Big East might be looking at a Grant of Rights...

[HtownOrange]

Ok, thank you -- I'm familiar with the concepts but my figures were just estimates, so I appreciate you filling in a few blanks.

Even with your figures, however, if UConn makes 8M for 3d tier (I underestimated this), they will still have a choice to make if a new BE deal is offered at ... 15 million or greater, even with a GOR.

We don't know what the offer will be, but it's likely to be less than the ACC's deal of 17M per school for 1st and 2nd tier rights, with no GOR. That leaves 3d tier rights available, and for a school like SU, this could be lucrative. In the BE, I think our 3d tier income came mostly from TW .. in the ACC, the 3d tier provider will probably be different .. (Raycom?).

At any rate, a GOR offer in the BE won't necessarily send schools fleeing to other leagues -- unless (as before) ND becomes the proverbial wrench in the works. If you remember a couple of years ago it was ND that turned down ESPN's offer (reportedly 1.2B) causing SU and Pitt to baulk. It seemed like ND used a "veto" to say no -- suggesting a voting system under which any member school can scuttle a deal. If this is still true, it makes league consensus a bit harder to achieve, as Jake is suggesting.

Agreed, a GOR will not send schools running.

 

[All4SU]

Could there be a separate part of the agreement that specifically caters to ND? Almost a, your all in this for the long haul whether you like it or not; except ND?

Yes, if ND decides to leave, all of the BE teams have to pay ND.

 

[Arizona Knight]

We will see how ugly things get. If ESPN offers $10 million a year with no GOR while NBC offers $15 million but GOR, then we might see some internal fighting.

It's not just about the money . Don't get me wrong, the money part will be very important, but exposure will be key also. If NBC wants to run Big East Football from noon EST until prime time on the Left Coast, with ND sandwitched in the middle, that would be an enormous positive for any Big East school.

FWIW, the Rutgers board is split on the GOR but in my opinion, if we are offered anything north of 15MM, we sign. The downside risk would be negligible. At 15MM a team, NBC won't be throwing Big East games on some internet site so we can assume network TV exposure. In addition, if another conference (or ESPN) had their eye on Rutgers or any other Big East team in the near future, I'm sure a call would be made prior to a deal with NBC being struck.

I don't see a huge downside to signing the GOR, even for 10 years.

 

[kingottoiii]

It's not just about the money . Don't get me wrong, the money part will be very important, but exposure will be key also. If NBC wants to run Big East Football from noon EST until prime time on the Left Coast, with ND sandwitched in the middle, that would be an enormous positive for any Big East school.

NBC will be less exposure than being on ESPN IMO. Lets be honest NBC isn't showing those games. They will be on NBC Sports. That isn't the same as being on ESPN or ESPN2. It is like playing on ESPNU. The NNBE likely will get a game of the week on NBC, and that's it. Then you have the CFB pre and post game shows that everyone watches on ESPN. Guess who won't get much air time on those?

 

[texascpa]

I assume Rutgers is taking the Texas Longhorn approach. If we go, the league dies with our exit, so therefore signing the GOR is meaningless.

You know this is being typed right now on one of their boards.

Actually they're still talking about expected invite into the SEC.

 

[Arizona Knight]

NBC will be less exposure than being on ESPN IMO. Lets be honest NBC isn't showing those games. They will be on NBC Sports. That isn't the same as being on ESPN or ESPN2. It is like playing on ESPNU. The NNBE likely will get a game of the week on NBC, and that's it. Then you have the CFB pre and post game shows that everyone watches on ESPN. Guess who won't get much air time on those?

As previously stated, at north of 15mm per team, per year, I'm assuming(perhaps poorly) we wind up on the network and not NBC Sports. That would all be answered in negotiations.

As for giving up all that airtime on ESPN, the SEC gets all
of it anyway.

 

[kingottoiii]

As previously stated, at north of 15mm per team, per year, I'm assuming(perhaps poorly) we wind up on the network and not NBC Sports. That would all be answered in negotiations.

As for giving up all that airtime on ESPN, the SEC gets all
of it anyway.

I think that assumption is just internet folklore. If there was value in having games at 12, 3:30, 7, and 10:30 then why do CBS and ABC not do it? Why did ESPN not have more games on at 10:30? Why did Vs not try the NNBE strategy?

ABC noon games last year: 5 of 13 weeks
CBS noon games last year: 2 of 13 weeks
ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU late starts last year: 10 of 13 weeks
Vs late starts last year: 1 of 13 weeks

If there is value in it, then why has no one else been doing it? Why were ABC and CBS not putting on more noon games? Why was ESPN, with 3 networks, not scheduling more late night games? Why was Vs not using the MWC for West Coast PT games? It would make no sense for the above to be true, but NBC to see value and schedule 3 to 4 NNBE games a week. I can see them doing on NBC SN but not NBC itself.

Also most of ND's home games are 3:30 starts. NBC is not going to have a NNBE game potentially run into the ND game. They rather have a pregame show than a game in that case. So NBC nooners will be out of the question for 4 to 5 weeks a year. Then you have the night games. ND will probably get 2 of those on NBC a year. The rest of the weeks are open but is NBC really going to put a NNBE game on in PT? There won't be many games worthy of that time slot. There will be some but not enough to have one every week.

I think the idea of having NNBE games all get onto NBC is a fairy tale creating on the internets by NNBE fans.

 

[qdawgg]

Kingotto - there is no way your implying that a Rutgers v. UConn game wouldn't make primetime t.v. on NBC. Everyone would tune in to watch the USC of the east and USC of canada play each other to a 7 - 13 score.

 

[TexanMark]

Would love it if it happened. Think Louisville is a great program. Really like playing them in both hoops and football.

Louisville would also give us another heavyweight in Basketball

Duke vs UNC
Cuse vs UL

That is compelling.

You bring Louisville in FB and suddenly we have another program that is capable of drawing 60-70k. Bring them in and tell them they have 10 years to meet certain academic goals. They used to be a private university...they can work toward being more selective. The ACC label on their school would help bring them up academically.

 

[reedny]

Louisville would also give us another heavyweight in Basketball

Duke vs UNC
Cuse vs UL

That is compelling.

You bring Louisville in FB and suddenly we have another program that is capable of drawing 60-70k. Bring them in and tell them they have 10 years to meet certain academic goals. They used to be a private university...they can work toward being more selective. The ACC label on their school would help bring them up academically.

They have solid FB and BB programs and a big fan-base. But asking 'fried chicken U' to adopt meaningful academic standards within 10 years is a stretch. This is one of the reasons why the ACC hasn't been knocking on their door.

 

[arbitragegls]

Interesting comments...here is a few other points you should know:

• contracts can be broken including the GOR--its a negotiating piece
• Notre Dame is not going to sign it nor is Louisville
• Big 12 GOR extension has not yet been signed--Texas and Okla waiting to determine whether conference is expanding...is FSU leaving the ACC?
• NBC is going large BE TV contract...think $9-$12 million per team--that is still a monstrous jump from where the conference has been...Notre Dame may help with this negotiation but is looking at $20-$25/year on own--one reason for negotiations going so slow with ACC

Apparently, according to my source, the ACC/Notre Dame negotiations have proceeded a fair way down the road--proudly the ACC is holding to its points as is Notre Dame...note articles ESPN keeps throwing out on Notre Dame--nearly all NEGATIVE! ESPN can lose the BE contract but cannot let the ACC get hurt!!! Also note silence on Orange Bowl tie in with Notre Dame--cannot tie in necessarily with team that is playing 4-6 conference games a year...may lead to duplication for Orange Bowl teams that already played (working thru this gambit)

This will all work out but not nearly as quickly as previously thought.

 

[kingottoiii]

It would be funny if NBC required a GOR for FB but not BBall. The BBall teams aren't going anywhere and are getting paid small change. So there really isn't a need for one. Which could cause a nice lil fight at BE meetings. BTW if NBC is serious about looking into the BE wouldn't this hurt ND's pocket? I am sure NBC has a budget. Can they really afford a nice BE contract and give ND all the money they want?

 

[reedny]

It would be funny if NBC required a GOR for FB but not BBall. The BBall teams aren't going anywhere and are getting paid small change. So there really isn't a need for one. Which could cause a nice lil fight at BE meetings. BTW if NBC is serious about looking into the BE wouldn't this hurt ND's pocket? I am sure NBC has a budget. Can they really afford a nice BE contract and give ND all the money they want?

This is exactly why ND's days at the trough are numbered. Their record under Kelly isn't horrible (I think they went 8-5 the last 2 seasons). But sooner or later NBC is going to figure out that neither ND's bloated contract nor its mysterious seat at the BCS table is justified.

 

[Jake]

Just curious, but if NBC gets the big east contract What happens to big east hoops? Little Monday on Versus?

 

[TexanMark]

Just curious, but if NBC gets the big east contract What happens to big east hoops? Little Monday on Versus?

I heard the ACC is changing their name to the BACC...makes you go hmmm

 

[HtownOrange]

Just curious, but if NBC gets the big east contract What happens to big east hoops? Little Monday on Versus?

I suspect that ESPN will bid hard enough to get a piece of the Big East hoops. They cannot afford to dismiss the northeast in hoops, with over 1/4 of the TV audience in the northeast, dropping the Big East entirely in hoops would be a disaster for ESPN. Syracuse, Boston College and Pitt do not carry that much influence in the very populous northeast. ESPN may even bargain for a taken Big East football game each week to ensure a piece of the hoops action. I think that NBC takes the bulk of the inventory in each sport (and maybe some others). In short, the Big East ends up with an hybrid deal like the SEC, Bevo 12, B1G and PAC 12. Only the ACC is left with an exclusive deal. Just my guess based on the conditions at hand.

ESPN has painted themselves into a corner with the ACC in that they have to ensure a good product (not letting teams leave for other conferences) or pay a premium for 2nd/3rd rate goods.

 

[Moontan]

Just curious, but if NBC gets the big east contract What happens to big east hoops? Little Monday on Versus?

Some high profile games on Saturday/Sunday afternoon on the Peacock, the rest on the Pigeon (NBC Sports, nee, Versus).

 

[Arizona Knight]

I think that assumption is just internet folklore. If there was value in having games at 12, 3:30, 7, and 10:30 then why do CBS and ABC not do it? Why did ESPN not have more games on at 10:30? Why did Vs not try the NNBE strategy?

ABC noon games last year: 5 of 13 weeks
CBS noon games last year: 2 of 13 weeks
ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU late starts last year: 10 of 13 weeks
Vs late starts last year: 1 of 13 weeks

If there is value in it, then why has no one else been doing it? Why were ABC and CBS not putting on more noon games? Why was ESPN, with 3 networks, not scheduling more late night games? Why was Vs not using the MWC for West Coast PT games? It would make no sense for the above to be true, but NBC to see value and schedule 3 to 4 NNBE games a week. I can see them doing on NBC SN but not NBC itself.

Also most of ND's home games are 3:30 starts. NBC is not going to have a NNBE game potentially run into the ND game. They rather have a pregame show than a game in that case. So NBC nooners will be out of the question for 4 to 5 weeks a year. Then you have the night games. ND will probably get 2 of those on NBC a year. The rest of the weeks are open but is NBC really going to put a NNBE game on in PT? There won't be many games worthy of that time slot. There will be some but not enough to have one every week.

I think the idea of having NNBE games all get onto NBC is a fairy tale creating on the internets by NNBE fans.

Good points, kingotto.

 

[ImperialOrange]

This is exactly why ND's days at the trough are numbered. Their record under Kelly isn't horrible (I think they went 8-5 the last 2 seasons). But sooner or later NBC is going to figure out that neither ND's bloated contract nor its mysterious seat at the BCS table is justified.

Not sure NBC cares in the least what Notre Dame's record is. People watch them regardless.

 

[Moontan]

Not sure NBC cares in the least what Notre Dame's record is. People watch them regardless.

Correct. As long as they continue to meet their revenue targets they'll continue showing ND games.

It's a simple business decision (for the most part).

 

[reedny]

Not sure NBC cares in the least what Notre Dame's record is. People watch them regardless.

Hence the separate, sweetheart contract. What the author is saying, however, along with many fans and BE officials, is that maybe ND's days at the trough are numbered. In these days of conference realignment and mega deals, how long can ND presume to set the rules for everyone else. Sooner or later, they're going to need a conference (BE?)... and when they do, the revenue and TV compromises are going to have to be made.

 

[Moontan]

how long can ND presume to set the rules for everyone else. Sooner or later, they're going to need a conference (BE?)... and when they do, the revenue and TV compromises are going to have to be made.

They don't set the rules, they're playing by them. As long as there's a TV deal that pays them more than they'd get through a conference TV deal why would they join a conference for football?

If/when NBC no longer profits from the deal then it'll end. ND will attempt to get another network to offer something similar. Only when that is no longer an option or the football playoff requires conference membership, then, and only then, will ND join a conference for football.

 

[Stern]

If the Big East goes to NBC it will be the final death nail in the coffin of this god awful conference. Seriously, people KNOW to go to ESPN for games. People KNOW what channel ESPN is on their cable provider. No fans are going to hunt out and find Big East football (or basketball) games on NBC Sports channel. It just ain't gonna happen with that group of bad schools. The ratings will be below bad and they will get less national coverage than they get now.

Honestly what the Big East should do is go completely outside the box when it comes to football. They already messed up with this adding west coast teams to the conference so time to make chicken salad out of chicken s#it. This year you got NFL Games every Thursday. And on Saturday's the Big East teams get lost int he shuffle of actual "GOOD" college football. So, the Big East should go to ESPN and say we want either Friday or Wednesday. Go totally outside the box and the Big East will play EVERY conference game on that day. So lets say its Friday Night, ESPN gives the Big East a double header all year. A 7pm start with a game at an East Coast venue (ie UCONN, L'ville, Rutgers, USF..etc) then a 10pm game from a West Coast venue (Boise, San Diego, SMU, Houston I will consider the Texas schools west coast). Instead of being lost in the shuffle the Big East should just take a night and "OWN" that night! Play every conference game that night, so during the games you can cut in with highlights from other Big East action being played at that time. Just pick a night (outside the traditional Saturday/Thursday) and OWN that night. So if a guy at home wants to watch football that night they are FORCED to watch Big East football.

It's not great that they have to do this. It's not ideal. It's not perfect. But its better than the situation they got now which is no identity and just lost in the shuffle. Going to NBC is death. Stay on ESPN at all costs and be forward thinking is the way to go.

 

[BlazeOrange]

Not sure how you would schedule a practice week based on an all-Wednesday schedule. Thursday/Friday would be return from the road and recovery days, then you have the weekend, leaving only have Monday to implement your game plan (and Tuesday for home games). Home teams would have an enormous preparation advantage unless you practice on the weekends (if its even allowed).

Not to mention the impact on academics of having a gameday and one or two travel days (someone is flying across country each week in the Sun Beast) each week during the semester.

 

[Stern]

Not sure how you would schedule a practice week based on an all-Wednesday schedule. Thursday/Friday would be return from the road and recovery days, then you have the weekend, leaving only have Monday to implement your game plan (and Tuesday for home games). Home teams would have an enormous preparation advantage unless you practice on the weekends (if its even allowed).

Not to mention the impact on academics of having a gameday and one or two travel days (someone is flying across country each week in the Sun Beast) each week during the semester.

Then do an all Friday schedule. Bigger picture point is the Big East has to do something OUTSIDE THE BOX to stand out. They created this disaster of adding these garbage teams, now time to make the best of it. It's a shot in the dark ANYTHING they do will work. It will probably all fail, but if you are gonna fail at least go down swinging and aiming high. Signing a garbage deal with NBC to have games on a channel nobody watches or to stay at ESPN and be on Saturday's at god awful times and on ESPN's sister stations isn't going to work. Just make the death slow and painful.