Beyond the Orange Glasses

[TheCusian]

Team sucks right now. They look unfocused. University is providing Babers with advantages no coach before him ever had. Right now, he's part of the problem. He spews platitudes and coach-speak BS as well as anybody. It's a new season. He needs to do better. (No, his seat is not even remotely warm, nor should it be).

This is a giant pile of bs. For Maryland, sure - the D looked rough. They look like they have a young OL and QB. That’s it. The whole deal.

Also, I think Dino is more honest with the media and with the fans that most give him credit for.

 

[skurey]

It’s a full on attack because he was comparing the 1-2 start to Shafer’s entire garbage resume. Questioning is fine, hyperbole will get a deserved kick in the arse

I agree with OP that there is a lot to question about the Dino era.

I do not agree with trying to use that to paint FHCSS as some genius.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Reminds me when people were saying that Marrone was winning with GROB's recruits, yeah I get it. Didn't take long to figure out who was the better coach overall. People need to weather the storm a bit better OVERALL. I get being pissed at last two games, they have been bad. Doesn't mean we need to start questioning Dino's value here. A couple of bad games should not leave people questioning if Dino is a good coach or the long term answer. Let's see where we wind up. Fragile fan base I get it but drawing conclusions and comparisons between Dino and Shafer is just crazy.

I still say that if Dino can't get us back 100% nobody will

 

[Trueblue25]

GRob didn't plummet our program, Nancy Cantor did.

Exhibit 1A: Cantor rescinding GRob's scholarship offer to Colt Brennan

Colt, We Never Got The Chance To Know Ye

OK, the guy did something very wrong and very stupid on the night of Jan. 28, 2004, when -- uninvited, and in a drunken state -- he entered the dorm room of a female student at the University of Colorado...

www.syracuse.com

Lets not even get started on Queen Cantor. G Rob absolutely brought our program to new depths though man, we lost to Akron.

 

[Trueblue25]

I’m happy with a bowl too, i didn’t expect a miracle season this year. Two bowl years in a row and I’ll be ecstatic.

I feel like recruiting has gotta “break” for
us at some point. We’re doing all the right things. But massive changes don’t happen instantly. Stick to the plan and it’ll work out.

Just win. Recruits want to win and be drafted. We’ll have some draft picks this year and next.

 

[PAcuse]

Wins fix these stupid threads.
I need to be better and just ignore them after loses but I just can't.
People that post these are never happy and if we go on to win 9 they will make a few posts about the next big job Dino is going to get and we are doomed.
This happens every damn year...

 

[TheCusian]

If you lose games, you’ll be open to criticism and that’s the nature of the business. Dino hasn’t done everything right and this job presents some unique challenges inherently. I think the tendency after a ten win season is to see ourselves as a perineal top 25 team and a return to the glory of the Mac days.

But it’s more 3 steps forward, 2 back at Syracuse. And as Wildhack and Dino chip away at some of the disadvantages (private charter for recruiting, more recruiting staff, dome renovations, etc) the gains should be more frequent. It’s just going to be slower than we like.

Look at Wake last year. Similarly, new starters on OL, young QB - and pretty big internal expectations that they failed to meet. But Clawson is still a pretty good coach (hurt to say that).

Dino can coach. We’ve gotten a surprise win or a 10 win season each of his first three. Roads busier than we wanted, but I’m patient.

 

[alphaorange]

The funny thing is, if we win enough to get into a bowl and then do well in it, everyone will say we are back. Except for these guys who will say the bowl wasn't big enough or they should have won more games, or the combined "rating" wasn't high enough, or they can't get the real recruits, etc. These posters come here and post under the guise of reasonably questioning (which is fine), when in reality they are spewing hyperbolized negativity which is just unable to be supported at this time. I feel the same about them as I do cockroaches...always scurrying around until the lights come on, then they disappear.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

This is a giant pile of bs. For Maryland, sure - the D looked rough. They look like they have a young OL and QB. That’s it. The whole deal.

Also, I think Dino is more honest with the media and with the fans that most give him credit for.

I didnt say he is incapable of righting the ship, or that he is not a good coach. I also think you have proven to have no objectivity and have proudly proclaimed that you will not take off your orange-colored lenses (which i admire and would not expect you to change).

At its most basic, if you are going to give him credit for the wins (which he literally received in the form of a fat extension), he needs to take responsibility for the losses too. The offense, beyond the offensive line, lacks polish. Lots of missed assignments, dropped passes, not head-sy plays, etc. The play calling has been bland and reactionary. The defense has incredible talent at the ends and the secondary, but they are underperforming at this point. These systems have been in place for four years now. Stop with the Tommy is young stuff. He's been receiving individualized coaching the better part of his athletic life, played for an elite high school program, was hand-picked to be the QB of the future, and got significant game experience last season (WMU, FSU, UNC, Notre Dame). The o-line features two three year starters, and a grad-transfer. The defense has experience all over the field. The regression has been startling.

Dino's savy. I think he knows how to motivate both his players and the fans. But he also actively works to manage expectations. I think he is an amazing big-picture/concept guy (e.g., strength and conditioning, "Ohana," etc.). Outside of the first Clemson win, he's struggled with some of the micro things. His systems are intended to overcome such deficiencies.

He can and needs to do better. They play a WMU team that returns a good QB, a decent running back, and a WR who torched us last year. This should be a good barometer.

 

[PhatOrange]

I said look beyond the glasses. You didn't. Babers didn't get 10 wins with his own recruits. We stopped being relevant in week 2 and many questioned our relevancy after week 1. We haven't performed this poorly on both sides of the ball in a very long time.

Why do we have to take off our glasses? the 10 win turnaround was magnificent, echoed by everyone around the country. It's not just wins and losses either. It's overall S&C and program management; top notch.

The ones who needed to look beyond the glasses were the ones predicting another 10 win season without really weighing what we lost and seeing the youth at key positions or the depth at others. You're probably in this group.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

If you lose games, you’ll be open to criticism and that’s the nature of the business. Dino hasn’t done everything right and this job presents some unique challenges inherently. I think the tendency after a ten win season is to see ourselves as a perineal top 25 team and a return to the glory of the Mac days.

But it’s more 3 steps forward, 2 back at Syracuse. And as Wildhack and Dino chip away at some of the disadvantages (private charter for recruiting, more recruiting staff, dome renovations, etc) the gains should be more frequent. It’s just going to be slower than we like.

Look at Wake last year. Similarly, new starters on OL, young QB - and pretty big internal expectations that they failed to meet. But Clawson is still a pretty good coach (hurt to say that).

Dino can coach. We’ve gotten a surprise win or a 10 win season each of his first three. Roads busier than we wanted, but I’m patient.

I agree. But this also brushes past the main focus of the original post - through 3 games, we have not looked/been good. I am frankly surprised that more people haven't re-calibrated expectations. That's not to say we are going to bad, but anticipating 9 wins at this point seems unrealistic. I look forwarded to seeing where we are in January, and that's ultimately what I will judge the team and Dino by, but we can also look at a subset and go, "this has'nt been good so far."

 

[Newhouser]

That’ll happen when you win the camping world bowl in year 3, return the program to the top 25, sell out a game and represent our program the way Dino’s done.

He’s earned our trust imo, at least enough trust to buy him a chance to straighten things out after a 1-2 start. Im less concerned about the offense and defense rankings. We started off on a two game road trip and came back to the dome vs the number 1 team in the nation. It’ll happen.

Agree that he has earned some trust and a long leash, but the defensiveness that arises when anyone questions our progress or future is a bit crazy.

 

[TheCusian]

I agree. But this also brushes past the main focus of the original post - through 3 games, we have not looked/been good. I am frankly surprised that more people haven't re-calibrated expectations. That's not to say we are going to bad, but anticipating 9 wins at this point seems unrealistic. I look forwarded to seeing where we are in January, and that's ultimately what I will judge the team and Dino by, but we can also look at a subset and go, "this has'nt been good so far."

It’s pretty simple. You look at proven commodities vs unproven and then look at the rest of the schedule.

Yes, we’ve looked bad in our first 3. The not disputed. But it does not mean there’s a systemic issue with the HC, offensive or defensive system, philosophy, etc.

I wear orange colored glasses looking towards the future, but I think you *must* take them off when looking at what actually happened. And in this case, the OP was suggesting that we’re looking backwards with orange colored glasses. I am not. What Dino has built is real. A three game slow start with a rebuilt OL and a QB finding his way - against 2 good opponents (1 being the best team in all of CFB) - is entirely justifiable.

This weekend and the rest of the season will be important in figuring out where we are at.

 

[TheCusian]

Agree that he has earned some trust and a long leash, but the defensiveness that arises when anyone questions our progress or future is a bit crazy.

A bit “Strawman-ish” for me. People are at varying levels of trust in Dino. It’s natural for there to be some wobbliness. I just think the OP is way way off.

 

[NKR1978]

we're going to end the season 9-4 or 10-3 and this same poster will start a Dino to UCLA thread...

Or he won't be posting because he wont have anything to complain about.

 

[longislandcuse]

Or he won't be posting because he wont have anything to complain about.

He can always complain about recruiting or the fact we can’t lock down a legit QB recruit for an explosive offense that lacks any explosiveness.

(Snark aside)

I think Dino is a good coach and a great leader of men. I want nothing more than for him to represent our school for the rest of his career.

We should all have a wait and see approach over the course of this season, but I’ll just say this...

The criticism on this board is nothing compared to what he’d see if we were a southeastern football school. He is getting a pass from many due to how bad we’ve been and because college football doesn’t coarse through the veins of everyone in CNY.

 

[ForeverOrange]

I always felt we would take a step back this year, but that Dino would still get us to a bowl, and that we would see gradual improvements throughout the season. I still believe that. Taking the Clemson game out of the equation, my only disappointment was the Maryland game. There were plenty of moments to look at and say "what is this?". It gave me the What loss feelings from back when we had Mcnabb, especially after seeing them go to temple and look like hot garbage. However, I still believe we have a really good coach.

 

[Trueblue25]

Agree that he has earned some trust and a long leash, but the defensiveness that arises when anyone questions our progress or future is a bit crazy.

He’s not above questioning and criticism, he is above comparisons to HCSS.

 

[NKR1978]

He can always complain about recruiting or the fact we can’t lock down a legit QB recruit for an explosive offense that lacks any explosiveness.

(Snark aside)

I think Dino is a good coach and a great leader of men. I want nothing more than for him to represent our school for the rest of his career.

We should all have a wait and see approach over the course of this season, but I’ll just say this...

The criticism on this board is nothing compared to what he’d see if we were a southeastern football school. He is getting a pass from many due to how bad we’ve been and because college football doesn’t coarse through the veins of everyone in CNY.

I've readjusted my hope for the season and I've made peace with that. Progress isn't a straight line. Lots of things lined up last year and that may not happen this year.

The recruiting issues are legit, though I for a program like us, it probably is a 5 or 6 year project or more to get where we want to be.

Criticism is fine...comparing to Robinson or Shafer is comical.

 

[OttoMets]

I didnt say he is incapable of righting the ship, or that he is not a good coach. I also think you have proven to have no objectivity and have proudly proclaimed that you will not take off your orange-colored lenses (which i admire and would not expect you to change).

At its most basic, if you are going to give him credit for the wins (which he literally received in the form of a fat extension), he needs to take responsibility for the losses too. ...

This is fair.

"We didn't have film on that" isn't the reason anyone's looking for from the top guy with the big salary and reputed carte blanche to do what he wants with the football program.

 

[FloridaFan]

Hottake: I kinda liked HCSS

 

[OrangePA]

He was absolutely a meathead

He helped revive a dead program along with Marrone - he helped us win three bowl games.

He was left with a roster that lacked talent - and a real problem at QB.

And he had terrible injury luck with the QBs he had.

It would be fair to observe that he was not cut out to be a HC or at least was not prepared for the job when he was hired by Gross.

But he is a very solid football coach and hardly merits the BS name calling.

Sorry, we just see things differently.

 

[OrangePA]

I liked Scott Shafer a lot, but I have to admit, that Villanova game was really bad moment.

The Wildcats lost the game on a missed 22 yard FG, and basically ran us off the field.

I was almost rooting for them by the end of the game.

 

[TheCusian]

He helped revive a dead program along with Marrone - he helped us win three bowl games.

He was left with a roster that lacked talent - and a real problem at QB.

And he had terrible injury luck with the QBs he had.

It would be fair to observe that he was not cut out to be a HC or at least was not prepared for the job when he was hired by Gross.

But he is a very solid football coach and hardly merits the BS name calling.

Sorry, we just see things differently.

The term "meathead" has a negative connotation here, but I don't think it's BS to apply the term to SS's philosophy at all. The guy was if nothing else - completely in love with his defensive mentality. To a fault.

He's a DC who needs an offensive minded HC to balance out his meatheadedness.

 

[OttoMets]

He helped revive a dead program along with Marrone - he helped us win three bowl games.

He was left with a roster that lacked talent - and a real problem at QB.

And he had terrible injury luck with the QBs he had.

It would be fair to observe that he was not cut out to be a HC or at least was not prepared for the job when he was hired by Gross.

But he is a very solid football coach and hardly merits the BS name calling.

Sorry, we just see things differently.

"He was left with a roster that lacked talent - and a real problem at QB." That's his job, to maximize the talent he's got. Instead he turned Jerome Smith and Prince Tyson Gulley's skills over to George McDonald, turned Sean Hickey and Rob Trudo over to that inept line coach after Perles couldn't stand it and left. Shafer did worse with Marrone's players than Marrone did, because he wasn't cut out to be a winning head coach (which you concede).

And here's a counterfactual hot take: I think Charlie Loeb, surrounded by that returning talent, would've won at least 8 games for Marrone as his expected starter in 2013. But again, instead of going what was working and coaching to his players' strengths, Shafer chose a different path and did worse with them.

Regarding injury luck with QBs, arguably he had a stroke of good luck: Terrell Hunt getting hurt allowed Shafer to start the better quarterback in Eric Dungey without any of the ramifications of benching a senior.

Anyway, meathead isn't intended to be personal, I hope. In football terms, the man's conduct and words fit that descriptor perfectly.