Bilas: Way Games Officiated Needs to be changed...

[Garbs]

Define "flopping". If you mean acting/falling when the offensive player has not hit you... I agree. If you mean putting yourself in position to draw a charge and getting the charge (meaning you get the ball and the opponent just tacked on another foul)... you are really way off. It's good defense. It's practiced. It's taught.

flop (fl

p)
v. flopped, flop·ping, flops
v.intr.
1. To fall or lie down heavily and noisily.
2. To move about loosely or limply:

 

[mscanlo]

although it is bad, i dont think bilas' issue with the charge is the flop. he has a problem with a charge being called because an offense player already makes a commitment to the basket and the defender jumps in his way in the last second. flop or no flop, it's impossible for the offensive player to alter his path once he has already committed, but credit is given to the defender jumping in front of him in the last second even though he wasn't there when the offensive player committed to the basket.

 

[Garbs]

although it is bad, i dont think bilas' issue with the charge is the flop. he has a problem with a charge being called because an offense player already makes a commitment to the basket and the defender jumps in his way in the last second. flop or no flop, it's impossible for the offensive player to alter his path once he has already committed, but credit is given to the defender jumping in front of him in the last second even though he wasn't there when the offensive player committed to the basket.

you are right, and it is most often missed because the ref is looking at the defender and their feet not when the offensive player leaves theirs

 

[xc84]

although it is bad, i dont think bilas' issue with the charge is the flop. he has a problem with a charge being called because an offense player already makes a commitment to the basket and the defender jumps in his way in the last second. flop or no flop, it's impossible for the offensive player to alter his path once he has already committed, but credit is given to the defender jumping in front of him in the last second even though he wasn't there when the offensive player committed to the basket.

Yes. Bad calls are not good. I agree with Jay on this.

 

[realorange]

Nope. A charge is a charge but falling after getting hit is good D. In addition, falling helps protect the defender. You say that a ref can't seem to identify when it's just an act (no contact) or a real change...so how would a rule help with that. The problem you see may just be bad officiating.

So exactly when do you decide to flop? When a player full out barrels into you? When he barely brushes by you? When he comes close but you want the ref to call a charge anyway? Flopping is BS no matter how you cut it. Man up or get out of the way.

 

[kuethstheman]

although it is bad, i dont think bilas' issue with the charge is the flop. he has a problem with a charge being called because an offense player already makes a commitment to the basket and the defender jumps in his way in the last second. flop or no flop, it's impossible for the offensive player to alter his path once he has already committed, but credit is given to the defender jumping in front of him in the last second even though he wasn't there when the offensive player committed to the basket.

Agree. I think the standard for when the offensive player has committed needs to change. If he's moving into his last step or his prep for a jump, that's committed. Now, unless he's already leaving the ground, they can still slide under.

 

[kuethstheman]

No contact. No foul. What's the issue except that Paulus did a poor job of trying to draw an offensive? Paulus "flopped" and no foul was called. Officials were correct.

Officials should be required to T players up if they see that.

 

[Ghost]

The block/charge debate going on right now during Washington/Minnesota game right now.

Awful call just now and they called it a charge. Defender jumped underneath the guy after he elevated - nowhere near having his feet set.

 

[Ghost]

lol...another one and Romar almost ran out of the building he was so mad.

 

[otto123]

Flopping in basketball is ruining the game and it's getting a lot worse, it's almost as bad as soccer.

 

[SUGIANT]

I don't get the "don't like flopping" stuff. A charge is a charge no matter if the kid falls down or not. "Flopping" is just good defense and emphasizes the charge...but it does not define the charge.

Bull, the charge calls are the most horrendous things out there and have the charegs the players is moving and it's called anyway because of the flop.

 

[SUGIANT]

In what world? Probably 1% of charges involve the defender not falling down.

All I know is when Sutterfield can lower his head put it in our guys arm pit and move him aside that's and obvious foul, and it wasn't called. Was actually commented on as great play. Then the other way you have phantom whistles on players doing nothing.

I don't know if the game turned on bad calls but i know we could not have beaten Ohio St without being able to play their big men tough, that was taken away IMO. Dion didn't show also, KJ played soft also, kind of like usual IMO, and those were definite factors. Biggest factor was not having the 7 footer...

 

[xc84]

Bull, the charge calls are the most horrendous things out there and have the charegs the players is moving and it's called anyway because of the flop.

Yes, many times they don't call it correctly. That's the ref's fault...not the player's. It's not the player's job to help the ref make calls.

 

[xc84]

Officials should be required to T players up if they see that.

Sure, let's add another judgement call to the ref's list...because they do such a good job with the others. Let's complain about how the refs don't make the right calls and then give them another type of judgement call to make. Instead, why not hold the refs accountable for making the right call on a charge to begin with.

 

[SmilinBob]

All I ask is that the refs be consistent (call the game the same for both teams) and the closer we get to the championship game the better the refs.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

flopping is chickensh!t cheating and should be punishable by death

I recall that when I was taking referee classes, a "T" could be called for flopping. I could be wrong.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk

 

[kuethstheman]

Sure, let's add another judgement call to the ref's list...because they do such a good job with the others. Let's complain about how the refs don't make the right calls and then give them another type of judgement call to make. Instead, why not hold the refs accountable for making the right call on a charge to begin with.

You're right, in theory. I don't think it would be called very often but the threat of it would keep players from doing it, for the most part.

And I don't think it's an either/or thing. I think you do this even if you straighten out the block/charge calls.

As for straightening that out, I think you need to change the standard for when the offensive player is committed so that the defensive player can no longer slide in. Make it earlier in the offensive player's move. If he's driving, it would be as he lands on his take-off foot. If he's stationary, it would be as he gathers himself to jump.

 

[xc84]

You're right, in theory. I don't think it would be called very often but the threat of it would keep players from doing it, for the most part.

But if you look at the Paulus clip... he just looks stupid. It wasn't a foul. It wasn't a technical. No foul was (rightly) called. It didn't disrupt the play. I don't see a problem. I do see a problem if they had called an offensive foul... because clearly wasn't. I don't know why we need/want to add a new technical call...not sure what real problem we are solving and it could just create a whole nuther controversial problem.

Sure, make the rule such that the call is easier to make and the refs won't blow the call so much. That's fine with me. Even so, the current rules prohibit a player from moving under a player who is in the air. Many of the bad charge calls have a player in the air and the defensive player still moving. Somehow, that does not seem so difficult to call correctly but the refs miss on it a lot...as well as the other way around.

 

[kuethstheman]

But if you look at the Paulus clip... he just looks stupid. It wasn't a foul. It wasn't a technical. No foul was (rightly) called. It didn't disrupt the play. I don't see a problem. I do see a problem if they had called an offensive foul... because clearly wasn't. I don't know why we need/want to add a new technical call...not sure what real problem we are solving and it could just create a whole nuther controversial problem.

Sure, make the rule such that the call is easier to make and the refs won't blow the call so much. That's fine with me. Even so, the current rules prohibit a player from moving under a player who is in the air. Many of the bad charge calls have a player in the air and the defensive player still moving. Somehow, that does not seem so difficult to call correctly but the refs miss on it a lot...as well as the other way around.

The problem I see is that a player is trying to deceive the ref and that what he was doing (laying down in the lane) is potentially dangerous. Should be made a technical foul.

 

[xc84]

The problem I see is that a player is trying to deceive the ref and that what he was doing (laying down in the lane) is potentially dangerous. Should be made a technical foul.

Ok...so we will trust the ref to determine whether a player is trying to "deceive" the ref. If this situation was rife with cases of other players getting hurt... sure, make the change. I just don't see it happening. I just see players looking dumb sometimes and that's about it. I just see such a new rule creating new problems. Was he "deceiving" or was he reacting to expected contact or ? To me, it's much easier now. No contact. No foul.

 

[xc84]

If they do add the technical rule...I vote for calling it the Nicholas Cage violation (bad acting)

 

[Garbs]

xc84, I do agree with you that adding more and more conditions/rules/exceptions makes this way harder than it should be

what happened to whoever initiates the contact gets the foul?

 

[kuethstheman]

xc84, I do agree with you that adding more and more conditions/rules/exceptions makes this way harder than it should be

what happened to whoever initiates the contact gets the foul?

I think that's basically what we've got today and it's not great.

 

[xc84]

I think that's basically what we've got today and it's not great.

I agree...and it's not great because the officials don't do a good job calling it...but to me, it does not seem all that complex.

 

[Garbs]

I think that's basically what we've got today and it's not great.

definitely not