Better career?

[djcon57]

Scoop did get a little bit farther in the tourney but not dramatically...two sweet 16s for Hart, an elite 8 and a sweet 16 for Scoop right? And Scoop played on much better teams...Hart had sooo much more on his shoulders. Not to knock Scoop I'd just go with Hart.

Same.

Jason was probably the best defender we'ev had in recent history as well.

All time leader in steals, more APG than Scoop.

It's close and I love Scoop, but Hart was an all timer that had Janulis and Allen Griffin at SG vs Andy Rautins and Dion Waiters.

(No offense to the great Allen griffin or the great Marius Janulis)

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Kris Joseph or Demetris Nichols?

Scoop Jardine or Jason Hart?

Dion Waiters or Jonny Flynn?

AirKanada
JHart
Dion

 

[pfister1]

Since Fab is as good as gone. How about:
Fab v. Forth?
Complete opposite guys. Scrappy, hard worker, character kid v. talented, academic issues.
I will take Fab, but I love the type of person that Craig is. Great kid for the program and he did get a ring.

Since the question was better career, this matchup isn't even fair.

Forth in a landslide. He was a starter on the team that won our only national championship. Also starter on another that made a Sweet 16 appearance and one that won a BET championship and cough, cough starter on a team that made an NIT Final 4 appearance. And he graduated.

Fab...ah was on a team that won a Big East Regular Season Championship,but didn't stick around long enough to play in the NCAA tournament that season. And I guess he was nominally present for an NCAA second round appearance.

 

[jdubs30]

Since Fab is as good as gone. How about:
Fab v. Forth?
Complete opposite guys. Scrappy, hard worker, character kid v. talented, academic issues.
I will take Fab, but I love the type of person that Craig is. Great kid for the program and he did get a ring.

Really?

Talent- Fab by lightyears
Better career- Forth by lightyears

That's like comparing Kueth Duany to Louie McCroskey

 

[OrangeBlood]

Really?

Talent- Fab by lightyears
Better career- Forth by lightyears

That's like comparing Kueth Duany to Louie McCroskey

Fab was the BE DPOY and made more of an impact than Craig ever did in the middle of the zone. I understand that Craig has a ring but Fab when he played as soph was better in his career.

 

[edowd26]

Dnic got to the basket just as much as Joseph and was a better ft shooter

no, and only in his senior year.

 

[jdubs30]

Fab was the BE DPOY and made more of an impact than Craig ever did in the middle of the zone. I understand that Craig has a ring but Fab when he played as soph was better in his career.

The original poster was 3 tossups. If you're comparing Fab to Forth that's comparing pure talent to a guy who accomplished a lot as an important role player, but wasn't that skilled.

Yes, I'd probably take Fab I guess, but Forth's career was infinitely better.

 

[OrangeBlood]

The original poster was 3 tossups. If you're comparing Fab to Forth that's comparing pure talent to a guy who accomplished a lot as an important role player, but wasn't that skilled.

Yes, I'd probably take Fab I guess, but Forth's career was infinitely better.

I think it is a tough question/toss up because would you rather have Forth who did everything right off the court and was average four year player or Fab that has unlimited talent and athleticism but could not get his stuff in order off the court and was only here for two years and maybe cost us a trip to New Orleans.

That is why I asked.

 

[Melancer46]

Not gonna answer for Scoop and Hart because Hart was before I really understood basketball, but I'll say KJo and Flynn. I don't think Waiters is even close to Flynn honestly. Flynn was better in pretty much every way and didn't play like absolute crap for half a season.

 

[Rossco123]

Jonny\Dion backcourt:rolling: need to play with two balls

 

[jdubs30]

I think it is a tough question/toss up because would you rather have Forth who did everything right off the court and was average four year player or Fab that has unlimited talent and athleticism but could not get his stuff in order off the court and was only here for two years and maybe cost us a trip to New Orleans.

That is why I asked.

I mean, what are we talking here? With what we know, you absolutely take Forth; but if their both coming in as freshmen you definitely take Fab (because you don't know what's gonna happen down the road).

Not gonna answer for Scoop and Hart because Hart was before I really understood basketball, but I'll say KJo and Flynn. I don't think Waiters is even close to Flynn honestly. Flynn was better in pretty much every way and didn't play like absolute crap for half a season.

you crazy

 

[Gabjon]

Ok then

Better Career

Dnic - second two years Dnic was better
Scoop- was here 4 years got deeper in tourney
Flynn - Played more his freshman year not Waiters fault

Better Player

Dnic
Jason Hart
Waiters

Better Career
Kris Jo
Scoop
Dion

Better Player
Dnic
Offense Scoop Defense Hart
Dion

Flynn's career is marred by the cough cough Dynasty year!

 

[OrangeBlood]

I mean, what are we talking here? With what we know, you absolutely take Forth; but if their both coming in as freshmen you definitely take Fab (because you don't know what's gonna happen down the road).

Agreed. Career wise Forth. Just because he won a ring, stayed all four years and was a class act.
If you threw out all that and just looked at stats. I'd still take Fabs 2 years over Craigs 4. Fab had 88 blocks this year and Craig had 36 his senior year.

 

[pfister1]

Agreed. Career wise Forth. Just because he won a ring, stayed all four years and was a class act.
If you threw out all that and just looked at stats. I'd still take Fabs 2 years over Craigs 4. Fab had 88 blocks this year and Craig had 36 his senior year.

89 blocks you're forgetting the block he put on our Final Four chances.

 

[Melancer46]

you crazy

Nearly identical shooting numbers (Flynn barely better from the field, Waiters barely better from 3 point range), significantly more points, assists, and minutes for Flynn, more rebounds for Flynn, identical steal numbers, higher FT% for Flynn, and Flynn was very good for the whole season both of his seasons instead of just playing well for 1/2 of a season in 2 years.

 

[gilardino]

kris
scoop
dion

all went to the elite 8, all had many wins, not even close

 

[Cuseman78]

Better Career
Kris Jo
Scoop
Dion

Better Player
Dnic
Offense Scoop Defense Hart
Dion

Flynn's career is marred by the cough cough Dynasty year!

I think you've got it just about right

 

[rrlbees]

I think those of you taking Scoop over Hart never really saw Hart play. Started every game his whole career (except 1 when he returned back late from Cali at Xmas break) and led the team in assists and steals all 4 years. Some of you are basing career just on wins and losses which is a team thing not an individual player thing.

 

[Gabjon]

I think those of you taking Scoop over Hart never really saw Hart play. Started every game his whole career (except 1 when he returned back late from Cali at Xmas break) and led the team in assists and steals all 4 years. Some of you are basing career just on wins and losses which is a team thing not an individual player thing.

All that is true but he had one of the top 5 worse jump shots in SU history.

 

[rrlbees]

All that is true but he had one of the top 5 worse jump shots in SU history.

So did Etan Thomas.

 

[otto123]

I think those of you taking Scoop over Hart never really saw Hart play. Started every game his whole career (except 1 when he returned back late from Cali at Xmas break) and led the team in assists and steals all 4 years. Some of you are basing career just on wins and losses which is a team thing not an individual player thing.

It's because Scoop is more recent so he will get more of the votes. I also think people are getting better career confused with team success. Like I said earlier if Hart was on some of the teams Scoop had he would have led them to the final four

 

[Gabjon]

So did Etan Thomas.

Agreed! And they both had 10 year NBA careers. That should tell you something. The NBA is always looking for people who can defend and rebound there are more guys who can score than there are NBA jobs for "scorers"

 

[Gabjon]

It's because Scoop is more recent so he will get more of the votes. I also think people are getting better career confused with team success. Like I said earlier if Hart was on some of the teams Scoop had he would have led them to the final four

I think the same could be said in reverse. Hart's team had are time scoring image Scoop throwing Etan Thomas ally-hoops. Scoop would have added 10 points to that team per game.

 

[Jake]

Interesting thread.

Depends on how you define career...if its team success, the obvious answer are the three current players.

But if you look at it as trying to classify the all time greats...I think I take the other three, with the only close debate being dion and Flynn.

C'mon people...I love scoop, but harts career dwarfs scoops. Jason is the programs all time steals leader and is arguably the best on the ball defender we've ever had. It's him or Moss. He also had a terrific senior year that included a lot of key shots. It's an interesting debate only in that scoop and Jason each were loved a loathed by the fans, but people are dismissing harts body of work as a player.

I think a lot of people forget how many games dnic won for us by going unconscious his sr year. He was a better shooter, defender and rebounder than jojo. Joseph had better teammates. Hard for me to argue that jojo had a better career-his legacy is going to be his disappearing act this march.

Dion vs Flynn is closer. Could see an argument for both, but Flynn was a lottery pick and started both years he played and was more of a determining factor in more games. Both were a coaching nightmare at points in their career.

 

[FortyFourCT]

Kris
Hart
Flynn