Bills vs Cuse

[reedny]

Look you have to go back and analyze each circumstance ... you named SU players who are very good but who did Buffalo draft and why ... and as I stated earlier they have selected 2 SU players since 1982 ... my argument isn't that those guys weren't good players my argument is did they fit the need that Buffalo exhibited and who did they select in lieu of grabbing them. As for the free agent invites a lot of kids also have a choice as to where they end up and some like to go to warm weather climates or just look for a change of scenery ... players receive a lot of invites and not all are shared in public ... most of the time you only know where a guy wants to go camp because he selects that franchise ... lets face it Buffalo isn't a desired location if you have a choice of say Miami or Atlanta or well just about anywhere else.

No disrespect, but that's exactly what I don't want to do -- go over every single player choice Buffalo's made since the 80's. Then, what you'll do is argue that, miraculously in every single case for 30 years, Buffalo didn't need/want that particular Syracuse kid. We already know that. Thats the problem ... there are endless excuses/reasons why the Bills roster has been bereft of SU players for so long. I'm just tired of hearing them.

At this point in the discussion, the past is the past. You're (by now) familiar with my gripe. Personally, I think the problem was/is with Nix (others could be involved). And I'm reasonably confident that if Bill Polian stayed at the Bills, we wouldn't be having this discussion ... because Indy (arguably a much more successful franchise than the hapless bills over the past 20 years) has taken tons of SU kids and done very well and he probably would have done this at Buffalo.

The Giants have taken SU kids and done well.

Even the Patriots have taken SU kids (obviously they've done well).

So maybe they know something the Bills don't.

Regardless ... moving onto the future, I hope either Nix retires or the Marone connection between Bufffalo and Syracuse starts working a little less dysfunctionally. Personally, I'd love to follow some SU kids on the Bills, since they are upstate NY's only pro FB team. That would be great. Then I'd have a reason to follow the team even though they loose perennially.

 

[wfschrec]

No disrespect, but that's exactly what I don't want to do -- go over every single player choice Buffalo's made since the 80's. Then, what you'll do is argue that, miraculously in every single case for 30 years, Buffalo didn't need/want that particular Syracuse kid. We already know that. Thats the problem ... there are endless excuses/reasons why the Bills roster has been bereft of SU players for so long. I'm just tired of hearing them.

At this point in the discussion, the past is the past. You're (by now) familiar with my gripe. Personally, I think the problem was/is with Nix (others could be involved). And I'm reasonably confident that if Bill Polian stayed at the Bills, we wouldn't be having this discussion ... because Indy (arguably a much more successful franchise than the hapless bills over the past 20 years) has taken tons of SU kids and done very well and he probably would have done this at Buffalo.

The Giants have taken SU kids and done well.

Even the Patriots have taken SU kids (obviously they've done well).

So maybe they know something the Bills don't.

Regardless ... moving onto the future, I hope either Nix retires or the Marone connection between Bufffalo and Syracuse starts working a little less dysfunctionally. Personally, I'd love to follow some SU kids on the Bills, since they are upstate NY's only pro FB team. That would be great. Then I'd have a reason to follow the team even though they loose perennially.

Since 82 the Pats have drafted 4 Orangemen ... period ... or twice what Buffalo has drafted ... where do you get this idea that these teams load up on SU guys ... and two of them were drafted way before the Pats even had a modicum of success ... the Giants ... they drafted 4 in 30 years prior to this season ... the Jets ... 1 ... Polian only drafted 1 during his time in Buffalo ... honestly you really have no idea what you are talking about ... do you think the Jets are making excuses why they don't draft SU guys since they only took 1 during that time frame? You are way off base and obviously haven't researched this stuff ...

Since 82 Indy has drafted 5 SU players ... just 5 ... and two of them were in the 80s ... not sure where you get this tons of kids stuff from.

 

[reedny]

Since 82 the Pats have drafted 4 Orangemen ... period ... or twice what Buffalo has drafted ... where do you get this idea that these teams load up on SU guys ... and two of them were drafted way before the Pats even had a modicum of success ... the Giants ... they drafted 4 in 30 years prior to this season ... the Jets ... 1 ... Polian only drafted 1 during his time in Buffalo ... honestly you really have no idea what you are talking about ... do you think the Jets are making excuses why they don't draft SU guys since they only took 1 during that time frame? You are way off base and obviously haven't researched this stuff ...

Since 82 Indy has drafted 5 SU players ... just 5 ... and two of them were in the 80s ... not sure where you get this tons of kids stuff from.

You're just in denial. A Buffalo apologist died in the wool. So be it. The rest of us can see that this is a glaring problem with a long history -- always plenty of excuses but no syracuse players.

As far as the numbers, you cherry picked the period and the rubric to suit your viewpoint. Going back to 1990, not 82, would be 23 years. In that time, not only has Indy drafted far more SU players, they've actually played them. When's the last time the Bills have actually fielded a kid drafted from SU? I certainly can't remember one in the past couple of decades.

Also, you didn't bother counting UDFA's. Buffalo's had a couple of SU kids walk through camp. But they don't sign them. Indy's had a bunch. I think Josh Thomas might have been a UDFA. He was 6'8. Buffalo ignored him, and he went to Indy and played several seasons, although I think he was injured for a season. Taj Smith, same thing, UDFA, no Buffalo interest. He made Indy's practice squad and was later signed because of injuries to other players. Neither guy was a game changer, or pro-bowler. But at least I knew their names. There are plenty of these examples, on Indy and other teams (but I don't remember the 1 or 2 you mentioned from the elder Bush administration ever playing in a regular season game for Buffalo).

Delone Carter ... recent SU kid. Quality power back. Drafted by Indy in 2011 (maybe around 120 in later rounds). Buffalo .. not a sniff.

And I don't think Buffalo's ever dealt for an SU player .. even the good ones who've been established with other teams. No trades for SU guys.

Hmmm, pretty much zeros across the board, despite all your defensiveness. Lots of excuses and insults, but no SU kids. And you wonder why (besides all the losses), Buffalo's having so much trouble spreading its brand across central NY. Because the Bills don't get it. And neither do you. Nothing personal.

Go giants and Pats.

 

[wfschrec]

You're just in denial. A Buffalo apologist died in the wool. So be it. The rest of us can see that this is a glaring problem with a long history -- always plenty of excuses but no syracuse players.

As far as the numbers, you cherry picked the period and the rubric to suit your viewpoint. Going back to 1990, not 82, would be 23 years. In that time, not only has Indy drafted far more SU players, they've actually played them. When's the last time the Bills have actually fielded a kid drafted from SU? I certainly can't remember one in the past couple of decades.

Also, you didn't bother counting UDFA's. Buffalo's had a couple of SU kids walk through camp. But they don't sign them. Indy's had a bunch. I think Josh Thomas might have been a UDFA. He was 6'8. Buffalo ignored him, and he went to Indy and played several seasons, although I think he was injured for a season. Taj Smith, same thing, UDFA, no Buffalo interest. He made Indy's practice squad and was later signed because of injuries to other players. Neither guy was a game changer, or pro-bowler. But at least I knew their names. There are plenty of these examples, on Indy and other teams (but I don't remember the 1 or 2 you mentioned from the elder Bush administration ever playing in a regular season game for Buffalo).

Delone Carter ... recent SU kid. Quality power back. Drafted by Indy in 2011 (maybe around 120 in later rounds). Buffalo .. not a sniff.

And I don't think Buffalo's ever dealt for an SU player .. even the good ones who've been established with other teams. No trades for SU guys.

Hmmm, pretty much zeros across the board, despite all your defensiveness. Lots of excuses and insults, but no SU kids. And you wonder why (besides all the losses), Buffalo's having so much trouble spreading its brand across central NY. Because the Bills don't get it. And neither do you. Nothing personal.

Go giants and Pats.

In your prior post you cited 30 years ... you and Cuse 91 have used the 30 year argument ... and again to bnoro's point UDFAs are a different story ... Josh Thomas explicitly stated since he grew up in Orchard Park he wanted to play somewhere else ... Why would Buffalo draft Carter when they had Fred Jackson and the prior year spent a top 10 pick on CJ Spiller? Why in God's name would they blow a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick on a tailback? Do you know anything about the game of football or do you make this stuff up to suit a really weak argument?

 

[reedny]

In your prior post you cited 30 years ... you and Cuse 91 have used the 30 year argument ... and again to bnoro's point UDFAs are a different story ... Josh Thomas explicitly stated since he grew up in Orchard Park he wanted to play somewhere else ... Why would Buffalo draft Carter when they had Fred Jackson and the prior year spent a top 10 pick on CJ Spiller? Why in God's name would they blow a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick on a tailback? Do you know anything about the game of football or do you make this stuff up to suit a really weak argument?

You've totally missed the point and have produced not a single "statistic" to explain a very long, and disturbing, absence of SU kids on the Bills roster. The fact that you're arguing about 23 or 24 years versus 30 is illustrative -- and to incude, what, a 7th round pick 25 years ago who's name I've never heard of and who probably never even played for the Bills? It was probably Polian who made the pick. lol. Meanwhile, he's moved on and has been busy taking SU kids and operating a successful franchise.

Maybe it's lost on you that people who attend Bills games and watch them on TV tend to live in or near Buffalo (and the upstate region). This is nothing new to pro (or college) sports franchises ... it's called community support. SU has lots of fans in the same region, and is actually more popular in upstate than the Buffalo Bills. (There was a thread on this recently that included a detailed market study.) SU fans, whether you like it or not, like to see SU kids play in the pros, even if they're not stars. No we don't guarantee superbowl victories. But we like to follow our kids, as many college fans do. Buffalo has made that an impossibility. Meanwhile, other pro FB teams in the region that regularly draft or sign SU UDFAs have become popular -- the Giants are a prime example. The Pats, a little farther away, haven't been as popular here (Giants rivals) but will probably become more popular b/c of Gregory and Jones. The Giants are televised in upstate NY because people want to see them play. Buffalo is televised upstate ... but not usually in national markets. It's fans (like Syracuse's) are mostly in the upstate region, yet they don't take SU kids. Go figure.

Notice that none of this has nothing to do with biokinetics or any of the other microscopic factors you've been grasping at. It's just simple, regional demand. TV exec's understand this ... which is why you see the Bills and giants play on TV in this region -- the same region in which SU trumps the Bills in popularity. There's a lesson here that neither Buffalo nor you understands.

Instead of widening your perspective, you want to make excuses for 25 years of indifference ... one of the reasons why Buffalo's one of the NFL's worst teams. And not only are you an apologist for Buffalo, you've done it with arrogance. I find it comical that you want to argue how long the 'blacklist' (or whatever the problem is) has lasted: what, 25 years, 28 years, 26 years? Lol. After that long, is there really a difference? Do you think that matters? There's obviously a problem and you've bent over backwards to pretend it's not there, even blaming me for bringing it up.

I've enjoyed this discussion about as much as I did watching the piles of garbage burn in the Bills parking lot 10 years ago when I had the misfortune of seeing Buffalo play (loose).

 

[wfschrec]

You've totally missed the point and have produced not a single "statistic" to explain a very long, and disturbing, absence of SU kids on the Bills roster. The fact that you're arguing about 23 or 24 years versus 30 is illustrative -- and to incude, what, a 7th round pick 25 years ago who's name I've never heard of and who probably never even played for the Bills? It was probably Polian who made the pick. lol. Meanwhile, he's moved on and has been busy taking SU kids and operating a successful franchise.

Maybe it's lost on you that people who attend Bills games and watch them on TV tend to live in or near Buffalo (and the upstate region). This is nothing new to pro (or college) sports franchises ... it's called community support. SU has lots of fans in the same region, and is actually more popular in upstate than the Buffalo Bills. (There was a thread on this recently that included a detailed market study.) SU fans, whether you like it or not, like to see SU kids play in the pros, even if they're not stars. No we don't guarantee superbowl victories. But we like to follow our kids, as many college fans do. Buffalo has made that in impossibility. As a result (or coincidentally), other pro FB teams in the region that HAVE taken SU kids have become popular -- the Giants are a good example. The Pats, a little farther away, haven't been popular here (Giants ) but will probably become more popular b/c of Gregory and Jones. The Giants are on TV in upstate NY because people want to see them play. Buffalo is televised upstate ... but not usually in national markets. It's fans (like Syracuse's are mostly in the upstate region).

Notice that none of that has nothing to do with biokinetics or any of the other microscopic factors you've been grasping at. It's just simple, regional demand. TV exec's understand this ... which is why you see the Bills and giants play on TV in this region -- the same region in which SU trumps the Bills in popularity. There's a lesson here that neither Buffalo nor you has learned.

Instead of understanding this, you want to make excuses for 25 years of indifference ... one of the reasons why Buffalo's one of the NFL's worst teams. And not only are you an apologist for Buffalo, you've done it with arrogance. I find it comical that you want to argue how long the 'blacklist' (or whatever the problem is) has lasted: what, 25 years, 28 years, 26 years? Lol. After that long, is there really a difference? Do you think that matters? There's obviously a problem and you've bent over backwards to pretend it's not there, even blaming me for bringing it up.

I've enjoyed this discussion about as much as I did watching the piles of garbage burn in the Bills parking lot 10 years ago when I had the misfortune of seeing Buffalo play (loose).

I've given a plethora of numbers and facts ... based on this response I can tell you really can't handle being wrong very well ... you sir are quite a gem LOL ...

 

[reedny]

Plethora, lol, yah, one kid (that polian probably took) in the 7th 25 years ago. And a UDFA that never sniffed the field 15 years back. Do realize how silly you sound?

 

[wfschrec]

Plethora, lol, yah, one kid (that polian probably took) in the 7th 25 years ago. And a UDFA that never sniffed the field 15 years back. Do realize how silly you sound?

I never said a plethora of pics I said a plethora of facts in response to your post ... don't read well do you?

 

[reedny]

The only thing you've given a plethora of is excuses and bs. But good luck anyway.

 

[wfschrec]

The only thing you've given a plethora of is excuses and bs. But good luck anyway.

That was clever ... do you have a crack team of monkeys working around the clock writing your comebacks or was that a reedny original? You schtick is old ... and I am finding your response is always the same no matter how you are refuted ... you must be pretty ashamed since you keep using the same sorry lines over and over ... why don't you head back down into your mommy's basement and take a timeout, I'm going to seek out a more intellectual conversation with my son, since he at the age of 18 months understands the concept of facts much better than you do.

 

[reedny]

lol. Not only are you clueless about the problem at Buffalo ... (and FB in general), when you're cornered without anything legitimate to argue you become quite disagreeable. Hey, I understand... there have been so few (SU kids at Buff.) pretending nothing's wrong must be frustrating.

You're wide right, Tool. And on ignore from now on.

 

[wfschrec]

lol. Not only are you clueless about the problem at Buffalo ... (and FB in general), when you're cornered without anything legitimate to argue you become quite disagreeable. Hey, I understand... there have been so few (SU kids at Buff.) pretending nothing's wrong must be frustrating.

You're wide right, Tool. And on ignore from now on.

Awww I'm gonna miss you ...

 

[wfschrec]

Just couldn't quite get to the finish line of having a mature debate. Way to go both of you guys.

Hey I countered each of his arguments with simple facts and logic ... can't help the fact that he is thick as a brick ... he would cite an example and it seemed pretty easy to me to explain the counter to each ... he just didn't want to own up to the fact that he is off base ... you easily could have ignored it all if it troubles you this much ... but like I said it was easy enough explain why his various situations went they way they did ... it turns out he just doesn't use logic or reasoning ... seems pretty straightforward to me.