Buddy suspended for Duke

[Bayside44]

Coleman, Seikaly and Brower going ham on Cornell…those are “throwing” punches. So much pearl clutching in this thread. Yes, he should have gotten a flagrant foul in game and probably been ejected. But the refs failed to call it or review the play afterwards. You disagree with Bilas? He thinks Buddy shouldn’t be suspended, and neither do I. ESPN playing that clip over and over and Greenberg and Ellis immediately advocating for a suspension made this a thing.

Really? Those guys are in their 50s.

Lets pull up some targeting hits from that era too!

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[Grbac]

Guys get punched, elbowed, scratched, tripped, stomped, all the time in basketball. It happens. It’s a physical sport.
The guy he “hit” isn’t mad and doesn’t think it warrants a suspension.

Where is the precedent that would justify this suspension? Does the ACC routinely dissect games to watch for suspension worthy actions?

If the ref missed it then that should be it. Do we go back and watch every game to issue uncalled fouls now?

This is nothing but the ACC overreacting to a viral slow motion clip of Buddy issuing a receipt on the court.

 

[OttoMets]

"He punched" (1) all punches are not equal (2) as if a "punch" as in this case is worse than an elbow (Wilkes's point)

Bilias is right.

Oy, I gotta let this one go. Maybe not yet, though.

On (1), we might agree to disagree here. In a game where refs struggle to use discretion (ahem, block/charge), it's easiest to have black and white rules. For disciplinary purposes, then, all punches are equal. Obviously the gut-punch is much less dangerous than a shot above the shoulders, a sidearm less dangerous than a haymaker, that's obvious. But nobody wants refs parsing those moves, so a punch is a punch.

(2), again, sure. Elbows can do more damage than punches, but if anything the pendulum has swung too far in penalizing elbows (in particular, I remember both Fab and Rautins picking up absurd flagrants when they were simply protecting the ball while getting handchecked). More often than not, an elbow is the consequence of a legitimate basketball move. A punch never is.

 

[rrlbees]

So refs are supposed to go to the monitor every time a player complains? Serious question.

Yes when said player is also on the ground. Something happened. I’ve seen them check the monitor for far less to see if something was intentional.

 

[xc84]

Oy, I gotta let this one go. Maybe not yet, though.

On (1), we might agree to disagree here. In a game where refs struggle to use discretion (ahem, block/charge), it's easiest to have black and white rules. For disciplinary purposes, then, all punches are equal. Obviously the gut-punch is much less dangerous than a shot above the shoulders, a sidearm less dangerous than a haymaker, that's obvious. But nobody wants refs parsing those moves, so a punch is a punch.

(2), again, sure. Elbows can do more damage than punches, but if anything the pendulum has swung too far in penalizing elbows (in particular, I remember both Fab and Rautins picking up absurd flagrants when they were simply protecting the ball while getting handchecked). More often than not, an elbow is the consequence of a legitimate basketball move. A punch never is.

So you agree not all punches are equal but you disagree with me in that you think they should all be treated the same way even though there is a vast range of differences.

as far as elbows, they are no more "legitimate" than what Buddy did. They are frequently intentional and you point out that because they use an elbow instead of a fist, they are "legitimate".

 

[Bayside44]

Yes when said player is also on the ground. Something happened. I’ve seen them check the monitor for far less to see if something was intentional.

Guys flop constantly. Might as well give soccer tops and cards to refs.

 

[senorpalmer]

Coleman, Seikaly and Brower going ham on Cornell…those are “throwing” punches. So much pearl clutching in this thread. Yes, he should have gotten a flagrant foul in game and probably been ejected. But the refs failed to call it or review the play afterwards. You disagree with Bilas? He thinks Buddy shouldn’t be suspended, and neither do I. ESPN playing that clip over and over and Greenberg and Ellis immediately advocating for a suspension made this a thing.

The glory days! Who could forget the rumble with Providence in the 87 Final 4? Not one suspension, of course the rules on fighting were less established back then if non-existent. The rules of course have changed since then.

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Fight is at the 43:00 mark in the video. Good times, DC throwing haymakers and catching one right in the face. Ah the memories….

 

[dollarbill44]

Every time we win big in an ACCT tournament game, something bad happens.

I know right? I mean, BOTH times!!!

 

[orange79]

View attachment 215387
Who asked this….?

 

[rrlbees]

Guys flop constantly. Might as well give soccer tops and cards to refs.

Guys do flop which has nothing to do with this. There’s no denying refs often go to the monitor to see if some act was flagrant or intentional. Many they don’t see and I assume it’s the opposing coach calling it out to them.

 

[Fly Rodder]

JFC, some you make me embarrassed to be an SU fan. Cut the homer crap. It’s sad.

 

[OttoMets]

So you agree not all punches are equal but you disagree with me in that you think they should all be treated the same way even though there is a vast range of differences.

as far as elbows, they are no more "legitimate" than what Buddy did. They are frequently intentional and you point out that because they use an elbow instead of a fist, they are "legitimate".

Yeah, pretty much that.

I think you're right that there are some vicious elbows (illegitimate in a basketball context) that are deserving of ejection/suspension, but the distinction is that the elbow can be a basketball move while a punch cannot. Because officials struggle when there's a gray area, punches are treated differently.

 

[dasher]

You honestly think buddy intentionally punched him?

yes

 

[Alsacs]

JFC, some you make me embarrassed to be an SU fan. Cut the homer crap. It’s sad.

Same people think fans who realize Buddy had to be suspended only think that because they hate Jim Boeheim.
Not that Buddy actually threw a punch and sadly in 2022 basketball that is a suspension.

If you hate JB then you think Buddy should be suspended. If you think JB js bigger than the program then you must complain about the suspension is unjust.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Buddy should be suspended, but I am bookmarking this thread until the day some suburban Duke player does something stupid, doesn’t get suspended, and one of our moron Duke sucking fans defends that player not getting a suspension like half this board did over Grayson Allen’s career.

 

[dollarbill44]

ask Jay Bilas

Does someone always need to ask Jay Bilas before forming an opinion? He's just another commentator with his own opinion. He talks sense sometimes and nonsense other times.

 

[dollarbill44]

yes

I can't even understand that some people here are trying to debate whether or not it was a punch.

 

[MikeSU02]

Anyone that doesn’t think that’s a punch should give it a go at a bar. See what the verdict is.

This thread is insane.

A good kid had a bad moment and got properly punished.

Root for the team on the court today and stop trying to justify a dumb decision by Buddy.

 

[xc84]

Does someone always need to ask Jay Bilas before forming an opinion? He's just another commentator with his own opinion. He talks sense sometimes and nonsense other times.

We all have opinions.

 

[xc84]

Anyone that doesn’t think that’s a punch should give it a go at a bar. See what the verdict is.

This thread is insane.

A good kid had a bad moment and got properly punished.

Root for the team on the court today and stop trying to justify a dumb decision by Buddy.

it's a "punch" and the reason he should not be suspended is ...see Jay Bilas

 

[Millhouse]

I just swung my arm sounds like something I'd desperately say between punching my brother and taking a beating as a kid

 

[CuseCactus]

A bad year. Capped off with the leading scorer and coach’s son taking himself out of an opportunity to Beat Duke.

Lame.

 

[OttoMets]

I just swung my arm sounds like something I'd desperately say between punching my brother and taking a beating as a kid

I'll tell you, if I pulled that "swung my arm" excuse as a kid, that lie/lack of accountability would have gone over way worse than the punch itself.

It scares me that some otherwise capable people are parents.

 

[xc84]

Yeah, pretty much that.

I think you're right that there are some vicious elbows (illegitimate in a basketball context) that are deserving of ejection/suspension, but the distinction is that the elbow can be a basketball move while a punch cannot. Because officials struggle when there's a gray area, punches are treated differently.

I disagree that an "elbow" is a basketball move. It is always a foul. You can't throw an elbow legally. But you are pointing out that illegal elbows are many times overlooked as part of the game and not treated the same way as a "punch" simply due to the part of the body used. I understand the gray area comment and agree somewhat. However, if you have the luxury of time to review for hours, I think it is prudent to consider the differences in "punches" like people do for elbows.

 

[OttoMets]

A bad year. Capped off with the leading scorer and coach’s son taking himself out of an opportunity to Beat Duke.

Lame.

I've got no ill-will toward Florida State, but I'd be the first one rooting Buddy Boeheim on to Beat Duke.

I always wished Cooney had tried to Beat Duke after that opposing player punched him (unpunished, obv) at midcourt near the end of the 2014 OT game.