Buddy had 0 rebounds

[CuseFaninVT]

Southerland attempted over 6 3's a game in 2013. He played 34 games and shot 40% from 3. In 12 games he was less than 30%, including 6 games he made nothing. It happens a lot more than you think.

If cbbreference had Rautins game logs I would do his, but they don't so that is the best I can do.

How many did he shoot 20% or less? BB has 3 in 11 games played.

 

[Cusefan0307]

How many did he shoot 20% or less? BB has 3 in 11 games played.

9 in 34 games.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think people are calling him out for the Coach playing him too much. Everyone is quite enamored with his shooting. You are putting him in the mix with Battle, etc...which is where most people likely lose you.

I'm not sure all the players you are referencing lacked secondary skills...…...what are Buddy's secondary skills? His smarts?

And people lose me when they act like we have had teams that have rebounded and say his numbers are down which are the type of stuff our president would typically make up.

 

[OttoMets]

To that point

Vs. - 3pt percentage

UVA - 12.5
Colg - 60
Sea - 28.6
Cor - 31
Buck - 75
OkSt - 14.3
PSU - 37.5
Iowa - 20
GT - 46.2
Gtown - 53.8
Oak - 27.3

Seems like he either has it or doesn't. Gtown was a case of both in two halves.

This would be a very interesting exercise to do for "great" shooters - how many sub-30s do they mix in?

Unfortunately SU doesn't really have any superb shooters to check this against.

It's noon and I'm waiting on an e-mail from a client...off to orangehoops.org!

Rautins, 2010:

0% (0-4)
70%
40%
38%
75%
50%
60%
50%
29%
25%
38%
0% (0-3)
40%
17%
43%
50%
40%
29%
56%
0% (0-2)
33%
20%
25%
50%
17%
43%
56%
66%
25%
44%
13%
44%
43%
56%
50%

Looks like Rautins hit a wall around the same time Johnson got injured. More defensive attention.

That's probably more crappy shooting games than I'd have guessed, but I'm also not comfortable calling Rautins a "great" shooter. And I still remember him missing mostly short or long. No shots stuck between the rim and the backboard for him.

Wonder what Andrew White and Demetris Nichols did. Shumpert, too, maybe.

 

[OttoMets]

James Southerland shot 40% from three in the 12/13 season. He had 12 games with sub-30% from 3. Not SU, but Cam Johnson shot 46% from three last year for UNC and had 10 games with sub-30% from 3. Most shooters are streaky and go through ups and downs from game to game.

This I remember distinctly, which is why I wasn't even going to bother searching him. Totally a feast or famine year. He had a rotten stretch in the four weeks before the Big East, IIRC.

Again, though, he was a consistent misser in my memory. Often long, sometimes short, rarely to either side.

 

[Gabjon]

We won the rebounding battle last night. Looking at total rebounds is a horrible way to judge the rebounding battle because made shots results in no rebound. Available rebounds is the critical stat, this is based on missed shots.

We missed 34 shots and had 9 offensive rebounds Oakland had 27 defensive rebounds (numerical difference is foul line rebounding)

Oak only missed 25 shots and had 7 offensive rebounds we got 20 defensive rebounds (numerical difference is foul line rebounding)

The problem is we gave Oakland 24 free throw attempts! And our front-line gave up 75% shooting on 16 attempts to their front-line and got into foul trouble doing it.

 

[shandeezy7]

9 in 34 games.

So basically the exact same percentage of games as Buddy has so far this season. 27.2% of games below 20% for Buddy and 26.4% of games below 20% for Southerland.

 

[Ghost]

And people lose me when they act like we have had teams that have rebounded and say his numbers are down which are the type of stuff our president would typically make up.

I don't know...this rebounding debate has gotten too bizarre for me...anyway, you gave the wrong numbers, and then started this weird thing about Battle vs Buddy and their rebounding prowess...so I'm out! You win, Buddy is equally adept at rebounding as all past shooting guards at SU! Which is to say, he's not great at it, but definitely good enough considering our history!

 

[IthacaMatt]

But we didn't control the boards. There's stats on this Matt. At no point in 22 years have we ever been good at rebounding.

At just a glance, the 2010 team was 28th in the country in rebounding (out of 350 or so teams) and outrebounded our opponents by over 150 rebounds on the season.

 

[malpearl31]

And people lose me when they act like we have had teams that have rebounded and say his numbers are down which are the type of stuff our president would typically make up.

This thread is almost as good as the one after the Georgetown game that spun into feeding Sidibe more as a fix to our woes.

Guy says Buddy’s stats are down b/c he’s playing too much. You replied, “what stats are down? Shooting, scoring... everything is up!”. Guy replies that Buddy’s usage is too high... (which completely negates his original argument that Buddys stats are down b/c he’s playing too big a role).

What I love about this site is how much it makes me consistently laugh out loud.

 

[OttoMets]

White, 2017:

29%
50%
33%
43%
20%
44%
54%
27%
56%
57%
50%
0% (0-2)*
0% (0-5)
57%
44%
50%
25%
33%
56%
43%
50%
36%
38%
38%
42%
38%
14%**
33%
50%
13%
89%***
17%
78%
33%

*This was the St. John's game when the team quit like I'd never seen a Syracuse team quit before. Pretty sweet dunkfest for the Redmen, though.

**Remember that crazy Louisville game? Me neither. Not most particulars, at least. I remember it was one in a stretch of SU being inexplicably competitive against top-ten teams at the Dome after looking horrible on the road. I remember it being a Michael Stephens game. And I remember SU totally handing the game away in regulation and losing in a high-scoring overtime. What I didn't remember was White going 2-14. Yikes.

***Is 8-9 a better good game than 2-14 is a bad bad game? I think so.

I wonder if White deserves bonus points for shooting this well on what has to be a higher proportion of defended and off-balance shots.

Reliving this season via box scores was less enjoyable than sitting through it in person.

 

[Alsacs]

This thread is almost as good as the one after the Georgetown game that spun into feeding Sidibe more as a fix to our woes.

Guy says Buddy’s stats are down b/c he’s playing too much. You replied, “what stats are down? Shooting, scoring... everything is up!”. Guy replies that Buddy’s usage is too high... (which completely negates his original argument that Buddys stats are down b/c he’s playing too big a role).

What I love about this site is how much it makes me consistently laugh out loud.

You are a better fan than everyone congrats.

Enjoy the fan apathy instead from a lot of others.

 

[Cusefan0307]

At just a glance, the 2010 team was 28th in the country in rebounding (out of 350 or so teams) and outrebounded our opponents by over 150 rebounds on the season.

I don’t care about outdated counting stats. In 2010 we gave up offensive rebounds on 33% of our opponents misses. We were 258th in the country in defensive rebounding according to Ken Pomeroy.

 

[br801]

So basically the exact same percentage of games as Buddy has so far this season. 27.2% of games below 20% for Buddy and 26.4% of games below 20% for Southerland.

I think this is sort of the pattern you would see from most high volume 3-point shooters at any level.

 

[OttoMets]

I think this is sort of the pattern you would see from most high volume 3-point shooters at any level.

Would love to see this illustrated.

Mostly so I don't have to comb through old box scores wondering what percentage 3 out of 11 comes out to. (At least Andy Rautins did us the courtesy of mostly taking and making even numbers of three pointers.)

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't know...this rebounding debate has gotten too bizarre for me...anyway, you gave the wrong numbers, and then started this weird thing about Battle vs Buddy and their rebounding prowess...so I'm out! You win, Buddy is equally adept at rebounding as all past shooting guards at SU! Which is to say, he's not great at it, but definitely good enough considering our history!

It wasn’t meant to be a debate. It was meant for me to call people out on creating fake news on crap that never happened 10 years ago.

 

[patcuse]

You are a better fan than everyone congrats.

Enjoy the fan apathy instead from a lot of others.

Of course he is the better fan not much competition in this thread.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don’t care about outdated counting stats. In 2010 we gave up offensive rebounds on 33% of our opponents misses. We were 258th in the country in defensive rebounding according to Ken Pomeroy.

The average NCAA team this century has given up offensive rebounds on 31% of opponents' misses. So that's a 2% difference from statistical average.

A definitive ranking of college basketball’s best rebounding teams this decade

Since the 2000-01 season, there have been more than 6 million missed shots in Division I basketball. We looked at who collected the most of them to find the best rebounding team.

www.ncaa.com

I think it's amusing that first you say "we have never been a good rebounding team in 22 years" and then say to someone else "people lose me when they just make up numbers".
So I look up the numbers for the 2010 team, and now numbers don't matter? LOL Gotcha.

 

[Alsacs]

Of course he is the better fan not much competition in this thread.

I am polarizing no doubt so he/she not going to presume is a better poster than me.
I really don’t care about blowing smoke. I call things how I see them. Give praise when warranted, call chit out when I see it.

This season honestly doesn’t bother we all knew it was going to be tough. I am worried about the future. I don’t care if we go 18-13 or 16–15. I care about 2020-2021 being a team capable of being good.
I think this roster is being stunted so we can try and max out this year. That doesn’t help the program become back to what it was.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The average NCAA team this century has given up offensive rebounds on 31% of opponents' misses. So that's a 2% difference from statistical average.

A definitive ranking of college basketball’s best rebounding teams this decade

Since the 2000-01 season, there have been more than 6 million missed shots in Division I basketball. We looked at who collected the most of them to find the best rebounding team.

www.ncaa.com

I think it's amusing that first you say "we have never been a good rebounding team in 22 years" and then say to someone else "people lose me when they just make up numbers".
So I look up the numbers for the 2010 team, and now numbers don't matter? LOL Gotcha.

So that means you think we are a good rebounding team so far this year as we have only given up offensive rebounds on 32% of possessions? BTW look at our rebounding rates here since 2002. They are not good.

 

[malpearl31]

You are a better fan than everyone congrats.

Enjoy the fan apathy instead from a lot of others.

That’s nice of you to say, thank you.

I used to care much more about apathy, nowadays I couldn’t care less.

 

[IthacaMatt]

So that means you think we are a good rebounding team so far this year as we have only given up offensive rebounds on 32% of possessions? BTW look at our rebounding rates here since 2002. They are not good.

No, we're a poor rebounding team this year. But we have been pretty good at times in the last 20 years. The idea that we never rebound out of the zone just isn't statistically accurate.
If you out-rebound your opponents for the season by about 5 a game (155 in 35 games) and come in the top 8% in the country for total rebounds like I just pointed out for 2010, then that's a good rebounding team. I'm sorry but you're wrong. Get over it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

No, we're a poor rebounding team this year. But we have been pretty good at times in the last 20 years. The idea that we never rebound out of the zone just isn't statistically accurate.
If you out-rebound your opponents for the season by about 5 a game (155 in 35 games) and come in the top 8% in the country for total rebounds like I just pointed out for 2010, then that's a good rebounding team. I'm sorry but you're wrong. Get over it.

We are arguing apples to oranges Matt. We were a good offensive rebounding team that year. We were not a good defensive rebounding team and never have been in the zone. Look at my graph.

 

[br801]

Would love to see this illustrated.

Mostly so I don't have to comb through old box scores wondering what percentage 3 out of 11 comes out to. (At least Andy Rautins did us the courtesy of mostly taking and making even numbers of three pointers.)

Just pull up the game logs for some top NBA 3-point shooters and you'll see great variation in their performances.

 

[Consigliere]

In 40 minutes.

He had the same number of rebounds as a dead man.

That's... hard to do.

Not going to argue that Buddy is a decent rebounder. He's not. But with the desire to get out and run more you're seeing our guards release on the shot rather than crash the defensive glass. Since we are not setting the world on fire with our running game JB might want to rethink that.