jump offsides.

So which one is you in that photo?

 

[orange79]

So which one is you in that photo?

EECOM - 2nd from the left, watching another Duke TD

 

[OrangePA]

Again a bunch of lies. I said Harrison got robbed for not making the hall of fame last year and Coughlin and Freeney probably WILL make the Hall of Fame.

I did say McNabbb will never make it, which is true he won't. But you like to make stuff up and attach my name to it

Your forgot something.

You declared that Marrone was over his head as the SU HC.

I recall you pretty well - you are the one who happily announced to us that you were cancelling your season tix - you wanted us to know.

And you are the one who stays pretty quiet when we win but are all over this board when we lose.

And that is why I would like you to go away - not because I may disagree with you but because I do not enjoy having a person who so clearly dislikes the program and the university piping in when we have difficulty.

To anybody out there who is more adept at this board technology that I am.

Can anybody find Stern's post on Freeney and the HOF?

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Dumbest. Thread. Ever. However I do believe in discipline. Just not 1950's discipline.

 

[OrangePA]

What's funny is how conveniently people forget the on and off field discipline problems we had under Marrone.

Who forgot those incidents?

Off field issues, like the Delone Carter snow ball incident are not relevant to the discussion.

At least my part of it.

 

[OrangePA]

Dumbest. Thread. Ever. However I do believe in discipline. Just not 1950's discipline.

Tell us genius what discipline you believe in?

And while you're at it, tell us what constitutes "1950s discipline."

 

[OrangeXtreme]

EECOM - 2nd from the left, watching another Duke TD

We had a Main Bus "B" undervolt.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Who forgot those incidents?

Off field issues, like the Delone Carter snow ball incident are not relevant to the discussion.

At least my part of it.

If you remembered the lack of on field discipline we saw during the Marrone era, I doubt you would be saying our team should behave more like Marrone's teams.

What we really need more than anything is to figure out how to have an offense that generates points that give the team more slack to mess up on defense, get called for penalties, make mistakes on special teams and overcome bad coaching decisions.

 

[AZOrange]

Tell us genius what discipline you believe in? And while you're at it, tell us what constitutes "1950s discipline."

plenty of coaches can and do instill discipline regardless of facial hair. See popovichs Spurs for example. That said there is something to be said for discipline and accountability and most great teams have that in spades. It just doesn't have anything to do with hair. Curfews, showing up on time, speaking well, not being a cancer are all relevant

 

[orange79]

We had a Main Bus "B" undervolt.

Main Bus "B"???? That's SU2NASA's specialty!

 

[OrangePA]

It's an internet board. No one has to leave just because they don't agree with you.

Again you don't seem to understand.

Let me try to help you.

I enjoy the banter over issues raised on the board - I post to spur discussion and argument and disagreement. That makes the board fun.

And, I have enjoyed our disagreement today. It has been interesting to read how you and others feel.

And Millhouse with whom I have rarely agreed over more than a decade, is always a laugh when he joins this kind of discussion.

His pseudo intellectualism, with the short-hand references and the regular use of the words "stupid," "dumb" and "crap" are funny and entertaining. He knows that I respond to him for fun.

What I don't like is a guy like Stern who posts when we are having trouble and who as I have observed hates the program and the University.

I don't want to hear from a guy like that even when I agree with him. And I do agree with him some of the time. For example, I happen to agree with him that Shafer has not coached well this year.

But I still don't want to hear from him for the reasons I have given.

 

[orange79]

Who forgot those incidents?

Off field issues, like the Delone Carter snow ball incident are not relevant to the discussion.

At least my part of it.

Not relevant? So, you don't care if the discipline you want to instill doesn't carry over to off-the-field behavior? Honest question.

 

[Quazzum69]

This guy probably had lots of discipline.

 

[MSOrange]

Again you don't seem to understand.

Let me try to help you.

I enjoy the banter over issues raised on the board - I post to spur discussion and argument and disagreement. That makes the board fun.

And, I have enjoyed our disagreement today. It has been interesting to read how you and others feel.

And Millhouse with whom I have rarely agreed over more than a decade, is always a laugh when he joins this kind of discussion.

His pseudo intellectualism, with the short-hand references and the regular use of the words "stupid," "dumb" and "crap" are funny and entertaining. He knows that I respond to him for fun.

What I don't like is a guy like Stern who posts when we are having trouble and who as I have observed hates the program and the University.

I don't want to hear from a guy like that even when I agree with him. And I do agree with him some of the time. For example, I happen to agree with him that Shafer has not coached well this year.

But I still don't want to hear from him for the reasons I have given.

Are you familiar with the ignore feature?

 

[rrlbees]

You can read my response to another poster. But, in sum - yes. When an athlete pays attention to the small things - when he is forced to demonstrate discipline - attention to detail - on a daily basis - shaving every day for example - he learns to transpose the approach to the playing field. Marrone did not bring back the singing of the school song or the wearing of formal team shirts during interviews or the personal grooming requirements because of personal taste. He did it to teach the players how to succeed. When I coach, I insist that my players take actions - shining of cleats before games for example - keeping uniform jerseys on hangers - that to some/many might seem pointless. But it isn't pointless. The fact is that kids want/yearn for discipline. Kids may complain, but deep down they appreciate the rules and the protocol requirements. Will I take Amare Cooper wearing a beard, over a clean shaven Ben Lewis? Of course. But right now we are not getting the five star WR or QB. We are getting solid three star athletes that need to raise their level of play with more than just physical talent. And what I propose, in my opinion, helps the player do that.

I know what you are saying and there is a lot of truth to it. I think some are looking at your points in a vacuum and not the big picture. Teams that consistently have 4-5 star players can beat you with talent alone. Discipline doesn't play a big part. I remember during Miami's hey day, they didn't have any discipline. Teams that have 2 and 3 star players have to do things differently. Discipline is one. It doesn't mean we won't jump off sides but the little things that are easy to instill discipline to, can lead to better discipline in the big picture. Sometimes our discipline mistakes are talent and not necessarily discipline.

 

[CousCuse]

Tell us genius what discipline you believe in?

And while you're at it, tell us what constitutes "1950s discipline."

1950's discipline consisted mainly of vigorous spanking and general humiliation. Not my thing , but many people would respond to it.

 

[BKCuse]

What's funny is how conveniently people forget the on and off field discipline problems we had under Marrone.

I was going to say the same thing. In fact the penalties were far WORSE under Marrone. The false starts were at an all-time high and we were consistently killing ourselves with penalties on both sides of the ball.

If you're an old Skool guy and don't like the new uniforms that's your prerogative but it's complete nonsense to say they are effecting wins and losses.

We're in the ACC with a predominantly Big East roster. We've over scheduled ourselves and have been decimated by injuries.

Clean shaves and old uniforms won't change that.

 

[bevosu]

The team that probably started it all (modern era). They didn't do too badly.