Benny Williams dismissed from program

[xc84]

JT works hard but he can’t hit the side of a barn anymore.

He hit some last game. Seems like he changed his shot a bit and maybe he is just getting used to it.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I actually thought they have attempted to do this all year, especially early. I just think he lost confidence

I think he has lost confidence, too. But it took a month before we were running any motion at all in the offense. It was all Judah and JJ going one-on-one. We still barely run sets, let alone actual "plays" on offense.

 

[orangecuse]

In life, you get what you give. Benny wants to be a wonderful player and maybe some day he may be just not at Syracuse University.

 

[MikeSU02]

Mintz and Bell are the two that standout at not giving a crap a good amount of the time. And it's why I think Mintz isn't a winning player.

Mintz is odd in this respect a lot. His "giving a crap" sometimes turns to tunnel vision with his choices. He is clearly talented. In the right match ups, his attacking will be really helpful. But the issue is with the way he plays is that if the other team can just stop him (it's not like he's a supreme athlete or a dead eye shorter), he hits a wall.

The ball isn't moving as much as it needs to with him as lead guard. I dunno, he looks like he wants to be a Kyrie-type of player without the same skills, even mapping it to college level.

As it pertains to Chris Bell, he has started 52 games and has a PER of 10.5 and a TS% of 51.2% with defensive metrics that are just as atrocious. If he's getting those numbers *and* trying, that actually may be worse than if he isn't trying.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Mintz is odd in this respect a lot. His "giving a crap" sometimes turns to tunnel vision with his choices. He is clearly talented. In the right match ups, his attacking will be really helpful. But the issue is with the way he plays is that if the other team can just stop him (it's not like he's a supreme athlete or a dead eye shorter), he hits a wall.

The ball isn't moving as much as it needs to with him as lead guard. I dunno, he looks like he wants to be a Kyrie-type of player without the same skills, even mapping it to college level.

As it pertains to Chris Bell, he has started 52 games and has a PER of 10.5 and a TS% of 51.2% with defensive metrics that are just as atrocious. If he's getting those numbers *and* trying, that actually may be worse than if he isn't trying.

The lack of getting back on defense by both of those guys drive me nuts. Mintz freezes out guys too much.

Bell is Mookie Jones 2.0 just on a worse team. Somehow he is better than JJ Starling on defense which is scary in itself because I do think Starling plays hard.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Somehow he is better than JJ Starling on defense which is scary in itself because I do think Starling plays hard.

When I watch Starling it looks like he's a half-step too slow in cutting guys off and is hyper afraid of fouling. So there's zero contact or bumping, reaching for steals, etc. He's very passive. By the numbers, no one on the team fouls at a lower rate per 100 possession than Starling. By totals, he's 7th (29) on team in fouls despite playing the most minutes.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

One thing that probably contributed to Benny's behavior (and I have no inside information) is the coaching change. Red coaches the forwards so he is the one working with Benny and whenever there is any setbacks or problems Red played the good cop to JB's bad cop. Benny probably assumed once Red became HC, Red would be easier on him and no more dealing with JB, but Red has to make HC decisions now and be the bad cop and Benny couldn't adjust to it.

Not that this is an excuse but leadership changes can be tough on the existing team members for an internal hire because they got used to expecting that internal hire playing the good cop.

I hope that’s not true. That’s a grade school mentality—like taking advantage of the substitute teacher. Benny’s behavior should have been purposed toward, at the very least, two things: his own personal betterment, and furthering the team on which he played. A mature mind doesn’t need or want to go to/beyond the limit of a ‘good cop.’ What would be the point of that? See what you can get away with? Kids do that. At this age, that’s possibly a component of sociopathological narcissism. Benny may have a very, very strong career leading large numbers of people….

 

[Newhouser]

When I watch Starling it looks like he's a half-step too slow in cutting guys off and is hyper afraid of fouling. So there's zero contact or bumping, reaching for steals, etc. He's very passive. By the numbers, no one on the team fouls at a lower rate per 100 possession than Starling. By totals, he's 7th (29) on team in fouls despite playing the most minutes.

That is interesting - I often find myself noticing that I haven't heard Starling's name mentioned in minutes of game play. Passive is a good word I think.

 

[Killdozer]

Bobby Lazor is my biggest disappointment ever...edging out Chucky Gelatt

Bobby Lazor was from my hometown of Norwich. He was/is well remembered there. He really flourish once he transferred to Arizona State. Play pro ball overseas for a long time.

 

[GHLF]

I think he has lost confidence, too. But it took a month before we were running any motion at all in the offense. It was all Judah and JJ going one-on-one. We still barely run sets, let alone actual "plays" on offense.

Agreed, however essentially same offense for the last 25+ years, Guard freelance, F/C cleanup unless scripted, still typically Guard centric

 

[Eric15]

Bobby Lazor is my biggest disappointment ever...edging out Chucky Gelatt

It's nuts -- Lazor averaged 2.2 ppg and 1.8 rpg in his two years at SU and then 17.3 ppg and 8.3 rpg in his two years at Arizona State.

 

[CusefanATL]

It's nuts -- Lazor averaged 2.2 ppg and 1.8 rpg in his two years at SU and then 17.3 ppg and 8.3 rpg in his two years at Arizona State.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobby-lazor-0652109a/

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's nuts -- Lazor averaged 2.2 ppg and 1.8 rpg in his two years at SU and then 17.3 ppg and 8.3 rpg in his two years at Arizona State.

I think he had an All PAC -10 season in there too.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Bobby Lazor was from my hometown of Norwich. He was/is well remembered there. He really flourish once he transferred to Arizona State. Play pro ball overseas for a long time.

I used to be able to see some practices back then in the Carrier Dome. Bobby Lazor really improved during his time here going head to head with John Wallace in practice. Some good battles. I was looking forward to seeing him start in 96-97 after John left. Was surprised he left when it appeared to me he was ready to be our next very good forward, after the battles with John, he sure looked ready to step in. Heard he and his dad were ticked at the lack of playing time his first 2 years here - around 7 to 8 minutes a game. Left though when I thought that would definitely have changed.

 

[RF2044]

I used to be able to see some practices back then in the Carrier Dome. Bobby Lazor really improved during his time here going head to head with John Wallace in practice. Some good battles. I was looking forward to seeing him start in 96-97 after John left. Was surprised he left when it appeared to me he was ready to be our next very good forward, after the battles with John, he sure looked ready to step in. Heard he and his dad were ticked at the lack of playing time his first 2 years here - around 7 to 8 minutes a game. Left though when I thought that would definitely have changed.

I agree. As a frequent practice attendee back then when I lived in CNY, Lazor had some game. He was different from the types of PF that we usually have, but a good athlete and a good shooter.

I think he and his family were highly dissatisfied with the lack of PT he got during the 96-97 season, and decided to search for greener pastures. His play at ASU suggests that he could have been a quality contributor here, had he stayed.

 

[Killdozer]

I used to be able to see some practices back then in the Carrier Dome. Bobby Lazor really improved during his time here going head to head with John Wallace in practice. Some good battles. I was looking forward to seeing him start in 96-97 after John left. Was surprised he left when it appeared to me he was ready to be our next very good forward, after the battles with John, he sure looked ready to step in. Heard he and his dad were ticked at the lack of playing time his first 2 years here - around 7 to 8 minutes a game. Left though when I thought that would definitely have changed.

I know his family moved back to Arizona where they originally where from before the move to Norwich.

 

[kingtidge]

I know his family moved back to Arizona where they originally where from before the move to Norwich.

I wonder what brought them Norwich? Family?

 

[Brooky03]

Agreed, however essentially same offense for the last 25+ years, Guard freelance, F/C cleanup unless scripted, still typically Guard centric

We would not have had as many successful Forwards as we have in those 25 years if this were true.

 

[Killdozer]

I wonder what brought them Norwich? Family?

I believe the father worked for Proctor and Gamble in Norwich.

 

[Eric15]

I think he and his family were highly dissatisfied with the lack of PT he got during the 96-97 season, and decided to search for greener pastures. His play at ASU suggests that he could have been a quality contributor here, had he stayed.

1996-97 was actually his transfer year when he sat out one year. 1995-96 was his sophomore year at SU when he played very little for our Final Four team (a total of only 139 minutes in 21 games). Was never a meaningful part of the rotation.

100% agree with your last sentence. We really could have used him on the 1996-97 team that desperately needed another big inside with Burgan playing out of position at PF and Janulis playing out of position at SF.

 

[orangecuse]

I used to be able to see some practices back then in the Carrier Dome. Bobby Lazor really improved during his time here going head to head with John Wallace in practice. Some good battles. I was looking forward to seeing him start in 96-97 after John left. Was surprised he left when it appeared to me he was ready to be our next very good forward, after the battles with John, he sure looked ready to step in. Heard he and his dad were ticked at the lack of playing time his first 2 years here - around 7 to 8 minutes a game. Left though when I thought that would definitely have changed.

If I recall correctly, his dad, along with Glenn Sekunda's (whom transferred to Penn State), let's just say, were not to fond of JB. Sekunda's dad, I think, was a bit more vocal about it.

 

[LoveShack]

So far in this 620+ post thread besides Benny the following have been labeled as "busts" & "disapointments"

Karlton Hines
Darius Basley
Bobby Lazor
Chucky Gelett
Winfred Walton
Glenn Sekunda
Taureen Thompson

I'll add
Mark Konecny (who name literally ends in CNY)
Keith Hughes
Rodney Walker
Tony Scott
and lets even throw in for good measure:
John Karpis

Common denominator they are all the 6-8 6-9 PF type with the exception of Hines who was a 6-5 big body type. Lazor Sekunda and Hughes being the only ones who went on to do better things (on the court)

 

[OttoMets]

1996-97 was actually his transfer year when he sat out one year. 1995-96 was his sophomore year at SU when he played very little for our Final Four team (a total of only 139 minutes in 21 games). Was never a meaningful part of the rotation.

100% agree with your last sentence. We really could have used him on the 1996-97 team that desperately needed another big inside with Burgan playing out of position at PF and Janulis playing out of position at SF.

Right. Once Windred Walton DNQed, Lazor would've been well-positioned to succeed. He, Burgan, and Hill actually would've made for a nice front line, offensively at least.

And that was the fallback lineup. The initial frontcourt was Hill, Burgan, and some combination of Etan and Ovcina at the four.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Back to Benny. The one good thing about the shoulder bump is that by that time there was no on left watching the game on TV.

 

[GHLF]

We would not have had as many successful Forwards as we have in those 25 years if this were true.

I said typically, def team dependent. Our strongest teams were so much more balanced