Buddy had 0 rebounds

[Consigliere]

We won the rebounding battle last night. Looking at total rebounds is a horrible way to judge the rebounding battle because made shots results in no rebound. Available rebounds is the critical stat, this is based on missed shots.

We missed 34 shots and had 9 offensive rebounds Oakland had 27 defensive rebounds (numerical difference is foul line rebounding)

Oak only missed 25 shots and had 7 offensive rebounds we got 20 defensive rebounds (numerical difference is foul line rebounding)

The problem is we gave Oakland 24 free throw attempts! And our front-line gave up 75% shooting on 16 attempts to their front-line and got into foul trouble doing it.

Another contributing factor is that we generally are among conference and national leaders in steals and forcing turnovers. I looked up at the rebounding totals about 8 minutes in last night and saw Oakland led us by 6 or 7. then I realized that they also had 9 turnovers - I think there were 4 on their first 5 possessions. No opportunity for a defensive rebound on those possessions. You show that clearly in your defensive rebound opportunity statistics above. Oakland had an defensive rebound efficiency of 73%. We were at 72%.

 

[Gabjon]

Another contributing factor is that we generally are among conference and national leaders in steals and forcing turnovers. I looked up at the rebounding totals about 8 minutes in last night and saw Oakland led us by 6 or 7. then I realized that they also had 9 turnovers - I think there were 4 on their first 5 possessions. No opportunity for a defensive rebound on those possessions. You show that clearly in your defensive rebound opportunity statistics above. Oakland had an defensive rebound efficiency of 73%. We were at 72%.

The 2 reason we play zone are:

1) To create steals and deflections.

2) Reduce shooting percentages by dictating who shoots and who we try prevent or limit shots attempts.

If we are not doing these 2 things we are going to struggle. Giving up high percentage shots at the rim is not good for any defense.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Effort is all on the player. I'm totally on board with everything else you are saying here, but there are times he doesn't even pretend to try on rebounds/loose balls.

Look, he's in a tough spot because he is our 3 pt specialist and the son of the legendary coach, but in my mind, that should make him work harder than everyone else to show he TRULY deserves the treatment. That's how I'd play it.

I don't think it is a lack of effort. I think often times it is a realistic understanding of his limitations. He probably sees the ball doesn't think he can get there and knows that if the person gets it before him and kicks it back out he definitely can't get back out again. He just isn't athletic enough that is the problem. He is doing the best he can do IMO. He should never have been playing 30 some minutes as a soph. I think in his mind he is the 4th guard year 1 and maybe plays 15 min or 20 min year 2 and 25 or so year 3 and 4. Maybe more as senior depending on recruiting. I don't think he ever though he would be playing 35-40 minutes a night.

 

[dollarbill44]

Agreed. That's his rep, but that's not the type of shooter he is right now. He misses inconsistently. Seems like I'm saying this after every third game, but it's worth repeating. When great shooters miss, it's not in the haphazard way that he does.

This is such a strange take. You're essentially saying that his made shots are luck. There's no way he can shoot at such a high percentage over the course of 11 games and 150+ shots due to luck.
When great shooters miss, it counts the same as when anybody else misses. You don't get a bonus point for bouncing off the rim 3 times vs 1.

 

[OttoMets]

This is such a strange take. You're essentially saying that his made shots are luck. There's no way he can shoot at such a high percentage over the course of 11 games and 150+ shots due to luck.
When great shooters miss, it counts the same as when anybody else misses. You don't get a bonus point for bouncing off the rim 3 times vs 1.

No, his made shots are because he's a good shooter.

Someone else said he's such a great shooter that it's a surprise when he misses. It isn't.

His footwork is poor and his misses are scattershot. Great shooters miss consistently when they miss, because they're nearly always stable and squared up. Buddy's waist-up mechanics are good but his pre-shot prep isn't. Because of this, he isn't yet a great shooter.

When great shooters miss, it's usually long or short. Their teammates know this and it makes offensive rebounding easier. When lesser shooters miss, the ball can go any which way. It really is a less valuable miss in that it's less likely to result in a continued possession.

 

[dollarbill44]

No, his made shots are because he's a good shooter.

Someone else said he's such a great shooter that it's a surprise when he misses. It isn't.

His footwork is poor and his misses are scattershot. Great shooters miss consistently when they miss, because they're nearly always stable and squared up. Buddy's waist-up mechanics are good but his pre-shot prep isn't. Because of this, he isn't yet a great shooter.

When great shooters miss, it's usually long or short. Their teammates know this and it makes offensive rebounding easier. When lesser shooters miss, the ball can go any which way. It really is a less valuable miss in that it's less likely to result in a continued possession.

Except we don't rebound, so a miss is a miss is a miss.

 

[OttoMets]

Except we don't rebound, so a miss is a miss is a miss.

Well there is that.

Maybe wild misses are actually better because they can go out of bounds and not jump-start another ugly transition defense breakdown for us.

 

[hoopsupstate]

well, not when you don't count the missed jumpers that SU doesn't rebound, which at the end of the game is the same thing as a turnover. If SU intentionally avoids rebounding to get back on defense (a defense that also doesn't lead to rebounds) it means that increased steals out of the zone and an efficient offense can overcome a rebounding deficit.

However, I don't think SU has the personnel this season to do so at a sufficient rate. I've posted before that when the zone is on, it is an absolute thing of beauty (like that thumping of #1 Indiana in the sweet sixteen), but a lot of times the sacrifices that need to be made elsewhere don't justify the continued use of an all-zone defense, which is why there are very few D1 teams that try to emulate the philosophy.

With that philosophy we had a lot of turnovers last night just on missed threes. I think that alone would have been 23 turnovers plus the seven we had. I guess you should also count misses inside as turnovers too. After watching Virginia and North Carolina shoot threes they have to be two of the most turnover teams in the country. If this is your way of bashing Buddy, I think you better find another reason. People may not like Buddy’s game, but he is easily one of our top players this year. I can be critical, but people need to be reasonable.

 

[Fly Rodder]

With that philosophy we had a lot of turnovers last night just on missed threes. I think that alone would have been 23 turnovers plus the seven we had. I guess you should also count misses inside as turnovers too. After watching Virginia and North Carolina shoot threes they have to be two of the most turnover teams in the country. If this is your way of bashing Buddy, I think you better find another reason. People may not like Buddy’s game, but he is easily one of our top players this year. I can be critical, but people need to be reasonable.

Ok, Mrs Boeheim.

 

[MadNY3]

I'm not bashing Buddy. Just observing a statistic.

I do think he's playing too many minutes.

He's taken six less shots on the season than Hughes.

And he's played the equivalent of a full game plus a few LESS than Elijah.

That also is a problem. A big one.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He's taken six less shots on the season than Hughes.

And he's played the equivalent of a full game plus a few LESS than Elijah.

That also is a problem. A big one.

I agree.

Didn't want to pile on though.

 

[MadNY3]

I agree.

Didn't want to pile on though.

You are nice. I am an azzwhole.

 

[shandeezy7]

He's taken six less shots on the season than Hughes.

And he's played the equivalent of a full game plus a few LESS than Elijah.

That also is a problem. A big one.

Who is our second option after Elijah? If you don't think it should be Buddy, then who do you think it should be? Who else is going to score for us?

 

[Gabjon]

We have three guys who are scoring right now, one of them is our PG the other 2 are roughly the same size Buddy and Hughes.

Who are you putting your best defender on Buddy or Hughes?

Who are you going to hedge your help to Buddy or Hughes?

Hughes needs to point forward a little more because he is a good ISO player and Buddy and JG3 are good catch and shoot guy.

Also we can run a high pick and roll with Hughes and Marek and put Sidibe at the dunker spot.

 

[br801]

Who is our second option after Elijah? If you don't think it should be Buddy, then who do you think it should be? Who else is going to score for us?

It seems Boeheim is shooting a lot out of necessity. Thankfully he's been pretty solid from deep overall (and a pretty efficient scorer), or this place would be going even more nuts. The same could be said for Girard, who is also been asked to handle the point as a freshman.

Buddy is clearly the second option on a team where Carey has gone down early, Goodine has looked lost on offense, Dolezaj remains a reluctant shooter, Sidibe is severely limited offensively, and Guerrier has shown promise at times but has struggled to get on the court after looking like he might be a starter from day one.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If the coach doesn't think rebounds are important, why would his son?

 

[Ghost]

Who is our second option after Elijah? If you don't think it should be Buddy, then who do you think it should be? Who else is going to score for us?

I feel like unless you've been sitting around for a decade wondering to yourself how and why Mookie Jones wasn't a 35-40 MPG player, and a Syracuse legend from the jump, AND likely the most underutilized player in NCAA history, this question should probably lead you to the answer.....absolutely not Buddy.

We don't really have a "second option" - we have a lot of misfit toys. We have one good options, and then we should be shuffling the rest about.

 

[shandeezy7]

I feel like unless you've been sitting around for a decade wondering to yourself how and why Mookie Jones wasn't a 35-40 MPG player, and a Syracuse legend from the jump, AND likely the most underutilized player in NCAA history, this question should probably lead you to the answer...absolutely not Buddy.

We don't really have a "second option" - we have a lot of misfit toys. We have one good options, and then we should be shuffling the rest about.

Appreciate your non-answer. No one else on this team can score consistently besides Eli, Buddy and Joe. It's not a great situation to be in but it's the one that we are in and it's why those three play the most minutes.

 

[MadNY3]

Who is our second option after Elijah? If you don't think it should be Buddy, then who do you think it should be? Who else is going to score for us?

First, it should not be Buddy shooting more than 2x anyone else.

Two, Girard. He needs more shots when he’s not the PG. Washington needs 10 mins a night with #35 on the bench and #11 at the 2.

The unfortunate opportunity is: our defense stinks this year. We don’t lose much with #10 in over #35. But #10 can activate other people on the floor whereas Buddy is as one-dimensional as a piece of paper.

 

[FloridaFan]

First, it should not be Buddy shooting more than 2x anyone else.

Two, Girard. He needs more shots when he’s not the PG. Washington needs 10 mins a night with #35 on the bench and #11 at the 2.

The unfortunate opportunity is: our defense stinks this year. We don’t lose much with #10 in over #35. But #10 can activate other people on the floor whereas Buddy is as one-dimensional as a piece of paper.

If ten cant shoot then they can just guard everyone else a bit tighter because of it. Buddy's flaws aside you have to put a good guard on him to try and lock him down which helps everyone

 

[MadNY3]

If ten cant shoot then they can just guard everyone else a bit tighter because of it. Buddy's flaws aside you have to put a good guard on him to try and lock him down which helps everyone

I would trade Girard to be in that situation any day of the week.

He has some handle and grit. Buddy’s % for 2s is 10% worse than his 3s.

Buddy needs less minutes to be more effective. Or less ineffective.

 

[IthacaMatt]

People may not like Buddy’s game, but he is easily one of our top players this year. I can be critical, but people need to be reasonable.

This is absolutely right. It's not Buddy's fault that he's playing a little more than maybe is good for him at this stage in his development as a player.

Last year, Buddy started the season very poorly and played himself out of the rotation by Thanksgiving, but shot his way back into it in January. This year, his shooting from game to game is maybe a bit more inconsistent than last year, but it's because so much more is being asked of him.

It is impacting his floor game, which he worked very hard on last year, to be playing so many minutes. Yes, he's always a threat to catch fire when he's out there, but he's less likely to do so if he's too gassed to go for loose balls or rebounds.

I want this team to be better so badly, but the negative recruiting - to be honest, it has had more of an effect than the sanctions themselves - is killing us. I find it hard to believe that every single kid in the top 75 is getting a bag to go to school.
Sure, maybe we can't compete for Mickey Dee's without an AAU sponsor relationship, and we have done the prudent thing and gone the New England Prep School route. Makes sense, if you can't compete at the highest level in one game, to try another.

But JB is just constructing such unbalanced rosters. He's trashing players too frequently in the press, even when they show some promise. I want to enjoy this more. The offense is better, but so was the offense with White, Lydon and Gillon. They played better defense than this year's model. And they were a better offense.

We have some good young players. They would make a good supporting cast, if we had either some upperclassmen or some elite high school talent coming in. This season is starting to remind me of 2 years ago, when some of these same players dragged themselves around the court in an injury-doomed season.