Bob Knight Rips John Wooden

[Townie72]

Wooden is not really a hero to me. I know UCLA benefited during his tenure from what are today egregious recruiting violations. However I learned a lot from him about how to coach a bball team, about how to think about what you're doing or need to adjust to. Even winning with dignity (that said, it's easy to be calm, cool and collected when you're kicking everyone's ass every year). Nevertheless, no cheered harder against UCLA during their fabled run than I did, especially in the Elvin Hayes game in the Astrodome. But the only thing I learned from Bobby Knight is how not to behave.

Bobby Knight wasn't a good basketball coach?

There's actually very little difference between what you just wrote about Wooden and what Knight saying more succinctly. The only difference is that your opinion of Wooden isn't affected by the shenigans that enabled his success.

 

[Townie72]

You're not getting it. The sneakers didn't sell for face value.

Now I get you might be able to get a few people to pay a premium for sneakers. But a 1,000 of them?

Small time stuff.

 

[dasher]

Now I get you might be able to get a few people to pay a premium for sneakers. But a 1,000 of them?

Small time stuff.

You don't need 1000

 

[CousCuse]

This really supports my thesis that Jim Beoheim is the greatest NCAA college basketball coach of all-time. Not only has Jim weathered 2 all out attacks from the NCAA mob ( Whose findings amounted to almost nothing) while compiling his phenomenal career, the coaches who are supposed to be ahead of him had every dirty deal done to help them win. That includes several coaches who are still coaching but who I will not name. None of these other coaches would have had the gumption to withstand these attacks, and people who are supposed to be SU fans continue to repeat this BS. Sad.

 

[Townie72]

Amazing! You guys have made up a scenario about a imaginary shoe store and you have amnesia over what transpired at UCLA. This was wholesale cheating. Gilbert brought players clothes, cars and even paid for abortions for the girlfriends of players.

Quote from Bill Walton, ""If the UCLA teams of the late 1960s and early 1970s were subjected to the kind of scrutiny Jerry Tarkanian and his players have been, UCLA would probably have to forfeit about eight national titles and be on probation for the next 100 years."

Jerry Tarkanian quipped, "The only team with a higher payroll was the Lakers."

The NCAA didn't take action until 1981, by which point Wooden and his ten titles had been retired for six years.

 

[Townie72]

You don't need 1000

What's a couple of Armani suits, some alligator shoes, a car and abortion for your girl friend in England worth in cash dollars or in number of resale sneakers?

 

[dasher]

g

Amazing! You guys have made up a scenario about a imaginary shoe store and you have amnesia over what transpired at UCLA. This was wholesale cheating. Gilbert brought players clothes, cars and even paid for abortions for the girlfriends of players.

Quote from Bill Walton, ""If the UCLA teams of the late 1960s and early 1970s were subjected to the kind of scrutiny Jerry Tarkanian and his players have been, UCLA would probably have to forfeit about eight national titles and be on probation for the next 100 years."

Jerry Tarkanian quipped, "The only team with a higher payroll was the Lakers."

The NCAA didn't take action until 1981, by which point Wooden and his ten titles had been retired for six years.

I haven't read any scenarios where people absolved Wooden. He was a cheater.

 

[Townie72]

g

I haven't read any scenarios where people absolved Wooden. He was a cheater.

And that's all that Knight said.

So what's the problem?

The Press is making a big deal out of this because Knight is the perfect foil.

Knight said Wooten was a good coach but he didn't respect the guy because there was so much cheating going on in the UCLA program.

I can't understand what's even controversial about this statement? Who could disagree with it? It's TRUE!!!

How does saying what everybody knows (or should know) make Knight a bad guy (or worse guy)?

 

[Cowtown]

Amazing! You guys have made up a scenario about a imaginary shoe store and you have amnesia over what transpired at UCLA. This was wholesale cheating. Gilbert brought players clothes, cars and even paid for abortions for the girlfriends of players.

Quote from Bill Walton, ""If the UCLA teams of the late 1960s and early 1970s were subjected to the kind of scrutiny Jerry Tarkanian and his players have been, UCLA would probably have to forfeit about eight national titles and be on probation for the next 100 years."

Jerry Tarkanian quipped, "The only team with a higher payroll was the Lakers."

The NCAA didn't take action until 1981, by which point Wooden and his ten titles had been retired for six years.

Bill Walton would not be my first choice for the philosopher-king of our generation. He'll say anything to attract attention to himself. So with that in mind, clown-prince would be a role more suited to his post-playing days skill set.

 

[dollarbill44]

And that's all that Knight said.

So what's the problem?

The Press is making a big deal out of this because Knight is the perfect foil.

Knight said Wooten was a good coach but he didn't respect the guy because there was so much cheating going on in the UCLA program.

I can't understand what's even controversial about this statement? Who could disagree with it? It's TRUE!!!

How does saying what everybody knows (or should know) make Knight a bad guy (or worse guy)?

I think because people tend to have an issue with someone taking shots at a contemporary when they have had myriad issues of their own. It kind of leaves a bad taste in the mouth, like a murderer being indignant over a mass murderer.

 

[Cowtown]

Bobby Knight wasn't a good basketball coach?

Who said that? I certainly didn't. And since you don't seem able to figure it out, I chose to study up on several coaches: Boeheim, Wooden, Calhoun, Mark Few, Glenn Wilkes, Hubie Brown, Lenny Wilkins and a few others you wouldn't know. I chose not to study anything of Bobby Knight. There was no need to associate myself with such an absolute AH.

 

[Cowtown]

I think because people tend to have an issue with someone taking shots at a contemporary when they have had myriad issues of their own. It kind of leaves a bad taste in the mouth, like a murderer being indignant over a mass murderer.

That about covers it, although I'm giving you a little latitude on the analogy.

 

[rrlbees]

Eh. We had Sam Gilbert threads 20 years ago.

 

[dollarbill44]

That about covers it, although I'm giving you a little latitude on the analogy.

Thanks. The analogy was a bit of a bludgeoning.

 

[AZOrange]

Bobby Knight should just shut up once and for all.

 

[retro44]

"Gilbert was ordered by the NCAA to disassociate himself with the UCLA program's recruiting process after allegations surfaced that he co-signed a promissory note so a player could buy a car. "

I guess the NCAA just wasn't LAX afterall.

 

[retro44]

Wooden is not really a hero to me. I know UCLA benefited during his tenure from what are today egregious recruiting violations. However I learned a lot from him about how to coach a bball team, about how to think about what you're doing or need to adjust to. Even winning with dignity (that said, it's easy to be calm, cool and collected when you're kicking everyone's ass every year). Nevertheless, no cheered harder against UCLA during their fabled run than I did, especially in the Elvin Hayes game in the Astrodome. But the only thing I learned from Bobby Knight is how not to behave.

So how many tittles did you win

 

[DoctorBombay]

What Bob Knight said is true. The real issue to some folks here, is that he’s the messenger.
Most of the ones “outraged” by this are employing the time-tested, often political technique of ”Whataboutism”, as in; “Wooden might’ve cheated, but what about what Knight did/said about _________(fill in the blank)”.

 

[Townie72]

Let me summarize what I heard.

Bobby Knight shouldn't be allowed to say that he did not respect Wooden due to the flagrant cheating that went on at the school when Wooten was coach there.

He should not be allowed because:

A. He's an azzhole and I don't like him.
B. Because there were probably violations at IU or TT when he was there and therefore that disqualifies him from having an opinion. (As a garden variety murderer should not be allowed to criticize Ted Bundy or John Gacy for being a little --- shall we say --- "excessive" in their work")
C. UCLA basketball icon, Bill Walton, shouldn't be listened to because he just wants to attract attention to himself.

Have I missed anything?

 

[Townie72]

Who said that? I certainly didn't. And since you don't seem able to figure it out, I chose to study up on several coaches: Boeheim, Wooden, Calhoun, Mark Few, Glenn Wilkes, Hubie Brown, Lenny Wilkins and a few others you wouldn't know. I chose not to study anything of Bobby Knight. There was no need to associate myself with such an absolute AH.

I'm sorry. I must of misunderstood.

When you wrote "But the only thing I learned from Bobby Knight is how not to behave." that seemed to me to suggest that there was nothing to be learned from Bobby Knight about coaching. Therefore he's a bad coach or at least not a good enough one so that something could be learned from him.

And when you just wrote, "I chose not to study anything of Bobby Knight. There was no need to associate myself with such an absolute AH." it sounded very much like you thought there was nothing of value that could be learned. Therefore he's a bad coach or at least not a good enough one so that something could be learned from him.

Now I don't like John Thompson, Jr ... but there are things anyone could learn from him. He was a master at manipulating the media and playing the race card and he cowed the administration of the University.

 

[Cowtown]

I'm sorry. I must of misunderstood.

When you wrote "But the only thing I learned from Bobby Knight is how not to behave." that seemed to me to suggest that there was nothing to be learned from Bobby Knight about coaching. Therefore he's a bad coach or at least not a good enough one so that something could be learned from him.

And when you just wrote, "I chose not to study anything of Bobby Knight. There was no need to associate myself with such an absolute AH." it sounded very much like you thought there was nothing of value that could be learned. Therefore he's a bad coach or at least not a good enough one so that something could be learned from him.

Now I don't like John Thompson, Jr ... but there are things anyone could learn from him. He was a master at manipulating the media and playing the race card and he cowed the administration of the University.

Whatever makes you happy.

 

[CaptainJ]

I'm sorry. I must of misunderstood.

When you wrote "But the only thing I learned from Bobby Knight is how not to behave." that seemed to me to suggest that there was nothing to be learned from Bobby Knight about coaching. Therefore he's a bad coach or at least not a good enough one so that something could be learned from him.

And when you just wrote, "I chose not to study anything of Bobby Knight. There was no need to associate myself with such an absolute AH." it sounded very much like you thought there was nothing of value that could be learned. Therefore he's a bad coach or at least not a good enough one so that something could be learned from him.

Now I don't like John Thompson, Jr ... but there are things anyone could learn from him. He was a master at manipulating the media and playing the race card and he cowed the administration of the University.

Townie brought some sense to this thread, and made quick work of his detractors, like Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee. I'm going to have to pay more attention to the guy, because in the highlighted portion alone, he has shared more wisdom than some clowns who have posted 10 times in the thread. Wisdom is all around us, opportunities to learn if you have eyes to see, and ears to hear, as even the Bible teaches. I kinda wanted a roll model on here because I was tired of getting abused for my unique style, and I think it's Townie I'd like to choose to emulate, and jettison my own style, so I will get less people arguing with me.

Townie, I eman this seriously, keep up the good work. I like guys who stand up to bullies and blowhards like you have in this thread, and more than held your own. Until I get my strength back, I would like to follow a stystem to make it easier on me, just til I'm healed though, I kindly request you keep educating these folks in your unique manner, so that maybe their eyes will finally open. They are conditioned by the media to have their minds close(literally) when certain trigger words(including names) are exposed to their ears. I find it both disturbing, and sad. Maybe scary too.

 

[tipphill]

i never liked his antics with respect to the players, but i do like his candid in your face comments.

 

[Townie72]

Townie brought some sense to this thread, and made quick work of his detractors, like Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee. I'm going to have to pay more attention to the guy, because in the highlighted portion alone, he has shared more wisdom than some clowns who have posted 10 times in the thread. Wisdom is all around us, opportunities to learn if you have eyes to see, and ears to hear, as even the Bible teaches. I kinda wanted a roll model on here because I was tired of getting abused for my unique style, and I think it's Townie I'd like to choose to emulate, and jettison my own style, so I will get less people arguing with me.

Townie, I eman this seriously, keep up the good work. I like guys who stand up to bullies and blowhards like you have in this thread, and more than held your own. Until I get my strength back, I would like to follow a stystem to make it easier on me, just til I'm healed though, I kindly request you keep educating these folks in your unique manner, so that maybe their eyes will finally open. They are conditioned by the media to have their minds close(literally) when certain trigger words(including names) are exposed to their ears. I find it both disturbing, and sad. Maybe scary too.

CaptainJ, thanks for the kind words, but if you don't want to be abused, you might not want to emulate my style. My stuff tends to attract confrontation. I actually like argument. Some do whatever they can to avoid it.

I also tend to distrust the sporting press except for a few guys like John Feinstein as a writer and Bilas as a commentator.

I don't know what you health problems are, but good luck on your road to recovery.

 

[Briancuse]

He's not wrong, but whats worse cheating or physically abusing your players?