Bilas: Way Games Officiated Needs to be changed...

[MikeSU02]

How is it good D, other than to induce a charge? If there's no call, then you're out of position.

Also, the flopping sucks, and it's way too easy to get a charge in college hoops. I know Bilas has said this a lot and I agree.

Agreed. They need to adopt the NBA semi-circle and start making it harder to get a charge call. If it's a toss up, it should be a blocking foul. A charge should be when someone either 1) lowers his shoulder, 2) is out of control while driving or 3) directly trying to run through a player who has already established position.

I've seen too many players start a drive to see a reactive defensive player do nothing else but try to slide underneath him.

 

[Knicks411]

If there is contact, shouldn't there be a call? If the defensive player has position and there is contact, then it's a charge.

I don't think they should call a foul any time there is contact. I mean, there's contact on every post up.

 

[Knicks411]

Agreed. They need to adopt the NBA semi-circle and start making it harder to get a charge call. If it's a toss up, it should be a blocking foul. A charge should be when someone either 1) lowers his shoulder, 2) is out of control while driving or 3) directly trying to run through a player who has already established position.

I've seen too many players start a drive to see a reactive defensive player do nothing else but try to slide underneath him.

Yeah, the refs seem to let guys get away with sliding under all the time. The Triche call was really an atrocious call. I can't bear to watch it again, but the replay I saw at the time; good God what a bad call.

 

[dollarbill44]

He tweeted during the OSU/Cuse game that the Triche charge was a horrendous call. Bilas hates charges. His philosophy is that unless it is blatantly obvious, it should be a block. He doesn't like flopping and thinks that the current rules encourage flopping. I generally agree with what Bilas says.

Well, it was a horrendous call. Aside from the fact that the contact occurred within the restricted area, the OSU guy was still moving laterally when the contact was made, let alone when BT left his feet. Charging is the call that refs LOVE to make more than any other.

 

[xc84]

I don't think they should call a foul any time there is contact. I mean, there's contact on every post up.

Sure, that's fine. My point is that there is a place for drawing a charge...and falling down can be good defense if there is enough contact to elicit a charge call. Again, it does draw attention to the area and helps the defender reduce the impact and thereby help reduce injuries.

With that said. Refs have a lot of trouble with charges. It goes both ways. I see way too many times where a defender still moving into position or moving while the player is in the air and the charge is called. I also see time where I know the guy with the ball won't stop no matter what is in front of him ...in effect, starts his "charge" really early. He creams the defender and the defender is called for a block. Refs just don't know how to call it right...and there should be emphasis on better officiating. I don't think the rules encourage "flopping" but I do think maybe poor officiating encourages/rewards bad acting too often.

 

[marz09cuse]

Um, well, yeah, you can't ban someone working based on age.

It's called a PT Test...This would guarantee overweight and out of shape refs like Jim Burr either were forced to get in shape, or forced to find a different career more suitable to their physical attributes, or lack thereof.

 

[Knicks411]

I don't think the rules encourage "flopping" but I do think maybe poor officiating encourages/rewards bad acting too often.

Agreed. It's not the rules, it's the refs.

 

[bpo57]

If there is contact, shouldn't there be a call? If the defensive player has position and there is contact, then it's a charge. If the D player falls, he draws attention to the charge and helps protect himself by lessening the impact of the charge. Good defense. If there is no contact, then there is no call. If, in that situation, a player falls, he looks foolish and was out of position...bad defense.

It's all about the level of contact. Minimal contact should not draw a foul but unfortunately it often does.

 

[xc84]

It's all about the level of contact. Minimal contact should not draw a foul but unfortunately it often does.

Agree...there is a threshold for level of contact...it needs to be reached before the ref blows a whistle.

 

[reedny]

Hence the entire point of this thread. And to my comment about what Bilas thinks, he thinks that officials call too many charges.

Case in point, Brandon Triche's charge against OSU. Officials are inconsistent in their calls, which leads to more defenders falling down and getting charges just because they fell down regardless of their positioning or movement.

Not only did that kid slide over after BT left the ground, his feet were in the restricted zone. This was a key point in the game .. where it could have gone either way.

 

[BuffOrange]

That does not refute my post. If a guy charges, it's a charge no matter whether the guy fell down or not. However, it's just good defense to help the ref out a little by falling, etc.. The fact that a guy falls does not make it a charge and the fact that guy does not fall doesn't make it a non-charge.

You live in a fantasy land. I wish refs officiated that way. They don't.

 

[Easy Goer]

I've seen too many players start a drive to see a reactive defensive player do nothing else but try to slide underneath him.

This is what is getting out of control. Guys are constantly sliding under the players that are in the air or just about to go up and get the charge called.

 

[Easy Goer]

I don't think they should call a foul any time there is contact. I mean, there's contact on every post up.

This is what I alson don't get and I think something needs to be changed. Post players are allowed to back up the defender most of the time. Why are they allowed to do that? The defender has established the position.

Then throw in the random charges they will call when the defender goes down/flops. Of course Keita doesn't get this call when Sullinger really does knock him over. There's no consistency to this call.

 

[Czar]

Going by the age issue, just do what FIFA does to test referees: you need to be in a certain physical shape to get to the very top of the referee pyramid. Basketball should do the same.

 

[Garbs]

No contact. No foul. What's the issue except that Paulus did a poor job of trying to draw an offensive? Paulus "flopped" and no foul was called. Officials were correct.

flopping is not basketball, no coach teaches it

I had a high school coach who would say 'take the charge', but we didn't do flopping drills, it is in no basketball and that is why people want to get rid of it

it is not good defense to flop or try to draw a charge

 

[Garbs]

Officials make a judgment. Sometimes good. Sometimes bad. There has to be contact for them to call a foul. There should be no official calling a charge if they don't see contact. The call against Triche was a poor call but has nothing to do with "flopping". When drawing a charge, it is sometimes warranted to fall down to lessen the impact to help avoid injury. Falling down is not "fake" nor is it "cheating". It's defensive technique.

how does falling down prevent an injury?

I hate resorting to name calling on the internet, but good god you are dumb

 

[xc84]

how does falling down prevent an injury?

I hate resorting to name calling on the internet, but good god you are dumb

You must have never played hoops.

 

[xc84]

flopping is not basketball, no coach teaches it

I had a high school coach who would say 'take the charge', but we didn't do flopping drills, it is in no basketball and that is why people want to get rid of it

it is not good defense to flop or try to draw a charge

haha. "It's not good defense to try to draw a charge". Too funny. I think this has run its course. "Flopping" is a term that I have yet seen defined here. But drawing a charge is taught by high school coaches. If not, fire the coach.

 

[Garbs]

haha. "It's not good defense to flop". Too funny. I think this has run its course.

no it isn't

 

[Garbs]

never in my life have I been involved in or seen a defensive drill that involved falling down or trying to draw a charge

 

[dollarbill44]

never in my life have I been involved in or seen a defensive drill that involved falling down or trying to draw a charge

There aren't drills for drawing charges, that I'm aware of, but they certainly do coach gaining position to draw a charge. They taught us that back in 1980.

 

[xc84]

no it isn't

Define "flopping". If you mean acting/falling when the offensive player has not hit you... I agree. If you mean putting yourself in position to draw a charge and getting the charge (meaning you get the ball and the opponent just tacked on another foul)... you are really way off. It's good defense. It's practiced. It's taught.

 

[xc84]

never in my life have I been involved in or seen a defensive drill that involved falling down or trying to draw a charge

Your point?

 

[xc84]

There aren't drills for drawing charges, that I'm aware of, but they certainly do coach gaining position to draw a charge. They taught us that back in 1980.

There sure are. A good coach teaches how to draw a charge...not just getting in the right position.

 

[xc84]

Yeah.. it's never taught:

http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/A813944

"You absolutely have to practice how you are going to fall before you attempt a charge in a game situation. This will greatly decrease your chances of getting hurt. You should fall backwards and 'sit down' so that you'll slide on your butt rather than keeping your knees locked and toppling like a tree or trying to catch yourself with your hands, which is an excellent way to break a wrist or two. "

No drills either: http://www.basketballcoach.com/cgi-bin/basketball/basketball-drills/dc/Taking-the-Charge-351.html

"Finally, dribbler dribbles full speed at the defender. As soon as they make contact, defender falls to the ground on back side."


http://www.perfectpractice.net/coaching-basketball/basketball-defense-articles/charge/

"We want to sit down and slide back on our rear-ends when drawing a charge, as opposed to reaching out with the hands and risk injuring a wrist injury on the fall."

http://www.ehow.com/video_4971507_take-charge-basketball.html

http://www.ehow.com/video_2366696_youth-basketball-man-defense-taking.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Draw-a-Charge-in-Basketball

http://www.ehow.com/how_2239323_draw-charge-basketball.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mgf6glBUjw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWhbK8GKciU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-_ZPaXdv-E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rJp-4-AdN0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vhsvstsrHU

http://www.82games.com/charge.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnI4AMIDKYA