BE headed for split?

[cuseguy]

Sooner rather than later?

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...-than-later/L1V3qro4kGrKpenNbEqDkO/story.html

 

[orange79]

"If there is a common thread, it is that football once again is at the top of the agenda, which makes the core group of basketball-playing Catholic schools nervous; a split within the conference appears to be more of a possibility than ever before.
Included in that group are Marquette, Providence, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Villanova, DePaul, and St. John’s, with the possibility of Xavier, Dayton, and even Butler (although Butler has committed to the Atlantic 10) being targeted as part of a 10-team - primarily Catholic - basketball conference. (Notre Dame said it would not take part in a split.)"

A. Where/when did ND say this?
B. F 'em. Let's see how they enjoy life in the A-10

 

[Jake]

If this happens, the money on the table for each half of the group shrinks significantly...,making the acc money more of a bonus.

 

[javadoc]

If this happens, the money on the table for each half of the group shrinks significantly...,making the acc money more of a bonus.

Just being in the damn ACC is enough of a bonus. Look at the circus the BE has become. Try to rebuild a program in that.

 

[cuseguy]

If the BE implodes like they're talking, I'll be glad we're in the ACC. But I still have a soft spot for the Big East. It should have never happened like this.

 

[44PRIDE]

I know we bash on them with impunity, but this is a really scary situation for Rutgers and UConn. They genuinely have no landing spot for their programs. Cinci and USF will eventually head to some iteration of Conference USA, which is honestly a good spot for them.

 

[PeteCalvin]

If the BE implodes like they're talking, I'll be glad we're in the ACC. But I still have a soft spot for the Big East. It should have never happened like this.

Blame the 12 angry university presidents that shot down last year's TV deal. They push that through, no one is talking about this mess right now.

 

[kingottoiii]

I wonder if the timing of the new ACC TV contract and the news that the BE might split is a coincidence? Maybe the ACC is thinking that they could get more money by going from $13 to $17 now before adding ND and UConn? It is easier going from $17 to $25 than $13 to $25? Otherwise why sign now if SU and Pitt don't start play for another year?

 

[rrlbees]

Blame the 12 angry university presidents that shot down last year's TV deal. They push that through, no one is talking about this mess right now.

Even with that tv deal, I think su, pitt and WVU would have left.

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[xc84]

What does "split" mean? The private Catholic schools will ride out the BE forever. It could be the FB schools leave...but I see no reason for B-ball schools to give up their affiliation with the BE.

 

[44PRIDE]

What does "split" mean? The private Catholic schools will ride out the BE forever. It could be the FB schools leave...but I see no reason for B-ball schools to give up their affiliation with the BE.

By split, I think we are looking at the dissolution of the Big East conference. Everyone takes their 20 pieces of gold and walk their separate ways.

 

[All4SU]

If the BE implodes like they're talking, I'll be glad we're in the ACC. But I still have a soft spot for the Big East. It should have never happened like this.

I have a soft spot for the old BE, prior to UL and USF, Cincy et al. The new BE, meh! Let the chips fall.

 

[Scooch]

By split, I think we are looking at the dissolution of the Big East conference. Everyone takes their 20 pieces of gold and walk their separate ways.

Doubtful. I'd expect there to be a massive fight over which side owns the BE name, MSG deal, tourney credits, etc.

 

[xc84]

Doubtful. I'd expect there to be a massive fight over which side owns the BE name, MSG deal, tourney credits, etc.

Exactly. There is no way Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, etc. will dissolve or leave the BE. There is no where else to go and starting a new league with the same teams makes no sense $$-wise. The BE will still be a money maker for these teams.

 

[SmilinBob]

What I would do if I were Rutgers/Uconn. Get away. Start your own conference with Rutgers, UConn, ECU, UCF, Temple, USF, Cincy, UMass and get someone out of the CUSA, MAC and maybe even Troy and SMississippi. I really believe that what is really hurting RU and UConn is their constant wanting to be out and in the ACC/Big 10. Either commit or flounder. It isn't sexy but it's better than this mixed up mess.

Big East basketball will be fine, not the level they were but still a very good basketball conference and get back to their true roots.

 

[sutomcat]

Even with that tv deal, I think su, pitt and WVU would have left.

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I agree. It was for $11 million per year. That is not close to enough to run a competitive BCS program.

There was talk that ESPN wanted to change the new contract with the ACC so that if the ACC added schools, the terms of the deal (i.e. money) would not change unless one of the schools was Notre Dame.

Does anyone know what happened on that front?

This is, IMHO, really important because the re-open money clause when the conference expands clause led directly to SU and Pitt getting added. If the ACC gets no money adding UConn and RU, it will never happen unless they are being added to replace schools leaving.

On a related note, if I am Notre Dame and I hear the rumors of the BE breaking up because of hopeless fundamental issues between the basketball and football schools, it has to be unsettling, as the recent articles talking about this indicate. It has to be double concerning though, to hear that Clemson and FSU might be leaving the ACC, compromising their preferred landing spot in the event of a BE explosion.

There is no question that the ACC planned on waiting as long as possible to reach terms with ESPN on a new contract with SU and Pitt in the fold. That was the case as recently as a week or two ago.

Why did things change? Could it be that the ACC worked out two deals in their negotiations with ESPN? One for the current config of teams and one with ND also in the conference? And that they shared that info with ND in the hopes of getting them to finally commit to the conference and simultaneously keeping Clemson and FSU in the fold?

I don't know what the impact on the ESPN payout to the ACC would be if ND joined the ACC, but I bet it makes the ACC competitive with the Big 12, and every other conference out there.

 

[xc84]

I agree. It was for $11 million per year. That is not close to enough to run a competitive BCS program.

There was talk that ESPN wanted to change the new contract with the ACC so that if the ACC added schools, the terms of the deal (i.e. money) would not change unless one of the schools was Notre Dame.

Does anyone know what happened on that front?

This is, IMHO, really important because the re-open money clause when the conference expands clause led directly to SU and Pitt getting added. If the ACC gets no money adding UConn and RU, it will never happen unless they are being added to replace schools leaving.

On a related note, if I am Notre Dame and I hear the rumors of the BE breaking up because of hopeless fundamental issues between the basketball and football schools, it has to be unsettling, as the recent articles talking about this indicate. It has to be double concerning though, to hear that Clemson and FSU might be leaving the ACC, compromising their preferred landing spot in the event of a BE explosion.

There is no question that the ACC planned on waiting as long as possible to reach terms with ESPN on a new contract with SU and Pitt in the fold. That was the case as recently as a week or two ago.

Why did things change? Could it be that the ACC worked out two deals in their negotiations with ESPN? One for the current config of teams and one with ND also in the conference? And that they shared that info with ND in the hopes of getting them to finally commit to the conference and simultaneously keeping Clemson and FSU in the fold?

I don't know what the impact on the ESPN payout to the ACC would be if ND joined the ACC, but I bet it makes the ACC competitive with the Big 12, and every other conference out there.

It would be crazy if there are not scenarios spelled out in the contract for the addition or subtraction of teams from the league.

 

[Moontan]

This is, IMHO, really important because the re-open money clause when the conference expands clause led directly to SU and Pitt getting added. If the ACC gets no money adding UConn and RU, it will never happen unless they are being added to replace schools leaving.

I believe the "re-open money clause" was big, but there were other questions/issues/concerns as well...

1. if the ACC loses membership, which schools would we want to invite to replace them?
2. is there any chance that those schools could end up at another conference?
3. do any of those schools strengthen any of the conference's main sports competitions significantly (at least perceived) vs. the competition?
4. does the addition of these schools result in greater revenue?
5. if so, is there a reason not to add some of these schools now?

The first items yielded a list of (4-8 ?) schools (including ND, Syracuse & Pitt, and apparently Yukon), of which ND is a wishlist item and the NBE members would be considered "low hanging fruit" (e.g. if invited they would almost assuredly accept without much issue). B1G expansion rumours involved both ACC and NBE members. Grabbing high-profile hoops members from the NBE strengthen the ACC's perception and weaken its primary opposition in the East. The "re-open money clause" was vetted with ESPN ("If the ACC were to add schools such as X, Y or Z, ...").
Once they realized that they could easily add compatible schools which would instantly enhance the conference's hoops image, as well as providing defection insurance and generating increased revenue it was an easy decision.
Like you, I suspect that the "re-open money clause" in the new contract is a bit different. Further expansion with schools not named ND will not necessarily result in greater revenue. Additionally, simply adding schools not named ND (or some other high-profile school) does not entitle the ACC to automatically renegotiate the current agreement.

 

[BlazeOrange]

(Notre Dame said it would not take part in a split.)

A. Where/when did ND say this?
B. F 'em. Let's see how they enjoy life in the A-10

Not "taking part" in a split does not preclude them from ending up joining one side or another once the dust settles. It just announces that ND will be a free agent if the conference splits and won't be involved (at least publicly) in the formation of the new conferences.

The FB and hoops-only sides can bid against each other for the Irish non-FB teams, along with any other conferences that would offer that arrangement. And they could (again) look at joining one of the major all-sports conferences.

 

[GoSU96]

If this happens, the money on the table for each half of the group shrinks significantly...,making the acc money more of a bonus.

Yep

 

[Orangello]

If this happens, the money on the table for each half of the group shrinks significantly...,making the acc money more of a bonus.

Agreed although I do not see the NBE getting anything close to the money the ACC just got even if the BB's and FB's elect to stay together. They are basically CUSA now.

 

[kingtidge]

Exactly. There is no way Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, etc. will dissolve or leave the BE. There is no where else to go and starting a new league with the same teams makes no sense $$-wise. The BE will still be a money maker for these teams.

Really?

I mean - sure, they can remain bound together as Ville, Uconn and Rutgers bolt for Football elsewhere... and maybe p/u some more B-Ball onlies in the process, but if that happens.

1. Call it something - but it ain't the BE.

2. With the football schools gone, these parochial b-ball onlies are in for a very rude awakening where $$$ are concerned... The days of suckling off the teet of f'ball schools is over... Their revenues are going to drop precipitously as they try and coalesce their version of the A10...

 

[xc84]

Really?

I mean - sure, they can remain bound together as Ville, Uconn and Rutgers bolt for Football elsewhere... and maybe p/u some more B-Ball onlies in the process, but if that happens.

1. Call it something - but it ain't the BE.

2. With the football schools gone, these parochial b-ball onlies are in for a very rude awakening where $$$ are concerned... The days of suckling off the teet of f'ball schools is over... Their revenues are going to drop precipitously as they try and coalesce their version of the A10...

Yes. Really. They will never give up the name The Big East. If the football schools leave the BE, the basketball schools will still stay in the BE. Revenues will likely drop but they will remain in the BE because it will remain their best option. The BE Brand is still the best thing they have.

 

[44PRIDE]

If the best of the Big East merge with the best of the A10, you'd have one stout basketball league that could garner some decent revenue. Obviously, not football like...but still good revenue.

 

[xc84]

If the best of the Big East merge with the best of the A10, you'd have one stout basketball league that could garner some decent revenue. Obviously, not football like...but still good revenue.

Do the non-football BE schools share in the football revenue?