Bye Bye Bo

[OrangePA]

No, it did not. Saying today that everything would be fine is 20-20 hindsight. At the time, there were great worries that the league would fall apart/be raided again/etc. Huge worries. If the Big East had totally fallen apart (something that was inherently possible), cobbling together a league of leftovers would not have provided the safe haven you believe it would. The move to accept the ACC's invitation was one that fit the University's profile, and that assured the entire athletic department's future, not just football.

I understand that that is how you see it, but I think the premise is simply not accurate.

The issue all along was football. That is, the instability within the BE was caused by football - re-alignment and the diverging interests between the BB schools and FB schools.

In fact, there was always tension between the BB and FB schools of the BE.

That tension obviously came to a head for SU two years ago.

But I don't think anybody was worried about the BB program unraveling or the future of the SU AD.

The move was about football and football TV revenue.

The move was not done to assure the entire AD's future. That just is not accurate.

That is not to say that the move has not helped the entire AD. But that was not the purpose of the move.

 

[CuseOnly]

This post is true in some respects but misses the overall in many respects.

Yes, the two situations cannot be compared.

But the basis for the post's conclusion is a bit off base.

Nebraska is a large public institution that represents an entire state. Its core structure and economic situation simply cannot be compared to that of Syracuse University.

Moreover, the notion that Syracuse University is not investing in the football program is obviously inaccurate.

The school joined the ACC in an effort to raise the football bar - that is reflective of a major commitment to the sport. And, the IPF is a major investment - clearly.

Is the IPF enough at this point? Probably not. But it's a major step forward.

And finally the suggestion that Syracuse University is "just another school that plays football" ignores the unique history of the program - a major football program in the history of the game - the success the program has had over the past 25 years and the commitment the school has made to competing at the highest level.

Will Syracuse University fire coaches in the same way that a Nebraska might? Clearly not. Economics prohibit it and the school culture and history prohibit it. We don't fire coaches at SU.

So, the post reflects in many ways the misperceptions that many outsiders have about the football program at Syracuse University.

Having said that, it seems that Nebraska made a mistake in firing a guy - or refusing to do what he needed done - who won nine games seven years in a row. The last time Nebraska did that - Frank Solich - the new coach - Callahan - was a disaster.

Yes, The University of Nebraska is a state school in a state where the entire population equals that of Erie and Monroe Counties in NY.

I agree about the differences in commitment between the 2 schools to football though.

Said it 1000 times, until SU takes football seriously and spends more dollars on facilities and coaching like other schools do, we will remain where we are trying to catch lightning in a bottle every 20 years.

 

[orange79]

I understand that that is how you see it, but I think the premise is simply not accurate.

The issue all along was football. That is, the instability within the BE was caused by football - re-alignment and the diverging interests between the BB schools and FB schools.

In fact, there was always tension between the BB and FB schools of the BE.

That tension obviously came to a head for SU two years ago.

But I don't think anybody was worried about the BB program unraveling or the future of the SU AD.

The move was about football and football TV revenue.

The move was not done to assure the entire AD's future. That just is not accurate.

That is not to say that the move has not helped the entire AD. But that was not the purpose of the move.

We agree to disagree. Was football important? No doubt. Did the University want to be dangling in the wind without a viable conference? No, they didn't. A viable conference affects all sports, not just football. I'm not saying football didn't matter. Your last two statements are just not accurate, IMO. You disagree. I get it.

 

[Stern]

Had SU remained in the Big East, SU BB and the other SU Olympic sports would have done just fine.

This statement you made above shows you are lost on this issue. Totally lost!

 

[Stern]

No, it did not. Saying today that everything would be fine is 20-20 hindsight. At the time, there were great worries that the league would fall apart/be raided again/etc. Huge worries. If the Big East had totally fallen apart (something that was inherently possible), cobbling together a league of leftovers would not have provided the safe haven you believe it would. The move to accept the ACC's invitation was one that fit the University's profile, and that assured the entire athletic department's future, not just football.

Absolutely 100% correct. It was about more $$$. Bringing money to improve the Olympic sports as well as Football and Basketball. Staying in the old Big East would have been a slow and painful death to every sport across the board.

 

[rrlbees]

The decision to join the ACC was a football decision. The money will flow from the ACC - yes that's true. But if the school had not decided to compete at the highest level - to further invest in the program - it would not have made the move it made. With the decision to join the ACC, came the school's commitment to set out on a new major investment in football. That is why the IPF was built. And that is why the school will continue to invest in the program at much higher levels than in the past. If the school had not first decided to escalate its commitment to football, it would not have joined the ACC. An outsider would not understand the dynamic.

Dead on. The money is the by product of conference moves which is driven by football. We, like most of the schools that changed conferences, did so for football.

 

[Alsacs]

What if Grob never happened? http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/31/sports/ncaafootball/31cuse.html?_r=0

That article makes me feel like Nancy Kerrigan after she was attacked at the 1994 US skating championship. WHY? Why didn't Gross go all-in for Pelini.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I dunno, weren't we all blindsided by Marrone leaving and taking most of the staff? Did that happen after we jumped to the ACC or before? I don't remember to be honest. A lot has changed in just 2 years, this might be a good time for Gross to step up and take a lead with the football program instead of taking a wait and see approach.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Well, the school is spending $17 million or so on the IPF.

That means something.

Jeezus...Don't confuse the issue by throwing facts into the discussion! What is wrong with you?

Don't you know this board if for people ,with absolutely no insight into SU's decision making process, to throw out their wild-ass remarks that are not based in any kind of reality?

 

[OmahaCuse]

Play 7 or 8 home games each year. Average 90% wins against teams with sub .500 records and a 40% win percentage against teams with north of .500 win percentage. They have been worked my Minnesota for example last two years. They have very a average talent and have for 7 years. If we were healthy and played them on a neutral field we beat em. Smart move byNU as can't look at record as it's misleading. The kicker was is the guy is a complete ass.

 

[rrlbees]

That article makes me feel like Nancy Kerrigan after she was attacked at the 1994 US skating championship. WHY? Why didn't Gross go all-in for Pelini.

Pelini wasn't really interested. That article caused a bunch of unfounded rumors. The one thing that article does point out is the model Gross wanted. Defensive coach with pro and college experience.

 

[rrlbees]

I understand that that is how you see it, but I think the premise is simply not accurate. The issue all along was football. That is, the instability within the BE was caused by football - re-alignment and the diverging interests between the BB schools and FB schools. In fact, there was always tension between the BB and FB schools of the BE. That tension obviously came to a head for SU two years ago. But I don't think anybody was worried about the BB program unraveling or the future of the SU AD. The move was about football and football TV revenue. The move was not done to assure the entire AD's future. That just is not accurate. That is not to say that the move has not helped the entire AD. But that was not the purpose of the move.

Correct, the issue was football. We needed a new home for football to increase revenue. The bball program would make the same monies regardless of conference. Football is all that mattered. Even all these conference TV decisions are football related.

 

[CuseOnly]

The move to the ACC will bring greatly enhanced revenue - on the basis of football TV revenue.

The decision to go ACC was a football decision.

Before it could make the decision to join the ACC, the University had to first decide whether it wanted to remain a major football program. It had to decide whether it was willing to make the kind of enhanced financial investment needed to compete at a major, big-time college level.

In joining the ACC, the school agreed to make that financial commitment to the football program - infrastructure, coaching salaries and the like.

It could have taken a different path. It could have decided to de-emphasize football. It could have decided to go to the American Conference or stay in the Big East while competing as a football independent. Those moves would not have hurt the BB program. The Big East Conference has certainly not hurt Villanova BB.

Many on this board were not around when the studies of football de-emphasis were undertaken in the past. The studies were very serious.

The 1970 study undertaken by John Corbally truly hurt Schwartzwalder's ability to recruit and was very much responsible for the ensuing problems that the program had.

So, the move to the ACC, though certainly helpful to the other sports, was not a basketball decision or a soccer decision or a field hockey decision. It was a football decision.

Coach Boeheim has made that clear on many occasions.

In other words, the premise of the original post - that Syracuse University is "just another school that happens to play football" - is both inaccurate historically and inaccurate from a contemporary financial and competitive standpoint and is reflective of a fundamental misunderstanding of the school and its thinking over the years.

Totally disagree with this part of your statement. It takes a lot more than spending $10.5 million on an IPF to compete in P5 D1 Football. To this point, the SU BOT and admin has NOT shown a commitment to be a major college football program. They have had nearly 3 years to do so since announcing the move to the ACC.

Did they think that the IPF (a building) was going to catapult SU to the top of the ACC by itself?

Wake Forest announced a new IPF to be built next year too, nicer and more expensive than SU's...now what, we will be even with them now too.

 

[CanadianSU]

Can't compare the situations at all. Nebraska is a "football school" that invests in football and their expectations are to win the conference, get to the playoff, and win a National Championship..EVERY YEAR!. Syracuse is just another school that happens to have a football program, that doesn't invest in football, that is happy with just making a bowl game and getting a couple national TV games a year. It's night and day and you can't compare the two situations.

Nebraska is looking for a head coach who will stay there till he retires or dies (whichever happens first) and if he does well and they will pay him handsomely. Syracuse is looking for a guy who will come cheap and they know will use this as a stepping stone job to an NFL job or a bigger/better college job.

Then why do you complain abou Shafer 24/7 if you know cuse will never pay a HC?

Who would you like to see be the next football coach here? I think your true beef is with the university for not spending money rather than at Shafer himself..

 

[TampaLaker]

There are 2 Florida schools (one with a job opening already and one who might have one open soon) who will be all over Bo. I could see Pelini at Miami or UF. Both would cut off their left arms to have 9 win seasons consistently!

9 wins per year at UF would put Pelini in the same situation at UF as he just left at Nebraska. UF fans here believe they should be a 1-2 loss team each year at most.

 

[cuseguy]

http://deadspin.com/nebraska-player...source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Nebraska players are pissed.

 

[rrlbees]

Totally disagree with this part of your statement. It takes a lot more than spending $10.5 million on an IPF to compete in P5 D1 Football. To this point, the SU BOT and admin has NOT shown a commitment to be a major college football program. They have had nearly 3 years to do so since announcing the move to the ACC. Did they think that the IPF (a building) was going to catapult SU to the top of the ACC by itself? Wake Forest announced a new IPF to be built next year too, nicer and more expensive than SU's...now what, we will be even with them now too.

Done of you guys even know how facilities get built.

 

[CuseOnly]

Done of you guys even know how facilities get built.

They rely on donations for the majority of the funding until they reach a certain level or % before starting construction, yes we know bees.

It is working very well I might add.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Done of you guys even know how facilities get built.

That's a pretty general statement. Just because very few of us can write checks for $10 million bucks we still might have a slight idea.

 

[rrlbees]

They rely on donations for the majority of the funding until they reach a certain level or % before starting construction, yes we know bees. It is working very well I might add.

Then why keep saying SU won't build something or another school will blah blah blah?

 

[rrlbees]

That's a pretty general statement. Just because very few of us can write checks for $10 million bucks we still might have a slight idea.

And how many times are people going to complain about the BOT and not spending money on facilities while the other schools do? Tells me some people have no idea or they just like to complain about something and blame the wrong people.

 

[orange79]

http://deadspin.com/nebraska-player...source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Nebraska players are pissed.

Yeah, notifying your largest and most visible team (or any team for that matter) that your coach has been fired by email (or text) is not the way to go. Oh Lord

 

[NKR1978]

I'm not convinced at all that SU is committed to major college football. I'm taking a wait and see approach with the new chancellor.

It seems SU is doing just enough that it can say with a mostly straight face that it cares about winning at football.

 

[Stern]

Then why do you complain abou Shafer 24/7 if you know cuse will never pay a HC?

Who would you like to see be the next football coach here? I think your true beef is with the university for not spending money rather than at Shafer himself..

You can hire a HC who has a clue. Doesn't have to be a big name or make big bucks. There are caches in the MAC and CUSA who aren't getting paid big bucks but they are good at their job

 

[CuseOnly]

Then why keep saying SU won't build something or another school will blah blah blah?

That approach works for other schools, it doesn't work for SU. Is that not obvious?

We don't have the alumni base or Phil Knight to rely on. They need to change their approach and do something different or we will fall farther behind.

The death knell of may companies have been the words "that is the way we have always done it". Make no mistake, an athletics department is a company.