BC Irrelevancy

[HSPORANGE]

The Patriots were awful awful from 88-92.

The team was competitive in the late 70s thru mid 80s.

It's not a bandwagon town. It's a town that demands being competitive. They won't tolerate losing without trying to improve.

The move to CT was all about $$$.
Boston and the state of MA doesn't give billionaires State money to build stadiums.
Hartford was going to build Kraft a football stadium so he talked with them. That deal had nothing to do with the attendance in Foxboro.

Since Kraft bought the team in 1993 and Parcells started the rebuild every game has been sold out and the season ticket waiting lists tens of thousands deep. This is before Belichick/Brady.

The owner before Kraft wanted to sell the team. Football was going to be in the Boston area even they moved and got an expansion team.

This is pretty much the definition of bandwagon. Fans stopped going because they were brutal and I can't say I blame them (some fan bases go no matter how bad their team is similar to Green Bay/Buffalo/Chicago/etc). And of course they have been selling out and creating sth waiting list since Parcells as the team has been very good and competitive.

You put the Patriot fans as the gold bar for Boston sports fans and I would disagree. I would say The Red Sox and B's have a more loyal fan bases as they seem to show up good or bad. Not overly familiar with Celtics.

I fully understand the CT stadium saga was about public funds.

I guess time will tell how the sth lists and stadium looks after Brady/Belichek retire.

 

[CousCuse]

I think

The Northeast at least has emerging power UMass. What is their record? I heard they were going to win a lot of games this year.

This is the reason I pull for UMASS and all the Northeast teams as I think more and better teams will spur more interest. Competition is good. Also, I think SU has its own problems to worry about and don't have any room to criticize other programs. Old Dominion is as good as MTSU.

 

[Alsacs]

This is pretty much the definition of bandwagon. Fans stopped going because they were brutal and I can't say I blame them (some fan bases go no matter how bad their team is similar to Green Bay/Buffalo/Chicago/etc). And of course they have been selling out and creating sth waiting list since Parcells as the team has been very good and competitive.

You put the Patriot fans as the gold bar for Boston sports fans and I would disagree. I would say The Red Sox and B's have a more loyal fan bases as they seem to show up good or bad. Not overly familiar with Celtics.

I fully understand the CT stadium saga was about public funds.

I guess time will tell how the sth lists and stadium looks after Brady/Belichek retire.

I didn't put them as the gold standard.
I put them first because the Patriots are the most popular team by miles.

Also Red Sox fans are very bandwagon google pink hats.

Patriots were bad from 1988-1992 so yeah they were technically sold out but nobody went.

 

[elimunelson]

That's the Addazzio plan

That's our plan right now too. Until this offense is capable of knocking off FSU/Clemson/Louisville and we start each season with reasonable scenarios where we can point to those games as Ws, this schedule will perpetually be one w 3 losses out of the gate. That's a tough road for a team from the Northeast.

BC was lucky by getting good in the late 2000s with Bobby Bowden losing it at the end, Clemson not having Dabo yet, etc. It can happen again but right now it's tough sledding.

 

[RandomGuy]

If bc was relevant nationally, they'd still be fairly irrelevant in Boston.

If bill belichick and Tom Brady decided to be head/QB coach for bc next year? They'd be relevant for a couple games. If they recruited Jesus Khrist at qb, with a perfect QB rating, and 110% completion rate on hail Marys? That wouldn't do it. If he changed the water into wine? Definitely a 2 game bump. Until they changed the name on the uniform to "Patriots" no more would come. And then they'd ask who are all these teams I've never heard of playing the Patriots?

That's how irrelevant I believe bc football is to Boston. Ohh. And I don't even need a car to get to the stadium.

 

[tep624]

Just going to throw it out there - playing teams like Clemson really doesn't do a whole lot for me other than having the opportunity to beat a ranked team just like any other ranked team. The Northeast independents as a whole that are now part of the expanded ACC have unquestionably lost identity and it's probably the worst for BC being off on an island of their own in New England.

Aligning the divisions in the ACC based on geography and history would add some significance to the games as it exists now. The problem we have is a lack of historical northern independents to round out an 8 team division. Which ultimately leads to the Notre Dame question once again.

I wish we had this:

ACC North
BC
Louisville
Pitt
Syracuse
Miami
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
Notre Dame

ACC South
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
NC St.
North Carolina
Virginia

 

[NKR1978]

What BC needs is a new marketing campaign . . . a new brand, like Boston's College Team or perhaps we should think bigger, New England's College Team.

All kidding aside, perhaps BC needs to market students from the other schools to become interested in the city's only P5 program. Offer substantially reduced tickets to any local college student. Try to target those schools with students that will likely stay in the region so as to create lifelong fans.

To be fair, I have attended three universities, all of which were in a P5 conference, so I have no idea how well student attendance is at smaller schools' games, which potentially would be affected. If this plan "stole" student attendance from the smaller schools, I could see where it could cause political issues.

They can call themselves the New England Patriots.

 

[TexanMark]

Maybe i'm just becoming eternally realistic but I see no scenario (absent a dream 1987 season) where the national ranking of the conference will be determinant of us having a successful season. The reason I was frustrated with the Big East was that it was going to be steamrolled w conference realignment and we were fighting for our existence. That existence was getting into a conference that would survive expansion. We won, thank the heavens. Ironic at the time, only Jim Boeheim pissed in the cheerios of this move b/c he knew his basketball team was going to lose its cultural/geographical footing in the Big East. They weathered the storm b/c they are a top 10 program. The hoops team could be put into the Pac 10 and would be successful to some extent.

Now that we have the money, the conference and I guess the non mocking nature of being with the ACC teams, I want to see it tailored to Syracuse's best interest which is playing teams that are more Syracuse-like. I don't care that Clemson and FSU has won the National Title. It doesn't move the needle for Syracuse at all or me. I'd rather us have all this money, be in the division with our conference peers and see us squeeze out our 8-10 win seasons again. Again, that's the pragmatist of Syracuse football speaking. I won't begrudge anyone who has loftier expectations.

The only way is to get a Duke/UNC/Miami and give up FSU/NCSt/Wake

OOC games are important. UConn should be on the schedule almost every year. Throw in Temple/Army/Navy/Rutgers often Play Ohio/MI based MAC teams.

We need almost 3 automatic OOC wins.

 

[TheCusian]

That's our plan right now too. Until this offense is capable of knocking off FSU/Clemson/Louisville and we start each season with reasonable scenarios where we can point to those games as Ws, this schedule will perpetually be one w 3 losses out of the gate. That's a tough road for a team from the Northeast.

BC was lucky by getting good in the late 2000s with Bobby Bowden losing it at the end, Clemson not having Dabo yet, etc. It can happen again but right now it's tough sledding.

OrangeDW said: "Eh. He might upgrade their talent some, but he'll keep them playing meathead ball and he's not a good gameday coach. Scheduling 4 scrub team and winning a couple conference games in a much weaker league than the ACC, doesn't have me all that impressed or worried."

I said that's the Addazzio plan...

We currently don't play 4 scrub teams in OOC, meathead ball, and seem to have a pretty good gameday coach. BC scheduled themselves a bowl game last year. Addazzio is what you see when you look up meathead in the dictionary. To his credit he's played good teams tight and won some too.

But give me an easier OOC and an exciting offense over what BC does all day, every day.

 

[TheCusian]

Just going to throw it out there - playing teams like Clemson really doesn't do a whole lot for me other than having the opportunity to beat a ranked team just like any other ranked team. The Northeast independents as a whole that are now part of the expanded ACC have unquestionably lost identity and it's probably the worst for BC being off on an island of their own in New England.

Aligning the divisions in the ACC based on geography and history would add some significance to the games as it exists now. The problem we have is a lack of historical northern independents to round out an 8 team division. Which ultimately leads to the Notre Dame question once again.

I wish we had this:

ACC North
BC
Louisville
Pitt
Syracuse
Miami
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
Notre Dame

ACC South
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
NC St.
North Carolina
Virginia

I get it - people want the BE with ACC money. Not going to happen in a million years.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

They aren't forbidden to talk about it, no one wants to hear about it. I don't think that's a bad thing mind you. It's a marketplace of what interests people. The entire reason i brought up the article is that I feel like BC Football is trending even more downward with the loss of geographical rivals to at least prop up the interest vs playing Clemson/NC State. These aren't peer schools for BC or Syracuse.

Growing up in the Northeast I had several friends who went to Georgetown, UConn, Villanova, Boston College, and Rutgers. The sports season provided a reason to reconnect. When we played those teams in sports it was nice to beat them because there was the trash talking element of it. I do not know anyone who went to NC State, UNC, Clemson, Florida State, etc. I think it definitely takes something away when you don't have connections with alumni from those schools.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

BC very much considers cuse it's biggest rival. There's a sign in the facility counting down the days to Syracuse...

Is this serious or hyperbole? Genuinely interested.

 

[RandomGuy]

Is this serious or hyperbole? Genuinely interested.

When they walk out of the locker room(non stadium side), they are instantly greeted with a big orange SYRACUSE sign. Counts down days, hours, minutes.(set hundreds of days in advance). They see it every day. Coaches and players? They care enough about that game to remind themselves of it. Every day.

Maybe I'm wrong, but looks like they take cuse very seriously. It's the only non-bc sign in the building.(afaik)

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

When they walk out of the locker room(non stadium side), they are instantly greeted with a big orange SYRACUSE sign. Counts down days, hours, minutes.(set hundreds of days in advance). They see it every day. Coaches and players? They care enough about that game to remind themselves of it. Every day.

Maybe I'm wrong, but looks like they take cuse very seriously. It's the only non-bc sign in the building.(afaik)

Wow.

 

[gbo]

The Northeast at least has emerging power UMass. What is their record? I heard they were going to win a lot of games this year.

 

[elimunelson]

Growing up in the Northeast I had several friends who went to Georgetown, UConn, Villanova, Boston College, and Rutgers. The sports season provided a reason to reconnect. When we played those teams in sports it was nice to beat them because there was the trash talking element of it. I do not know anyone who went to NC State, UNC, Clemson, Florida State, etc. I think it definitely takes something away when you don't have connections with alumni from those schools.

it's an issue for sure. Rutgers/Uconn are our peers, not NC State and Clemson. It's a weird shotgun marriage that was 100% money driven. I am ok w it b/c I sold my soul for having a seat at the table for conference realignment. There's a reason guys like Jake Crouthamel and Jim Boeheim were reluctant to be gung ho for it. They were pioneers of the eastern seaboard football/basketball model.

 

[RandomGuy]

View attachment 109757

Yeah. UMass board voted on ceasing fbs football last year... Football continued by a small margin. 5 or 6,000 at Gillette is not good... I hope they figure it out.

 

[HSPORANGE]

it's an issue for sure. Rutgers/Uconn are our peers, not NC State and Clemson. It's a weird shotgun marriage that was 100% money driven. I am ok w it b/c I sold my soul for having a seat at the table for conference realignment. There's a reason guys like Jake Crouthamel and Jim Boeheim were reluctant to be gung ho for it. They were pioneers of the eastern seaboard football/basketball model.

I'm curious as to why you think Butgers/Uconn are our peers? I understand why NC ST and Clemson are not. Are you basing it just on being in the NE? I would view BC/Miami/WFmore as peers as they are private schools and not public. Boeheim is always reluctant to change and Jake was a dinosaur.

 

[CuseCactus]

I'm curious as to why you think Butgers/Uconn are our peers? I understand why NC ST and Clemson are not. Are you basing it just on being in the NE? I would view BC/Miami/WFmore as peers as they are private schools and not public. Boeheim is always reluctant to change and Jake was a dinosaur.

I'd say UConn was a peer. No longer - they are fading. Just by virtue of geography and membership in the Big10 Rutgers is absolutely a peer - along with Wake, Pitt, BC, Duke, and other 2nd tier football schools. Miami seems to be moving back into upper echelon status. Frankly, we had a brief period where we were Miami's peer in the 90's. I expect our record against them is lopsided - maybe 2 or 3 wins on our side of the ledger?

 

[CousCuse]

Yeah. UMass board voted on ceasing fbs football last year... Football continued by a small margin. 5 or 6,000 at Gillette is not good... I hope they figure it out.

Their defense played strong against ODU but their best offensive player, NFL prospect TE Brennan was out. There is still some chance they can turn it around this season.

 

[RandomGuy]

Their defense played strong against ODU but their best offensive player, NFL prospect TE Brennan was out. There is still some chance they can turn it around this season.

I believe Brennan is ranked #1 TE prospect in the country. However, I was referring to their viability in the fbs. I thought they failed their fbs attendance minimums... Like BC, no one cares much about college football...

 

[djorange1989]

It helps that they started winning. Couldn't get 10K to the United Center a decade ago.

yeah, between the losing and old man Wirtz keeping all of their games off free TV back then, it was a PR nightmare.

 

[tep624]

I believe Brennan is ranked #1 TE prospect in the country. However, I was referring to their viability in the fbs. I thought they failed their fbs attendance minimums... Like BC, no one cares much about college football...

Breneman was a huge recruit at PSU. Top 100 national recruit. Early commit to PSU along with Hackenberg and both stuck with PSU even after the sanctions were announced and most of their recruiting class bailed. Quit football for a while after injuries and then reappeared at UMASS. Definite NFL prospect now.

UMASS has done a good job bringing in Northeast kids that are bouncebacks from P5 programs or who decommitted/had scholarships pulled for one reason or another. Just doesn't look like it's coming together on the field for them unfortunately.

 

[elimunelson]

I'm curious as to why you think Butgers/Uconn are our peers? I understand why NC ST and Clemson are not. Are you basing it just on being in the NE? I would view BC/Miami/WFmore as peers as they are private schools and not public. Boeheim is always reluctant to change and Jake was a dinosaur.

sure throw BC in there as well and WF, Maryland, etc. I'm not saying only those schools but we are certainly aligned w UConn and Rutgers more than the southern schools. Am I crazy to say that? I feel like i'm watching a product that everyone else is not seeing. We are a very very very mediocre football program going on about 14 years now. Our peers are northeast schools that you would perceive as mediocre (over a period of 17 years). BC you could argue is heads and shoulders above us since they had a really nice run recently.

We aren't peers with WVU/Penn ST/VATech and probably Pitt. The first 3 are glaringly obvious and Pitt, who seems to have a new coach every time I change my oil seem to be bowling every year (14 out of the last 17 years).

All i'm saying is we aren't that good and we should look down on any program. Who we play on a yearly basis will help us get out of this rut, in my opinion.

 

[shantydaze]

As someone from the Midwest, I am far from a traditionalist when it comes Northeast football. My first SU game was at the Orange Bowl in 1993 as a University of Miami student. I transferred to the University of Wisconsin and did not give much thought to SU football until becoming a student in 1997. The first game was my new school (SU) giving the school I just graduated from (UW) a beat down at the Meadowlands. I was lucky as two of my three years on the Hill coincided with McNabb's time.

One of the things that struck me was the lack of a specific rival in football; one that both fan bases acknowledged. Miami had FSU, Wisconsin had Minnesota. Syracuse had ? Perhaps it was because I was no longer an undergrad and I was out of the loop, but it did not seem there was one school on the schedule ever year we looked forward to playing and beating. Could Boston College be that team? Maybe. Both schools draw from the same regions. I just have a had hard time getting excited about BC.

Not to be blasphemous, but the basketball games I always looked forward to were not Georgetown, rather, it was UConn. The dislike I had for UConn basketball bled over to football once UConn joined the Big East. I thought SU/UConn was turning into a pretty good rivalry (it least in my own mind) before the implosion of the league. This is one of the reasons I am an outlier here and would not mind seeing UConn joining the ACC.

Not that we would ever be its first and most important rival, but for the same reasons, I would love to be in the same division as Duke. Based on the schools recent battles in basketball, I think the fan bases could develop a wonderful dislike for each other in all sports, including lacrosse. I am not sure there is another team in the ACC currently that I would like to see SU play on an annual basis. Duke is a team we should be competitive with in football, is a peer of SU, and is a game I think could get the fan base excited.