Bobby Acosta new TE coach...

[Lawrinson14]

Wow. This guy coached at my high school (Monmouth Regional) my senior year. Really, really good guy. I know it's only high school, but he lead our team to just about the only winning season I can remember.

Edit 1: Now that I think about it, he was also my gym teacher. I know my friends that played for him loved him. Just don't expect him to stick around too long. I remember he used to always tell us that he would be a collegiate head coach someday.

Edit 2: Back in high school, I used to have a bunch of friends that played football. Somehow one of the movies I made for a school project (I was reaaaally into film at the time) made its way into the hands of Coach Acosta. Being that he was my gym teacher, he pulls me aside one day and asks me if I can film each game and make highlight films for certain players who were fringe collegiate players. Of course, I obliged.

Little did I know he would have me ride the team bus with my camera to games and have me film practices so he could show players what they were doing wrong. VERY, VERY positive and easy going guy. He used to give some really bad ass, movie-worthy, pre and post game speeches. He was also really big into fitness and nutrition. Always getting on guys about their workouts.

 

[nzm136]

I'm sure that these guys are solid in terms of personality, knowledge, and skill, and I like their geographic background, but I feel underwhelmed. None of them have big BCS resumes. I know that we're only talking about assistant coaches, but guys like Greg Atkins were nationally known recruiters who have a proven history of effectively developing talent at very high levels. The same goes for Vanderlin and Larry Johnson. I'm not saying that we should hire those guys specifically (2/3 are on the wrong side of the ball, and the 3rd is coaching for the Bills). I'm simply saying that star power at the assistant level exists, and I really wish that we would have landed someone who was a sure thing to take us to the next level.

I get that a lot of this has to do with fit, and HCSS comes from a MAC background, so he (and the rest of his coaching staff) may feel more comfortable around coaches with similar backgrounds (g5/FCS/DIII). Admittedly, that's very important. Don't get me wrong. But, if we want to be consistently good, our HC has to think bigger. Small programs (i.e. MAC programs) have produced some very good coaches, and many of them have gone on to find success in competitive BCS programs (HCSS was a great example of this when we first hired him as a DC). Those are the type of guys that we should target. Sure, they are harder (i.e. more expensive) to get, but if we want to consistently compete towards the top of a very competitive P5 conference, we have to spend money (and we DO have money...we were ranked #35 in terms of revenue last year, despite a BIG EAST conference payout, and we have enough political support to seriously consider building a $500 million stadium while building a $17 million ITP, three years after building a $19 million basketball training facility).

 

[nzm136]

To clarify my earlier post, when I bring up the MAC, it isn't aimed at any one specific coach. It's merely an observation that almost all of our staff has strong ties to the Mac (most coached together at either NIU or one of the Michigan directionals).

IMHO, we have a staff that's pretty good at recruiting (but we are still ranked towards the bottom of the ACC, rightfully or wrongfully), but our staff hasn't proven an ability to develop talent (to be fair, they haven't been here long enough to prove anything one way or the other) or game plan* (albeit we finished MUCH stronger than we started). To me, that's a top notch g5 staff. There is a great deal of potential and there are certainly some bright spots, but we aren't the full package yet.

*Our play calling was spotty on both defense and offense, and there were way too many stupid penalties throughout the year. That shows a lack of discipline and a lack of a solid grasp of the schemes. Much of that is on the players, but the ultimate responsibility for having the team ready for game day falls on the coaches. The good news is that both the offensive and defensive play calling improved throughout the year. On offense, I think that McD was green (which is why I want someone with a proven record), but I think that he learned a lot (this is a very positive sign). However, I think our improvement on defense had to do wit HCSS taking more of a role after the GT game (pure speculation). That's a bad sign. To me, the DC failed on the job, and I think that HCSS' personal relationship may be clouding his judgment. That said, am willing to wait another year before I judge too much. The penalties/blown assignments may have been cause by the normal confusion that accompanies a new coaching staff, and my speculation about the DC is just that...speculation.

 

[anomander]

I'm sure that these guys are solid in terms of personality, knowledge, and skill, and I like their geographic background, but I feel underwhelmed. None of them have big BCS resumes. I know that we're only talking about assistant coaches, but guys like Greg Atkins were nationally known recruiters who have a proven history of effectively developing talent at very high levels. The same goes for Vanderlin and Larry Johnson. I'm not saying that we should hire those guys specifically (2/3 are on the wrong side of the ball, and the 3rd is coaching for the Bills). I'm simply saying that star power at the assistant level exists, and I really wish that we would have landed someone who was a sure thing to take us to the next level.

I get that a lot of this has to do with fit, and HCSS comes from a MAC background, so he (and the rest of his coaching staff) may feel more comfortable around coaches with similar backgrounds (g5/FCS/DIII). Admittedly, that's very important. Don't get me wrong. But, if we want to be consistently good, our HC has to think bigger. Small programs (i.e. MAC programs) have produced some very good coaches, and many of them have gone on to find success in competitive BCS programs (HCSS was a great example of this when we first hired him as a DC). Those are the type of guys that we should target. Sure, they are harder (i.e. more expensive) to get, but if we want to consistently compete towards the top of a very competitive P5 conference, we have to spend money (and we DO have money...we were ranked #35 in terms of revenue last year, despite a BIG EAST conference payout, and we have enough political support to seriously consider building a $500 million stadium while building a $17 million ITP, three years after building a $19 million basketball training facility).

This staff has a totally different dynamic then Marrone's staff. The only way we got Adkins was basically as a favor to Marrone. I don't mind going with the young up and comers if they have connections in a certain area, which it looks like Acosta and Adam do. We don't pay enough to attract veteran position coaches.

I like the potential with these 2 hires.

 

[nzm136]

This staff has a totally different dynamic then Marrone's staff. The only way we got Adkins was basically as a favor to Marrone. I don't mind going with the young up and comers if they have connections in a certain area, which it looks like Acosta and Adam do. We don't pay enough to attract veteran position coaches.

I like the potential with these 2 hires.

You may very well be right, but I'm sick of hearing that as an excuse. Since 2005, we've built a football-only weigh room, converted Manley into an IPF, resurfaced 2 practice fields, renovated locker rooms, a training room, football study areas, player lounges, an athletic cafeteria, and the inside of the Carrier Dome. We were also darn near getting a $500+ million brand new stadium, and that very well might still happen before the end of 2015 (i.e. within the decade of my time fame). That's just the facilities that impact football. I find it amazing that an athletic dept. that is willing to dump that much money into a program is also not willing to shell out a couple hundred thousand dollars more to get proven assistant coaches. Honestly, we're contemplating investing more than half a billion dollars into the program on top of the $40 million (estimate) in facilities alone that we've invested in the last 8-9 years! Given how much assistant coaches matter, what's another couple hundred thousand dollars?

As I see it, loyalty to friends aside, HCSS is something special...or at least he was as a DC. However, I don't think that the team was well coached last year. The coaching wasn't awful. It was just mostly average, maybe slightly better than average. We won the games that we should have won, but we didn't win any of the games where we weren't supposed to win, and we usually didn't keep our losses close. The play calling on offense was uninspired (but hopefully that's improving due to more coaching experience and the players' increased familiarity with the system), and the defensive game planning was very bad until it suddenly got better (when I think HCSS took over). Beyond play calling, off the top of my head, I can think of 3 different games where the other team got a 50+ yard pass (or at least it felt like it) because our secondary wasn't watching the game due to either disorganization or infighting. Furthermore, although I haven't looked at our penalty yardage, I can pretty much guarantee that we were at the bottom of the ACC (or at least very close to it). I understand that some of the penalties is due to our aggressive style of play while on defense, but many of those penalties happened while we were on offense. Heck, Mackey got a false start...and he's our center. I had honestly never seen that happen until we did it!

To be fair, our coaching staff did have some great moments, so it isn't all bad. Like I said, I think that they're mostly average, but slightly on the good side of average. That's good for between 3rd and 6th place in the best division of the 3rd best conference every year. There's no shame in that, but I want something more.

You can say that Marrone had friends in BCS programs from his days at TN, whereas HCSS wasn't at either Stanford or Michigan long enough to make the same kind of elite connections, but I guess my response would be that in the world of college coaching, few things make friends faster than money. Since we have the money, we should use it.

Here's our season:

*We lost to Pitt on an unlucky play.
*We squarely lost to PSU (but stayed competitive - however, had their top WR played the entire game, it might not have stayed competitive).
*We were blown out by GT, FSU, Clemson, and NW.
*We blew out Tulane and Wagner.
*We convincingly beat WF, NCSU, and UMD, even though the score might not have indicated it.
*We beat BC and Minn. on lucky plays.

I don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill because it was our coach's first year, but this forum could very easily be a riot right now. Frankly, we have a long, long way to go before we turn this into a 9-10 win season.

 

[Whitey23]

You may very well be right, but I'm sick of hearing that as an excuse. Since 2005, we've built a football-only weigh room, converted Manley into an IPF, resurfaced 2 practice fields, renovated locker rooms, a training room, football study areas, player lounges, an athletic cafeteria, and the inside of the Carrier Dome. We were also darn near getting a $500+ million brand new stadium, and that very well might still happen before the end of 2015 (i.e. within the decade of my time fame). That's just the facilities that impact football. I find it amazing that an athletic dept. that is willing to dump that much money into a program is also not willing to shell out a couple hundred thousand dollars more to get proven assistant coaches. Honestly, we're contemplating investing more than half a billion dollars into the program on top of the $40 million (estimate) in facilities alone that we've invested in the last 8-9 years! Given how much assistant coaches matter, what's another couple hundred thousand dollars?

As I see it, loyalty to friends aside, HCSS is something special...or at least he was as a DC. However, I don't think that the team was well coached last year. The coaching wasn't awful. It was just mostly average, maybe slightly better than average. We won the games that we should have won, but we didn't win any of the games where we weren't supposed to win, and we usually didn't keep our losses close. The play calling on offense was uninspired (but hopefully that's improving due to more coaching experience and the players' increased familiarity with the system), and the defensive game planning was very bad until it suddenly got better (when I think HCSS took over). Beyond play calling, off the top of my head, I can think of 3 different games where the other team got a 50+ yard pass (or at least it felt like it) because our secondary wasn't watching the game due to either disorganization or infighting. Furthermore, although I haven't looked at our penalty yardage, I can pretty much guarantee that we were at the bottom of the ACC (or at least very close to it). I understand that some of the penalties is due to our aggressive style of play while on defense, but many of those penalties happened while we were on offense. Heck, Mackey got a false start...and he's our center. I had honestly never seen that happen until we did it!

To be fair, our coaching staff did have some great moments, so it isn't all bad. Like I said, I think that they're mostly average, but slightly on the good side of average. That's good for between 3rd and 6th place in the best division of the 3rd best conference every year. There's no shame in that, but I want something more.

You can say that Marrone had friends in BCS programs from his days at TN, whereas HCSS wasn't at either Stanford or Michigan long enough to make the same kind of elite connections, but I guess my response would be that in the world of college coaching, few things make friends faster than money. Since we have the money, we should use it.

Here's our season:

*We lost to Pitt on an unlucky play.
*We squarely lost to PSU (but stayed competitive - however, had their top WR played the entire game, it might not have stayed competitive).
*We were blown out by GT, FSU, Clemson, and NW.
*We blew out Tulane and Wagner.
*We convincingly beat WF, NCSU, and UMD, even though the score might not have indicated it.
*We beat BC and Minn. on lucky plays.

I don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill because it was our coach's first year, but this forum could very easily be a riot right now. Frankly, we have a long, long way to go before we turn this into a 9-10 win season.

Hard to argue with that

 

[anomander]

You may very well be right, but I'm sick of hearing that as an excuse. Since 2005, we've built a football-only weigh room, converted Manley into an IPF, resurfaced 2 practice fields, renovated locker rooms, a training room, football study areas, player lounges, an athletic cafeteria, and the inside of the Carrier Dome. We were also darn near getting a $500+ million brand new stadium, and that very well might still happen before the end of 2015 (i.e. within the decade of my time fame). That's just the facilities that impact football. I find it amazing that an athletic dept. that is willing to dump that much money into a program is also not willing to shell out a couple hundred thousand dollars more to get proven assistant coaches. Honestly, we're contemplating investing more than half a billion dollars into the program on top of the $40 million (estimate) in facilities alone that we've invested in the last 8-9 years! Given how much assistant coaches matter, what's another couple hundred thousand dollars?

As I see it, loyalty to friends aside, HCSS is something special...or at least he was as a DC. However, I don't think that the team was well coached last year. The coaching wasn't awful. It was just mostly average, maybe slightly better than average. We won the games that we should have won, but we didn't win any of the games where we weren't supposed to win, and we usually didn't keep our losses close. The play calling on offense was uninspired (but hopefully that's improving due to more coaching experience and the players' increased familiarity with the system), and the defensive game planning was very bad until it suddenly got better (when I think HCSS took over). Beyond play calling, off the top of my head, I can think of 3 different games where the other team got a 50+ yard pass (or at least it felt like it) because our secondary wasn't watching the game due to either disorganization or infighting. Furthermore, although I haven't looked at our penalty yardage, I can pretty much guarantee that we were at the bottom of the ACC (or at least very close to it). I understand that some of the penalties is due to our aggressive style of play while on defense, but many of those penalties happened while we were on offense. Heck, Mackey got a false start...and he's our center. I had honestly never seen that happen until we did it!

To be fair, our coaching staff did have some great moments, so it isn't all bad. Like I said, I think that they're mostly average, but slightly on the good side of average. That's good for between 3rd and 6th place in the best division of the 3rd best conference every year. There's no shame in that, but I want something more.

You can say that Marrone had friends in BCS programs from his days at TN, whereas HCSS wasn't at either Stanford or Michigan long enough to make the same kind of elite connections, but I guess my response would be that in the world of college coaching, few things make friends faster than money. Since we have the money, we should use it.

Here's our season:

*We lost to Pitt on an unlucky play.
*We squarely lost to PSU (but stayed competitive - however, had their top WR played the entire game, it might not have stayed competitive).
*We were blown out by GT, FSU, Clemson, and NW.
*We blew out Tulane and Wagner.
*We convincingly beat WF, NCSU, and UMD, even though the score might not have indicated it.
*We beat BC and Minn. on lucky plays.

I don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill because it was our coach's first year, but this forum could very easily be a riot right now. Frankly, we have a long, long way to go before we turn this into a 9-10 win season.

I'm not disagreeing with your reasoning. hell i'd love nothing more then to see the football program be able to splurge on assistant coaches, it just doesn't look like it's happening yet.

I also tend to agree with you about this staff compared to the prior one. While I think this staff is better at some important aspects (recruiting), i do agree with you that i felt the prior staff gave us a better chance to win from an X's and O's standpoint. Under Marrone I always felt we had a chance to win, or in the least be competitive due to our game planning. I have yet to gain that feeling with this staff. This is a young group so there should be a learning curve. Hopefully we can see continued improvements this year

 

[TheCusian]

Here's our season:

*We lost to Pitt on an unlucky play.
*We squarely lost to PSU (but stayed competitive - however, had their top WR played the entire game, it might not have stayed competitive).
*We were blown out by GT, FSU, Clemson, and NW.
*We blew out Tulane and Wagner.
*We convincingly beat WF, NCSU, and UMD, even though the score might not have indicated it.
*We beat BC and Minn. on lucky plays.

I don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill because it was our coach's first year, but this forum could very easily be a riot right now. Frankly, we have a long, long way to go before we turn this into a 9-10 win season.

1. You're discounting professional development (Good coaches get better). Young coaches under Shafer (a coach who is widely respected - and will not stand still) will improve. The family atmosphere is not some recruiting gimmick. The staff is an environment that will get the best out of them.

2. Had T.Hunt played the game vs PSU, we win. They were not very good.

3. We beat BC and Minn on the back of a heady, very poised emerging QB - who still has a lot of developing to do.

4. You could make the case that our WR were the worst in the p5. Throw in an inexperienced HC, OC, and new starter at QB? Ugly games. I think the talent influx combined with the natural growth of THunt, we'll see a much, much better offense.

There is a lot of reason to believe 7-8 wins is the expectation. Some lucky bounces and unexpected playmakers later? 9-10 isn't that crazy.

 

[blizz]

This staff has a totally different dynamic then Marrone's staff. The only way we got Adkins was basically as a favor to Marrone. I don't mind going with the young up and comers if they have connections in a certain area, which it looks like Acosta and Adam do. We don't pay enough to attract veteran position coaches.

I like the potential with these 2 hires.

I honestly have no clue about the respective coaches salaries, and am curious where you guys source such information. I would sincerely appreciate being clued in.

I'm wondering however how much discretion you think Shafer is given in making the decisions about filling his staff. If it's a matter of him being given a budget and carte-blanche as far as the decision or if he has the discretion to justify higher comp in exchange for a big name. At the surface it would appear that he's operating under constraints imposed by the athletic department at least where the numbers are concerned. I bring this up because Shafer strikes me as shrewd enough to have made the decisions to bring in the staff he has not only based on the motivational incentive that guys coming up from the lower levels bring but also factor in the political dynamic involved. It seems to me the staffing decisions are being made with the preference, at least from Shafer's perspective, for first producing results to justify any potential increases in pay rather than the other way around. Anyone with me on this?

 

[nzm136]

1. You're discounting professional development (Good coaches get better). Young coaches under Shafer (a coach who is widely respected - and will not stand still) will improve. The family atmosphere is not some recruiting gimmick. The staff is an environment that will get the best out of them.

2. Had T.Hunt played the game vs PSU, we win. They were not very good.

3. We beat BC and Minn on the back of a heady, very poised emerging QB - who still has a lot of developing to do.

4. You could make the case that our WR were the worst in the p5. Throw in an inexperienced HC, OC, and new starter at QB? Ugly games. I think the talent influx combined with the natural growth of THunt, we'll see a much, much better offense.

There is a lot of reason to believe 7-8 wins is the expectation. Some lucky bounces and unexpected playmakers later? 9-10 isn't that crazy.

1. You're discounting the possibility of not turning into a coaching stud. I'm not saying that they can't/won't grow. For instance, McD has made awesome progress and I'm very excited about him in the future. However, odds are always against any one individual's progression from a promising young coach to a seasoned vet with realized talent. There can only be one person who is the best in the world at anything, and there is no such thing as a sure thing prospect. That's why there needs to be a balance. We need the seasoned vets who are proven commodities to balance out the aspiring new hires with potential. Similarity, we need the new blood (young coaches) to keep us from getting stale. Right now we are out of balance. We have too much potential and not enough realized potential.

2. Had PSU played Robinson, PSU would have won by 2-3 TD's. They can play that game, too. However, I agree that they weren't good. But, we lost to them. What does that say about us? I get that it was our first game in a rookie coach's first season. I can let it slide . However, my point still stands. Last season wasn't bad. It just wasn't fantastic, and we had a ton of luck on our side.

3. We beat Minn. and BC on sone exceedingly lucky plays that would not have happened more often than not. A win is a win, and I'm happy about it. My point is simply had those freak occurrences not happened, there would be a lot of questions about our coaching talent flying around this forum. I would much rather bank on talent than luck.

4. You're dead wrong about our wr's. Other than that, I agree. We should have a ton of talent next year, and our win total should be better, but I think that has more to do with an easier schedule. I think that we will lose to Clemson and FSU. I think that we will then split ND and UL and BC and Pitt, with the possibility of one more random loss, giving us a 7-5 regular season record and the possibility of going 8-5 with a bowl win.

 

[All4SU]

From my perspective, this staff DOES look like a mixture of "seasoned veterans" and up and coming younger coaches. I just don't get the angst.

 

[Orangeyes]

1. You're discounting the possibility of not turning into a coaching stud. I'm not saying that they can't/won't grow. For instance, McD has made awesome progress and I'm very excited about him in the future. However, odds are always against any one individual's progression from a promising young coach to a seasoned vet with realized talent. There can only be one person who is the best in the world at anything, and there is no such thing as a sure thing prospect. That's why there needs to be a balance. We need the seasoned vets who are proven commodities to balance out the aspiring new hires with potential. Similarity, we need the new blood (young coaches) to keep us from getting stale. Right now we are out of balance. We have too much potential and not enough realized potential.

2. Had PSU played Robinson, PSU would have won by 2-3 TD's. They can play that game, too. However, I agree that they weren't good. But, we lost to them. What does that say about us? I get that it was our first game in a rookie coach's first season. I can let it slide . However, my point still stands. Last season wasn't bad. It just wasn't fantastic, and we had a ton of luck on our side.

3. We beat Minn. and BC on sone exceedingly lucky plays that would not have happened more often than not. A win is a win, and I'm happy about it. My point is simply had those freak occurrences not happened, there would be a lot of questions about our coaching talent flying around this forum. I would much rather bank on talent than luck.

4. You're dead wrong about our wr's. Other than that, I agree. We should have a ton of talent next year, and our win total should be better, but I think that has more to do with an easier schedule. I think that we will lose to Clemson and FSU. I think that we will then split ND and UL and BC and Pitt, with the possibility of one more random loss, giving us a 7-5 regular season record and the possibility of going 8-5 with a bowl win.

A counter to Robinson is we didn't play our better QB

 

[SUFan44]

1. You're discounting the possibility of not turning into a coaching stud. I'm not saying that they can't/won't grow. For instance, McD has made awesome progress and I'm very excited about him in the future. However, odds are always against any one individual's progression from a promising young coach to a seasoned vet with realized talent. There can only be one person who is the best in the world at anything, and there is no such thing as a sure thing prospect. That's why there needs to be a balance. We need the seasoned vets who are proven commodities to balance out the aspiring new hires with potential. Similarity, we need the new blood (young coaches) to keep us from getting stale. Right now we are out of balance. We have too much potential and not enough realized potential.

2. Had PSU played Robinson, PSU would have won by 2-3 TD's. They can play that game, too. However, I agree that they weren't good. But, we lost to them. What does that say about us? I get that it was our first game in a rookie coach's first season. I can let it slide . However, my point still stands. Last season wasn't bad. It just wasn't fantastic, and we had a ton of luck on our side.

3. We beat Minn. and BC on sone exceedingly lucky plays that would not have happened more often than not. A win is a win, and I'm happy about it. My point is simply had those freak occurrences not happened, there would be a lot of questions about our coaching talent flying around this forum. I would much rather bank on talent than luck.

4. You're dead wrong about our wr's. Other than that, I agree. We should have a ton of talent next year, and our win total should be better, but I think that has more to do with an easier schedule. I think that we will lose to Clemson and FSU. I think that we will then split ND and UL and BC and Pitt, with the possibility of one more random loss, giving us a 7-5 regular season record and the possibility of going 8-5 with a bowl win.

How is he dead wrong about out WRs? They were among the least talented as a collective whole in major college football. Do you think bringing in 6 WRs this class was an accident?

 

[nzm136]

From my perspective, this staff DOES look like a mixture of "seasoned veterans" and up and coming younger coaches. I just don't get the angst.

I guess I should say "season vets who have experienced success at a high (BCS) level."

I get that we aren't going to raid Ohio Sate, but there are a number of bad BCS teams with some bright spots. I wod rather raid them for their bright spots. We honestly aren't a bad job. We have facilities, money, a name, and a presence in the south, Midwest, and northeast. Heck, given the placement of our previous assistant coaches, we are also reasonably high profile.

 

[nzm136]

How is he dead wrong about out WRs? They were among the least talented as a collective whole in major college football. Do you think bringing in 6 WRs this class was an accident?

They absolutely were not amongst the least talented in football. It was actually one of the better classes that we've had in the last 15 years. Their numbers were weak, but that was due to coaching turmoil, an inexperienced HC, an inexperienced OC, an inexperienced QB, and QB turmoil.

Look beyond the numbers.

Btw, HCSS also wants 7 QB's. Does that mean he thinks Hunt stinks ? No. It doesn't.

 

[nzm136]

A counter to Robinson is we didn't play our better QB

I agree. That's kind of my point. They balance out.

 

[SUFan44]

They absolutely were not amongst the least talented in football. It was actually one of the better classes that we've had in the last 15 years. Their numbers were weak, but that was due to coaching turmoil, an inexperienced HC, an inexperienced OC, an inexperienced QB, and QB turmoil.

Look beyond the numbers.

Btw, HCSS also wants 7 QB's. Does that mean he thinks Hunt stinks ? No. It doesn't.

I'm looking beyond the numbers while also looking at the numbers.

Christopher Clark was a marginal D1 player. Ashton Broyld was a first-year WR. Jarrod West is a decent third option, but NONE of those three can stretch the field and get separation. Estime was good but even he is not a true WR.

Better classes we've had in 15 years? At WR? I want what you're having.

 

[timkay99]

They absolutely were not amongst the least talented in football. It was actually one of the better classes that we've had in the last 15 years. Their numbers were weak, but that was due to coaching turmoil, an inexperienced HC, an inexperienced OC, an inexperienced QB, and QB turmoil.

Look beyond the numbers.

Btw, HCSS also wants 7 QB's. Does that mean he thinks Hunt stinks ? No. It doesn't.

They were definitely amongst the least talented in the P5 conferences. They were better then some Sun Belt teams.

This year, I don't think many true frosh play, but they will be middle of the pack in P5 with Funderburke, Broyld and Estime.

 

[All4SU]

I guess I should say "season vets who have experienced success at a high (BCS) level."

I get that we aren't going to raid Ohio Sate, but there are a number of bad BCS teams with some bright spots. I wod rather raid them for their bright spots. We honestly aren't a bad job. We have facilities, money, a name, and a presence in the south, Midwest, and northeast. Heck, given the placement of our previous assistant coaches, we are also reasonably high profile.

You know that Doug Marrone coached at Cortland State, Coast Guard Academy and Northeastern, right? Nick Saban coached at Kent State. Pete Carroll coached at Pacific. And on and on. Time will tell whether or not these guys can coach at the Syracuse level.

 

[nzm136]

I'm looking beyond the numbers while also looking at the numbers.

Christopher Clark was a marginal D1 player. Ashton Broyld was a first-year WR. Jarrod West is a decent third option, but NONE of those three can stretch the field and get separation. Estime was good but even he is not a true WR.

Better classes we've had in 15 years? At WR? I want what you're having.[

You know that Doug Marrone coached at Cortland State, Coast Guard Academy and Northeastern, right? Nick Saban coached at Kent State. Pete Carroll coached at Pacific. And on and on. Time will tell whether or not these guys can coach at the Syracuse level.

Yes, but before all those coaches got their latest college job, HCDM came from the Saints (OC), Pete Carroll came from the Patriots (HC), and Saban came from the Dolphins (HC). See a difference? Coaches start at the bottom and work their way up. We have a mentality that we're on the bottom and thus have to give people the big break. I say that's not the case. We should let other schools take the risks, then raid them when it works. IMHO, we have a defeatist mentality and that needs to end. Grob is gone and HCSS isn't playing ball in the MAC.

HCSS was a great hire and can be something special if he surrounds himself with similar talent.

 

[rrlbees]

How is he dead wrong about out WRs? They were among the least talented as a collective whole in major college football. Do you think bringing in 6 WRs this class was an accident?

The QB wasn't any better until the end of the season. It's a chicken or egg thing. People forget just how bad Hunt was. Just like those who assume we beat PSU with Hunt. How do they know. And just like WR, we've brought in a boatload of supposed talented QBs the past 2 years.

 

[nzm136]

Your unde

I'm looking beyond the numbers while also looking at the numbers.

Christopher Clark was a marginal D1 player. Ashton Broyld was a first-year WR. Jarrod West is a decent third option, but NONE of those three can stretch the field and get separation. Estime was good but even he is not a true WR.

Better classes we've had in 15 years? At WR? I want what you're having.

You're underselling West as a deep threat, and Ashton converted from a RB. He is a dangerous back in a bubble/screen. That alone is a potentially productive combo. Throw in the other 3-4 receivers that we have, and we are far from the bottom of the barrel.

Frankly, last year aside, the last time we had a better WR corp was '07-08 when we had Taj Smith and Muke Williams, but that only lasted about 3 games before Taj went down to injury.

Our passing game had problems beyond the receivers' control. They can't be held accountable for that.

 

[RMH44]

Yes, but before all those coaches got their latest college job, HCDM came from the Saints (OC), Pete Carroll came from the Patriots (HC), and Saban came from the Dolphins (HC). See a difference? Coaches start at the bottom and work their way up. We have a mentality that we're on the bottom and thus have to give people the big break. I say that's not the case. We should let other schools take the risks, then raid them when it works. IMHO, we have a defeatist mentality and that needs to end. Grob is gone and HCSS isn't playing ball in the MAC.

HCSS was a great hire and can be something special if he surrounds himself with similar talent.

Wow... reality check. We're talking about position coaches here. For every Pete Carroll you cite, I can counter with an Art Briles.

It ridiculous for you to imply that HCSS hasn't surrounded himself with quality coaching talent.

 

[TheCusian]

Your unde You're underselling West as a deep threat, and Ashton converted from a RB. He is a dangerous back in a bubble/screen. That alone is a potentially productive combo. Throw in the other 3-4 receivers that we have, and we are far from the bottom of the barrel. Frankly, last year aside, the last time we had a better WR corp was '07-08 when we had Taj Smith and Muke Williams, but that only lasted about 3 games before Taj went down to injury. Our passing game had problems beyond the receivers' control. They can't be held accountable for that.

You must have missed last season entirely. West could not get separation most of the year, especially vs ACC CB's. Broyld had a ton of bubble screens thrown to him - blocking was bad and while shifty - he didn't do much to warrant the amount of attempts. Estime did a much nicer job towards the end if the season - with Broyld as the blocker.

Now - think back to the record breaking duo of Sales and Lemon? They were way better than last years corp. Better than Taj and Williams (if only due to injury and off field issues).

The WR's were so bad we played the only guy who could beat someone on the outside: our starting safety.

 

[javadoc]

HCSS was a great hire and can be something special if he surrounds himself with similar talent.

Adam was a hire you could have seen coming, in retrospect, given his history with the existing staff. They were going to fit him in somehow eventually. Shafer & co. could give a flying f whether we think he's a good hire or not.

You have said a couple times that we should "raid" other BCS teams. We may get a coach from another BCS team, sure. But we are not now, nor in the near future, going to "raid." We are simply not at a place, as a program, that we can do that - for more than the perception reason.

Guys with proven success as a coach and recruiter at the BCS level are not coming here to be a line-level position coach. IF Shafer succeeds, and the program puts a couple good years together, and it looks like Shafer is in a stable place, then maybe some guys would consider us. But even then, they have to fit the staffing personality profile, and the money needs to be there. That's not an excuse, it's a fact. AD has to make the decision.