Brent's Survey on Why People Stopped Attending SU Games

[orange_in_VA]

Chip Kelly when the Eagles fire him... I kid... maybe...

I wouldn't be opposed to that. He would probably have much better offers than coming to Cuse though.

 

[Macky44]

Heres the deal with attendance. Its really not hard Im 44. I was 10 when the dome opened and like to think i lived in the "glory years" of attendance. Post 1986 it was packed for many games. Why has that changed. Here are my reasons Older people who attended games regularly (in their 50's and 60's) are either too old now or dead unfortunately. Both my grandfathers used to attend every game. Now they are in their 80's and 90's. Many many people fall into this category.

Kids dont grow up living in syracuse anymore. Out of the 15 real close high school friends that i have there are only 2 of us who still live in the area. Everyone else (who used to attend games) dont anymore. They add up to a big number. This means less and less people who were su diehards are bringing their families to the games. I have friends who grew up here and were hige fans who live in other states where their kids want to root for notre dame or ohio state because its where they live.

The product has suffered for the past dozen plus years. Any young children who are growing up syracuse fans (i have one) its hard to convince them that we WERE a prominent program at one time. My son who ia 15 only knows syracuse football as being terrible. Its hard to spin it. Ask a 12 year old if he would rather watch su play central michigan or go hang out with buddies on a 75 degree day. No brainer.

Stop scheduling home games in september. Whether people want to believe it or not there are many alternatives to spending a 75 degree day in mid to late aeptember than watching su football in the dome. Id rather see games in october when the weather turns crappy. It would make a difference.

Television. Being able to watch a game on. 60 inch tv in high def with beer and food readily available in a comfortable recliner is an attractive option. Especially if its crappy outside

We have become a gimmicky football program. Trying to put lipstick on a pig for the most part. Yes the IPF will help but for gods sake until we invest real money into this program what do people expect? This town will NEVER get a sold out stadium every game again. Not going to happen. Accept it for what it is. I have and will just hope for the best.

Im literally the opposite of you with childhood friends. ALL of my friends who have been going to games since we have been physically able to are still going every year AS are our parents. I guess I'm in a good crowd haha.

 

[Longtimesu]

Heres the deal with attendance. Its really not hard Im 44. I was 10 when the dome opened and like to think i lived in the "glory years" of attendance. Post 1986 it was packed for many games. Why has that changed. Here are my reasons Older people who attended games regularly (in their 50's and 60's) are either too old now or dead unfortunately. Both my grandfathers used to attend every game. Now they are in their 80's and 90's. Many many people fall into this category.

Kids dont grow up living in syracuse anymore. Out of the 15 real close high school friends that i have there are only 2 of us who still live in the area. Everyone else (who used to attend games) dont anymore. They add up to a big number. This means less and less people who were su diehards are bringing their families to the games. I have friends who grew up here and were hige fans who live in other states where their kids want to root for notre dame or ohio state because its where they live.

The product has suffered for the past dozen plus years. Any young children who are growing up syracuse fans (i have one) its hard to convince them that we WERE a prominent program at one time. My son who ia 15 only knows syracuse football as being terrible. Its hard to spin it. Ask a 12 year old if he would rather watch su play central michigan or go hang out with buddies on a 75 degree day. No brainer.

Stop scheduling home games in september. Whether people want to believe it or not there are many alternatives to spending a 75 degree day in mid to late aeptember than watching su football in the dome. Id rather see games in october when the weather turns crappy. It would make a difference.

Television. Being able to watch a game on. 60 inch tv in high def with beer and food readily available in a comfortable recliner is an attractive option. Especially if its crappy outside

We have become a gimmicky football program. Trying to put lipstick on a pig for the most part. Yes the IPF will help but for gods sake until we invest real money into this program what do people expect? This town will NEVER get a sold out stadium every game again. Not going to happen. Accept it for what it is. I have and will just hope for the best.

 

[Longtimesu]

Bingo!!!! Marsh you are right about older people. Many did grow up going to the old concrete stadium. But now, like myself, have bad knees, hips, etc and cannot climb the hills, let alone the steps in the second and third levels of the Dome. I think the OP was way out of line by suggesting we are all bozos because we complain about walking up hills.

 

[storange]

I selfishly prefer small crowds. It is a far more comfortable experience; no concourse congestion, the people next to us move down, people often choose to hop up or down a row to get to the aisle instead of tripping over us; no line for beer even during halftime, my wife does not take a year in the bathroom. I might change my mind when it happens, but if the program ever gets to the point where it is averaging 45,000 +, I might give up my season tickets.

Im speechless

 

[shandeezy7]

Bingo!!!! Marsh you are right about older people. Many did grow up going to the old concrete stadium. But now, like myself, have bad knees, hips, etc and cannot climb the hills, let alone the steps in the second and third levels of the Dome. I think the OP was way out of line by suggesting we are all bozos because we complain about walking up hills.

Wouldn't the pretty easy alternative to that be to just park in Manley or Skytop? The shuttle drops you off about 300 yards from the Dome, with a walk on all flat ground. Having to walk up hills is a BS excuse to use for people who really don't want to be there anyways.

 

[syracuse95]

Theres plenty of nice seats in the bottom tier reasonably priced. The dome isnt that big and frankly there arent too many bad seats in the house. Youd be paying a lot more for a lot further away at other places. Dont worry about the $150 seats and just get yourself to the game in a $20 seat

That's true, there are lower level seats for under $151. But the problem isn't that there are no reasonably priced tickets. It's that there is no demand for the expensive ones.

We have the only stadium I've ever seen where the end zones and corners have more people than the lower sidelines. That tells me the prices for those seats are too high, or that there are too many seats at that price point. The solution is to either lower the price or reduce the supply.

I think the best solution is to collapse the preferred seating to include only seats inside the 25 yard lines. Make the current D preferred a standard season ticket. Make the current C the new D, and so on. Collapse A to the 15 seats either side of the 50. People can decide whether to keep their current seats at the lower price point, or keep making their donation and upgrade to better seats for the same price point. There should be no upper level preferred seating at all. Quite frankly, the dabate about pricing of single game preferred seems off to me. If you have much single game availability of preferred seats, then you have too many preferred seats.

We need to get the sidelines full. That's what shows on TV. That's what gets us ridiculed in national media. And to the casual fan sitting at home watching on tv, that's what makes them think "Why would I go to a game in that mausoleum?" Perception becomes reality.

It would be better for perception if the 30k that we are currently selling were all grouped on the sidelines, so the camera angles on TV gave the perception of a decent crowd. That perception might draw a few that watch on TV, if only a few, to come out to a game. Make their gameday experience fun. They come back. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[DPCuse]

And that's not even counting that every and I mean every POP warner organization in Syracuse (and surrounding areas) and Multiple HS football teams (including modifieds) Play on Saturdays during the day which I presume detracts from a large section of "TARGET" audience. i.e. football fans.

Ding, ding, ding. Your football families should be your target audience and SU's start times conflict with their games.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Just so everyone is on the same page, here is the current preferred seating chart:

http://carrierdome.com/media/documents/2013/4/Football_Preferred_Latest.pdf

 

[DPCuse]

How about closing off the corners of the upper deck for low attendance games. Leave those seats for the walk up crowd. Put a big orange tarp over them to reduce capacity and pack in the patrons who do attend to make it look more crowded.

Designate a few sections general admission and sell the tickets for $5/each. First come first serve.

Promote bus trips from Binghamton, Ithaca, Utica, Rochester, Buffalo, Cortland, Oneonta, Albany, Watertown, etc. Ticket and bus trip for $30 or so. At this point, pretty much give the ticket away and make some money on the concessions.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

How about closing off the corners of the upper deck for low attendance games. Leave those seats for the walk up crowd. Put a big orange tarp over them to reduce capacity and pack in the patrons who do attend to make it look more crowded.

Designate a few sections general admission and sell the tickets for $5/each. First come first serve.

Promote bus trips from Binghamton, Ithaca, Utica, Rochester, Buffalo, Cortland, Oneonta, Albany, Watertown, etc. Ticket and bus trip for $30 or so. At this point, pretty much give the ticket away and make some money on the concessions.

People have season tickets in the upper corners, including the Tops Family section.

 

[DPCuse]

People have season tickets in the upper corners, including the Tops Family section.

I'm one of them. Move those partrons closer to the middle for no extra charge.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I'm one of them. Move those partrons closer to the middle for no extra charge.

Buy tickets for $125.

Get to sit in a $225 or Preferred Section.

It's a good way to get people to stop buying $225 tickets or making Preferred donations.

 

[tipphill]

i discontinued my seasons two years ago. my son took them over and upgraded them. i did it because i got sick and tired of the same old bs from the daryl and the obvious lack of investment in the program by su. further i got tired of the coach speak about how we are going to this and that etc etc. su's hx is one of program neglect. it goes back to ben s. who suffered because archbold, pp as su did not keep up with arms race etc etc. they finally built a ipf not before they were coerced into doing so. su has been reactive rather than proactive and that has lead to less than mediocre seasons. i have been to both home games this year and i may attend another, as well as the virginia game. i am encouraged by the chancellor he appears to have vision (med school) and ad who maybe forward looking as well. syracuse is not a great sports town(ask the nats)people will come if we win, thats the bottom line. we are not a representative state school like so many others, and do not endear that level of loyalty. heck even buffalo has pre-game experiences and concerts that enhance the game day experience. i am a older fan so the gameday thing is not what gets me there. they should have sign making competition for dorms, greek houses etc that offer prizes sponsored by local and corporate businesses, throwback day events (card section),tell the band to learn some new songs. i tailgate at every game i go to. is it great, for me it is,but for most its fragmented, with no sense of place. i have bled orange since 1960---still do but it got tiresome after so many years. i have said enough

 

[rrlbees]

Just so everyone is on the same page, here is the current preferred seating chart: http://carrierdome.com/media/documents/2013/4/Football_Preferred_Latest.pdf

And those are the seats that go empty and seen on TV. The end zones and 3rd level nose bleeds aren't out issue. Its the preferred season tix sections which then become the expensive single game ticket.

 

[storange]

Very very few cnyers will spend 160 per ticket to sit upper deck. I think low in the upper deck are the best seats in the house ( and all the seats are good in the Dome) but its not the perception of the once or twice a year fan.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Something I found interesting while watching the Washington St./Rutgers game was when the announcer said that despite Washington St's rather poor record since Leach has taken over, they are still putting butts in the seat because of Leach's fun offense. I guess this is only further evidence to OttoinGrotto's point that offense sells. I find myself agreeing more and more with this idea. Obviously I want Shafer and Lester to succeed, and hopefully this isn't for a very long time, but if the choice ever presents itself again I would really want to see us go after a OC, or HC that uses the "Air Raid" or someone from that tree. I mean it's not like we don't have the built in advantages that could support it better then any other program in the country.

Offense not only "sells", but it wins games. If you have a team that can put 30 points on the board, you are not only going to be fun to watch, but you're going to be in most games. We have had SO many painful blowout losses over the last 10 years. Those suck the life out of a program, and just kill the entertainment value and "Fun" of going to the game in person.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Wouldn't the pretty easy alternative to that be to just park in Manley or Skytop? The shuttle drops you off about 300 yards from the Dome, with a walk on all flat ground. Having to walk up hills is a BS excuse to use for people who really don't want to be there anyways.

It takes forever to get from the parking lot to the Dome. And seriously, the Dome is steep. I have friends with season tickets in literally the top row of the upper deck at the halfcourt line for basektball. The sight lines are tremendous, but going up and down the stairs is dangerous. They ought to provide oxygen tanks and a few couches about 2/3 of the way up. You think twice about trying to get a couple beers at half time because of it.

 

[StanCuse44]

That's true, there are lower level seats for under $151. But the problem isn't that there are no reasonably priced tickets. It's that there is no demand for the expensive ones.

We have the only stadium I've ever seen where the end zones and corners have more people than the lower sidelines. That tells me the prices for those seats are too high, or that there are too many seats at that price point. The solution is to either lower the price or reduce the supply.

I think the best solution is to collapse the preferred seating to include only seats inside the 25 yard lines. Make the current D preferred a standard season ticket. Make the current C the new D, and so on. Collapse A to the 15 seats either side of the 50. People can decide whether to keep their current seats at the lower price point, or keep making their donation and upgrade to better seats for the same price point. There should be no upper level preferred seating at all. Quite frankly, the dabate about pricing of single game preferred seems off to me. If you have much single game availability of preferred seats, then you have too many preferred seats.

We need to get the sidelines full. That's what shows on TV. That's what gets us ridiculed in national media. And to the casual fan sitting at home watching on tv, that's what makes them think "Why would I go to a game in that mausoleum?" Perception becomes reality.

It would be better for perception if the 30k that we are currently selling were all grouped on the sidelines, so the camera angles on TV gave the perception of a decent crowd. That perception might draw a few that watch on TV, if only a few, to come out to a game. Make their gameday experience fun. They come back. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Agree w/ you on your points re "supply vs. demand" of preferred seating and associated pricing strategy. Too many empty sideline/preferred seats is an obvious issue that screams "asking too much $ for these seats in current market conditions" or "we have too many of these preferred seats available" (edit: and/or both). However, those first 10-15 rows in the upper-level, 30-ish yd line to 30-ish yd line, are great seats and worthy of A and B preferred seating designation.

 

[dollarbill44]

It takes forever to get from the parking lot to the Dome. And seriously, the Dome is steep. I have friends with season tickets in literally the top row of the upper deck at the halfcourt line for basektball. The sight lines are tremendous, but going up and down the stairs is dangerous. They ought to provide oxygen tanks and a few couches about 2/3 of the way up. You think twice about trying to get a couple beers at half time because of it.

I wonder if people who complain about these things have ever been to other big stadiums. I was in the closest lot to MetLife for the ND game last year. It took about 25 minutes to get to my seat from there. I've parked at Skytop and been in my seat in 15 minutes. I've been to games in DC, Baltimore, VaTech, UMD, Rutgers, Cleveland, Boston. It's always about the same time to your seat and I don't know any big stadium where the upper deck isn't steep and the Dome's upper deck is smaller than most. Not to mention, StubHub has $12 end zone seats for CMU, so you can walk downstairs in the Dome for dirt cheap.

This is just weak sauce you're bringing here.

 

[dollarbill44]

Buy tickets for $125.

Get to sit in a $225 or Preferred Section.

It's a good way to get people to stop buying $225 tickets or making Preferred donations.

Obviously, the pricing is out of whack if so many seats are empty. I would like to see the preferred donations de-linked from season tix anyway. Tie the donations to extra benefits, like better parking, special reserve buses from Manley, increased access to VIP services, complimentary pre-game buffets, coach/celeb alumni meet and greets, concessions/merchandise vouchers, etc. Pump them up with extra benes. There can still be donation tiers, where the more you donate, the more you get.

There can still be a season ticket reservation charge that goes along with a discount on a per-game basis for the tickets.

It shouldn't be rocket science to get more people in the prime seats without ticking off the long-time season holders.

 

[OttoMets]

Wouldn't the pretty easy alternative to that be to just park in Manley or Skytop? The shuttle drops you off about 300 yards from the Dome, with a walk on all flat ground. Having to walk up hills is a BS excuse to use for people who really don't want to be there anyways.

Yeah, I don't want to come across as a jerk to those who are less fortunate than I am, but life requires walking. A trip to the Dome doesn't require significantly more walking than anything else in life. For the majority of society, this shouldn't be a problem.

(If you've got a disability or you're 85 and don't walk distances or climb stairs, I'm sorry. But it doesn't much matter what SU does - attending a football game is going to be more difficult than it is for everyone else.)

 

[dollarbill44]

Yeah, I don't want to come across as a jerk to those who are less fortunate than I am, but life requires walking. A trip to the Dome doesn't require significantly more walking than anything else in life. For the majority of society, this shouldn't be a problem.

(If you've got a disability or you're 85 and don't walk distances or climb stairs, I'm sorry. But it doesn't much matter what SU does - attending a football game is going to be more difficult than it is for everyone else.)

Ah, but they make accomodations for that as well. I have done this three times (2x for my grandfather and once for my father-in-law). They won't bend over backwards, but we were allowed to drive right up to Gate A for lower level access and there was no proof needed. There are also some sweet locations for wheel-chaired fans.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[reedny]

There will be many people who donate that will stop if they are paying $100's for a ticket and joe blow shows up and buys the empty seat next to him for $35. There would be no inventive to donate.

Or worse, Joe and his drunk buddies wearing Clemson Jerseys.

 

[reedny]

Ah, but they make accomodations for that as well. I have done this three times (2x for my grandfather and once for my father-in-law). They won't bend over backwards, but we were allowed to drive right up to Gate A for lower level access and there was no proof needed. There are also some sweet locations for wheel-chaired fans.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

I did the same, brought my 80-something dad to a game. He was in a wheelchair, and we sat in the wheel chair area for a game. The Dome staff couldn't have been more helpful. My dad had a great time.