Beyond the Orange Glasses

[Pyle]

Dino's obviously not going anywhere and there's plenty of season left but expected a heck of alot more at this point. To be fair this entire board minus a few were convinced that Shafer needed to go. I won't argue that but we need to hold Dino to similar standards. There is plenty of time for improvement but hoping we get better is exactly that, just hoping. Until we see otherwise here is the current reality.

Current Rank Total Offense: 115

Current Rank Total Defense: 123

119 avg. Those are Gerg levels of futility.

Clemson.....This year's beating equaled the worst beating of Shafer's career and that was in year 1 of his tenure. At no point did Shafer's meathead offense fail to score a TD against the Tigers. Let that sink in. This is year 4 for Dino and the best we could muster is 2 FGs with an offensive mastermind for a coach.

Maryland? Not a top 25 team. We got our doors blown off by a mediocre team ala GT 2013. Again that was Shafer's first year as a HC anywhere. This is Dino's 8th year as a HC and 4th year here. That shouldn't happen to a program on the rise.

As for last year. The majority of the key players were in fact Shafer recruits. Not sure Shafer could have done with them what Dino did, not sure that he couldn't either. We will never know. What I do know is that we had leadership, all over the field last year. There is no leadership on this team. Shafer recruited captains, it paid off when they became Seniors. Dino has lost recruiting battles left and right over the past year after his amazing season. If we finish 6-6 or worse this year then what? The fact is if we finish below .500 this year and based on what we've seen, there isn't much reason to think that's improbable, then last year looks like a fluke season on the back of Shafer's guys.

I don't blame Dino for Devito's struggles. Devito is still young and could still be great. I do blame Dino for the complete lack of OL and size/speed on the outside. Where are the WRs? Why do we have no running game at all? Why is Devito running for his life after every snap? It's year 4.

 

[Scotch]

We won 10 games last year. We are quasi-relevant for the first time in 20 years. The Dome was full for the first time in 20 years. Things are OK.

 

[Pyle]

We won 10 games last year with Shafer's captains. We are were quasi-relevant during the off-season for the first time in 20 years. The Dome was full for the first and last time in 20 years. Things are OK.

I said look beyond the glasses. You didn't. Babers didn't get 10 wins with his own recruits. We stopped being relevant in week 2 and many questioned our relevancy after week 1. We haven't performed this poorly on both sides of the ball in a very long time.

 

[Bayside44]

I said look beyond the glasses. You didn't. Babers didn't get 10 wins with his own recruits. We stopped being relevant in week 2 and many questioned our relevancy after week 1. We haven't performed this poorly on both sides of the ball in a very long time.

Babers had his players all over the field last year. Everyone who caught the ball on either side for example.

Running 3 game stats when one game is Clemson is a bit misleading.

 

[Trueblue25]

Please do not ever compare Babers to HCSS

 

[syrBossHogg]

Why do we not give Dino credit for developing players that were recruited by Shafer

 

[Pyle]

Please do not ever compare Babers to HCSS

That's like saying don't compare Obama to Trump. They literally connect the dots between themselves so saying don't ever compare them is silly. I don't expect this to be a popular thread. Don't care. I sat back the week between MD and Clemson and didn't say a word. I reserved my H0T Takes to see if this team showed any life on Sat. We didn't. Babers doesn't get some kind of free pass for the next 8 years based on 1 10 win season that were half of the previous coaches players. I want Dino to succeed. As much as anyone else on this board. I'm tired of losing all the time. I'm also tired of combined offensive/defensive rankings in the 100s. I'm tired of games being over in the 2nd quarter.

 

[Pyle]

Why do we not give Dino credit for developing players that were recruited by Shafer

I did, I said I'm not sure that Shafer could get those same recruits to the place we were last year, also said I'm not sure he couldn't either, we will never know.

 

[TheCusian]

I said look beyond the glasses. You didn't. Babers didn't get 10 wins with his own recruits. We stopped being relevant in week 2 and many questioned our relevancy after week 1. We haven't performed this poorly on both sides of the ball in a very long time.

The own recruit argument is a bad one for a lot of reasons - chief being a lack of ten win seasons *at all* ...

 

[TheCusian]

I did, I said I'm not sure that Shafer could get those same recruits to the place we were last year, also said I'm not sure he couldn't either, we will never know.

Oh boy

 

[Pyle]

The own recruit argument is a bad one for a lot of reasons - chief being a lack of ten win seasons *at all* ...

Are you nitpicking regular season wins(9)? Or you saying that Shafer never had a 9 win season? Not sure I follow.

 

[djorange1989]

I said look beyond the glasses. You didn't. Babers didn't get 10 wins with his own recruits. We stopped being relevant in week 2 and many questioned our relevancy after week 1. We haven't performed this poorly on both sides of the ball in a very long time.

right, the players he recruited really weren't that vital to the 10 win season. except for the freshman who led the country in interceptions, the kicker who was an All American, the bookend defensive linemen who each had 10 sacks, the backup QB who won us two games and basically got the season back on track, our first, third and fourth leading receivers in terms of receptions, the high majority of our made over and much more athletic secondary. Oh and the two guys who accounted for 3 of our 4 TDs in our bowl game, their first game after sitting out all season.

 

[djorange1989]

Please do not ever compare Babers to HCSS

oh, it's ok to compare them:

Babers is a really good coach, Shafer is a dumpster fire of a coach.

see, there you go.

 

[Pyle]

oh, it's ok to compare them:

Babers is a really good coach, Shafer is a dumpster fire of a coach.

see, there you go.

119 combined team ranking in year 4. What was Shafer's combined team ranking at ANY point during his last year? Don't give me this only 3 game crap. We have played one team below us, one team that is considered a peer, and a juggernaught. That's a pretty even slate.

 

[djorange1989]

119 combined team ranking in year 4. What was Shafer's combined team ranking at ANY point during his last year? Don't give me this only 3 game crap. We have played one team below us, one team that is considered a peer, and a juggernaught. That's a pretty even slate.

I don't give a sh** what Shafer's combined team rankings were, he sucked. we are off to a bad start this year, period. You don't want to hear the 3 game "crap" because it is correct and it calls out your stupid initial post. If you don't want to hear about 3 game "crap" then I guess the 2015 Syracuse football team that went 3-0 must have done really well in the college football playoff

 

[Pyle]

right, the players he recruited really weren't that vital to the 10 win season. except for the freshman who led the country in interceptions, the kicker who was an All American, the bookend defensive linemen who each had 10 sacks, the backup QB who won us two games and basically got the season back on track, our first, third and fourth leading receivers in terms of receptions, the high majority of our made over and much more athletic secondary. Oh and the two guys who accounted for 3 of our 4 TDs in our bowl game, their first game after sitting out all season.

I should have looked deeper and I will concede this point about the recruits. I will say whatever special blend of spices he cooked up last year is absolutely incomplete without Custis, Dungey, Strickland, most of the OL, Pierce(yes I know he was a Dino recruit, I'm conceding remember), etc. Why is that? What is lacking in our recruiting that as soon as Shafer's guys leave the building our team looks like it just doesn't care anymore.

 

[djorange1989]

I should have looked deeper and I will concede this point about the recruits. I will say whatever special blend of spices he cooked up last year is absolutely incomplete without Custis, Dungey, Strickland, most of the OL, Pierce(yes I know he was a Dino recruit, I'm conceding remember), etc. Why is that? What is lacking in our recruiting that as soon as Shafer's guys leave the building our team looks like it just doesn't care anymore.

well, if there is a lack of caring (not sure if i buy that, but I will play along) then that likely means there is a senior leadership void. we still have seniors who are Shafer guys and can help in that area (Moe, Frederick, Cordy etc)

 

[Pyle]

I don't give a sh** what Shafer's combined team rankings were, he sucked. we are off to a bad start this year, period. You don't want to hear the 3 game "crap" because it is correct and it calls out your stupid initial post. If you don't want to hear about 3 game "crap" then I guess the 2015 Syracuse football team that went 3-0 must have done really well in the college football playoff

It's not correct. We didn't play 3 top 10 teams. I'm not happy and I get my posts are not popular right now but I'm still listening and being open to others points. Ignore the team rankings if you want, when we struggle on Sat I'll reserve the I told you so's.

 

[NineOneSeven]

It's not correct. We didn't play 3 top 10 teams. I'm not happy and I get my posts are not popular right now but I'm still listening and being open to others points. Ignore the team rankings if you want, when we struggle on Sat I'll reserve the I told you so's.

Regardless of what happens this Saturday I am bookmarking this. Could be some real fun post game.

 

[Hicks Street]

Syracuse has certainly been disappointing this year. However, it might be instructive to compare Babers's start at Syracuse to that of Dick MacPherson. Both were brought on to undertake the rebuilding of the program.

When MacPherson arrived, Syracuse had state of the art facilities and, for the time, an almost unlimited budget. Nevertheless, MacPherson's first four years produced the following records: 1981 was 4-6-1, 1982 was 2-9, 1983 was 6-5, and 1984 was 6-5. Syracuse did not have its breakthrough under MacPherson until the 11-0-1 record in 1987.

If Babers is as good a coach as analysts claim that he is, I suspect that the team will improve during the course of the year. As stands to reason, well-coached teams that avoid injury disasters show significant growth and development during a season. From my perspective it is too early to draw conclusions about this season and certainly too early to speculate about Babers's likely success during his tenure as coach.

 

[djorange1989]

It's not correct. We didn't play 3 top 10 teams. I'm not happy and I get my posts are not popular right now but I'm still listening and being open to others points. Ignore the team rankings if you want, when we struggle on Sat I'll reserve the I told you so's.

well, that's sporting of you, sounds like you are hoping we do struggle. No one on here is saying everything is great this year, things are awesome. the team has played terribly, and we will see what happens. the point is that Babers has done 1000X more for this program in his first 3 years than Shafer and shouldn't be compared to that meathead because we are off to a bad start this year.

 

[AAM62]

119 combined team ranking in year 4. What was Shafer's combined team ranking at ANY point during his last year? Don't give me this only 3 game crap. We have played one team below us, one team that is considered a peer, and a juggernaught. That's a pretty even slate.

hey chief, i bet the 118 teams ranked ahead of cuse played a much softer 3 game schedule than cuse. Maryland was really just a blip just like their loss to Temple (they really shot themselves in the foot). i bet your beloved rankings normalize as we get our center back and the offense gells more.

 

[007]

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to see how the entire season plays out before you trash DB and his system?

Are you a season ticket holder or have you been to many games the last 4-6 years? The reason I ask is because the difference between the SS era and the DB era is palpable across the board. To my eye, it's not even close.

 

[Chip]

Was a similar analysis performed last year? Can't recall.

 

[Cuse Town]

Really?


Do I even need to get going on this?

Shafer's last game with Dungey at the helm was a 41-17 a$$ kicking on the road at Louisville. I think I rest my case with that. Teams get blown out. Does anyone here remember the absolute domination by Florida State when they visited a ranked Clemson team in 2013 IN death valley? Absolute obliteration, 51-14.

Need I bring up the 55-24 beating of Ohio State by Iowa?

Make no mistake, I'm not looking at things with "orange colored glasses" (whatever that means). This team has its work cut out for them. But to sit here and lambast Dino over the Maryland loss and say we "aren't holding him to the same standards as Shafer!" is absolutely ignorant. We are three games into a season where SU faced it's toughest 3 game stretch to start a season in at least 5 years. People forget, these are 18-21 year old kids who have a ton on their plate. Mix ups like Maryland are going to happen, especially on a team that doesn't have five star blue chip recruits and 170 assistant coaches like Clemson. Do I think they were looking ahead to Clemson when they played Maryland? Yes. Is that an excuse for their play? No. But this is a long season, and Syracuse has already faced probably 2 of its 3 toughest opponents. Dino has a track record of bouncing back. See 2016, loss to Louisville and then win against Virginia Tech, and 2017 loss to Midd Tenn and then the victory over Clemson.

After year 3 Scott Shafer was 4-8, Dino was 10-3. We'll talk about this at the end of the season.