Bill Connelly on SU

[TheCusian]

you want to give him credit for being in some spread like cubit offense but you don't want to actually look at whether cubit's offense is any good.

we had a spread offense last year that you keep wanting to distance lester from.

if you want to give him credit for learning offenses, then maybe we should look at how well he learned the n zone over more than a year before running it.

Just now he's learning the spread? Grrreat

This reads like gibberish.

How about this:

"Tim Lester comes from the Bill Cubit tree -- he was the quarterback when Cubit was tinkering with a newfound spread offense as Western Michigan offensive coordinator in the late-1990s, and he was Cubit's quarterbacks coach at WMU for two years in the mid-2000s."

He played in the spread as a player and put up huge numbers:

"Lester threw for 11,299 passing yards with 87 touchdowns during his career, setting 17 school records under head coach Gary Darnell and offensive coordinatorBill Cubit. Lester finished his career ranked fourth all time in NCAA Division 1 for passing yards and sixth in touchdowns."

 

[Millhouse]

You're really worried about losing those two players? Or West? I disagree with the writer that we should worry about losing those "big play threats" that didn't have that many big plays.

Ish > West
McFarland/Morris/Incoming Freshman = Gulley/Ameen Moore

aye yi yi

we're talking about the column that you didn't really read. he talked about big plays coming from those two running backs. they're gone.

it's fine that you think the offense will be more consistent and won't miss those guys as much. but you tried to make it seem that's what connelly was saying

we had both ish and west last year. who steps up to be what ish or west (take your pick) was last year

 

[Millhouse]

This reads like gibberish.

How about this:

"Tim Lester comes from the Bill Cubit tree -- he was the quarterback when Cubit was tinkering with a newfound spread offense as Western Michigan offensive coordinator in the late-1990s, and he was Cubit's quarterbacks coach at WMU for two years in the mid-2000s."

He played in the spread as a player and put up huge numbers:

"Lester threw for 11,299 passing yards with 87 touchdowns during his career, setting 17 school records under head coach Gary Darnell and offensive coordinatorBill Cubit. Lester finished his career ranked fourth all time in NCAA Division 1 for passing yards and sixth in touchdowns."

he was a pretty good college Qb. interceptions kept him from being better

and his strengths as a passer (which should is somewhat separate from scheme) didn't appear to help much here the last two years

 

[TheCusian]

aye yi yi

we're talking about the column that you didn't really read. he talked about big plays coming from those two running backs. they're gone.

it's fine that you think the offense will be more consistent and won't miss those guys as much. but you tried to make it seem that's what connelly was saying

we had both ish and west last year. who steps up to be what ish or west (take your pick) was last year

He was wrong. There were not big plays that came from those guys consistently. It's like being the shortest midget.

 

[TheCusian]

he was a pretty good college Qb. interceptions kept him from being better

I tend to not care about coaching trees and college playing careers. I was attempting to play in your playground. IF those things matter, then his playing days and stats alone should give you pause when pronouncing him awful before he calls a game in his system.

I've been consistent: You and I don't know how good his system will be.

 

[Millhouse]

He was wrong. There were not big plays that came from those guys consistently. It's like being the shortest midget.

can we both agree that he didn't write anything close to "expects the offense to bounce back and be more consistent."

 

[MSOrange]

You're really worried about losing those two players? Or West? I disagree with the writer that we should worry about losing those "big play threats" that didn't have that many big plays.

Ish > West
McFarland/Morris/Incoming Freshman = Gulley/Ameen Moore

I wouldn't mind having West back, but admittedly, he never quite reached the level that I expected when he came here.

 

[TheCusian]

can we both agree that he didn't write anything close to "expects the offense to bounce back and be more consistent."

Yeah that's fine.

I'd posit that if you take all of his comments in total - he's expecting an improvement. Especially if you think Hunt will provide stability and you don't think his take on who our "decent playmakers" were is correct.

 

[TheCusian]

can we both agree that he didn't write anything close to "expects the offense to bounce back and be more consistent."

Honestly - are you that surprised that we both read the same article and came away with semi-different conclusions? I see hope, you see despair.

I blame your posting tree.

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah that's fine.

I'd posit that if you take all of his comments in total - he's expecting an improvement. Especially if you think Hunt will provide stability and you don't think his take on who our "decent playmakers" were is correct.

you are confusing yourself with connelly again. you thinking his playmakers take is wrong doesn't change what *he* is expecting

from the article
In one sentence: The offense is crafting a new identity, and the defense is crafting a new two-deep; that's a scary combination for a team that went 3-9, isn't it?

 

[Millhouse]

Honestly - are you that surprised that we both read the same article and came away with semi-different conclusions? I see hope, you see despair.

I blame your posting tree.

last heading

10. It's hard to improve when your good unit loses this much

You finger quote read that to mean you expect improvement

 

[TheCusian]

you are confusing yourself with connelly again. you thinking his playmakers take is wrong doesn't change what *he* is expecting

from the article
In one sentence: The offense is crafting a new identity, and the defense is crafting a new two-deep; that's a scary combination for a team that went 3-9, isn't it?

(Classic Milly. I can't refute everything, so semantics!)

An improvement to the offense. He said the defense is bound to have some growing pains. I agree.

He said a lot of bad things about last season, said it was good the get rid of Mcit, losing our best playmakers is bad, but Hunt's return (and running), if one of our 4 RB emerges (likely), our Oline, and Ish should help. Lester is a relative unknown.

<end of rehashing what he wrote / now talking about opinions of what he wrote>

Do you think we'll be better this year? It would be hard to match last years dreadful stats, no?

 

[bcubs9497]

Kind of hard to take Connelly's stats and analysis very seriously when he can't even get the roster right.

 

[TheCusian]

last heading

10. It's hard to improve when your good unit loses this much

You finger quote read that to mean you expect improvement

Don't tell me what I read or what I saw. I've been clear.

If you take the totality of what he wrote ON OFFENSE - it's a rehash of why we stunk last year (Mcit, Hunt and others injured) combined with the unknowns of Lester and his system. He then went out on a limb to say "oh no!" we probably shouldn't expect much. Crazy that you read that as "we will suck again" and I see it as a chance that we can improve.

You're so used to seeing things through that prism, you're unable to see the good stuff.

 

[Millhouse]

Don't tell me what I read or what I saw. I've been clear.

If you take the totality of what he wrote ON OFFENSE - it's a rehash of why we stunk last year (Mc. . . . it, Hunt and others injured) combined with the unknowns of Lester and his system. He then went out on a limb to say "oh no!" we probably shouldn't expect much. Crazy that you read that as "we will suck again" and I see it as a chance that we can improve.

You're so used to seeing things through that prism, you're unable to see the good stuff.

i prefer to let him conclude the way he wants. "the offense should get more stable at quarterback but loses every decent big-play threat." that doesn't mean he expects an improvement.

 

[TheCusian]

i prefer to let him conclude the way he wants. "the offense should get more stable at quarterback but loses every decent big-play threat." that doesn't mean he expects an improvement.

That's fine. I'll can't wait to see what happens when our RB/HB/WR actually put up big-play numbers this season. You and Bill will have to re-jigger your definitions.

 

[iommi]

It was just one writer's opinion, but I'm not sure how anyone can objectively read that write-up and look at it positively. Connelly clearly was trying to have the reader come away with the impression that the strength of the team last year was the defense and that unit has been decimated. He also outlines the myriad of other huge question marks, notably the QB position and the coaching staff. I thought it was a fair article but as was pointed out, his credibility has to be questioned with all the roster mistakes he made.

 

[Millhouse]

It was just one writer's opinion, but I'm not sure how anyone can objectively read that write-up and look at it positively. Connelly clearly was trying to have the reader come away with the impression that the strength of the team last year was the defense and that unit has been decimated. He also outlines the myriad of other huge question marks, notably the QB position and the coaching staff. I thought it was a fair article but as was pointed out, his credibility has to be questioned with all the roster mistakes he made.

roster mistakes are inevitable - so many teams so many players. the national guys might miss some of those details but be more aware of larger trends. the guys who know a roster backwards and forwards might not be as aware of bigger trends

 

[TheCusian]

It was just one writer's opinion, but I'm not sure how anyone can objectively read that write-up and look at it positively. Connelly clearly was trying to have the reader come away with the impression that the strength of the team last year was the defense and that unit has been decimated. He also outlines the myriad of other huge question marks, notably the QB position and the coaching staff. I thought it was a fair article but as was pointed out, his credibility has to be questioned with all the roster mistakes he made.

Yeah - I agree. I wasn't saying it was a positive write-up. I said it was fair. I just think that the question marks are opportunities and that the defense will be better than he thinks.

 

[bcubs9497]

roster mistakes are inevitable - so many teams so many players. the national guys might miss some of those details but be more aware of larger trends. the guys who know a roster backwards and forwards might not be as aware of bigger trends

Not that hard to get a roster right. If he can't even get a roster close to being correct, why characterize his analysis as eminently credible?

 

[iommi]

Yeah - I agree. I wasn't saying it was a positive write-up. I said it was fair. I just think that the question marks are opportunities and that the defense will be better than he thinks.

Question marks can always turn into answers but that wasn't the impression that Connelly was trying to convey. The whole tenor of the article was skepticism that we are going to be able to turn things around with this roster and coaching staff (coming off an awful year and losing most of our defense). I applaud you for trying to be optimistic.

 

[Millhouse]

Not that hard to get a roster right.

ok

 

[TheCusian]

Question marks can always turn into answers but that wasn't the impression that Connelly was trying to convey. The whole tenor of the article was skepticism that we are going to be able to turn things around with this roster and coaching staff (coming off an awful year and losing most of our defense). I applaud you for trying to be optimistic.

The media typically goes with the safest bet. The most likely scenario. That he did that wasn't a shocker - but in his data and explanations there was enough good/hope/question marks for me to see a good outcome.

So when I say fair - I mean he explored all of the good/bad and then came to a fair conclusion for a media guy to make. I just see more hope. Milly just posted all the stuff that confirms his opinions - some of the bad stuff... And then skipped the good.

 

[bcubs9497]

ok

There are at least 5 names missing, and a few that should be removed. The missing names are Shy, Steven, Anthony, Tyler, Sam. Colton is no longer there. I'm pretty sure that there are two DTs that are no longer on the team, as well.

ETA: Brandon's name should be on the roster; isn't

I'm just a moron; but I was able to sniff those errors out in under 5 minutes. If this guy is going to pass himself off as an expert, then maybe he should be a bit more diligent in his research. As it stands, in my opinion, it's just another hack piece (Syracuse sucks, yadda, yadda, yadda).

Worth what I paid; nothing.

 

[Scooch]

I'm not sure getting the roster 100% is all that important since the piece was largely a statistical analysis of last season. Naming players who haven't made meaningful statistical contributions in the past would really only lead to "this guy is supposed to be good but we don't know yet" type comments, and that doesn't seem to be what the point of the piece was.