Can anyone watch these games and still think our d is the problem?
- Thread starter Millhouse
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kingottoiii
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Yes. These teams you are watching have good Os. We make really bad BE Os look like these good Os. The D is part of the problem. The O is part of the problem. Special teams is part of the problem. Talent is part of the problem. Coaching is part of the problem.
OrangeXtreme
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College football has become the NBA ... nobody plays D anymore.
are you watching how many of the plays are being made by players as opposed to plays being made by the team? how many times do you recall in the entire season our players making someone miss turning 5 yds into 20? you put Bailey in that Oregon offense and they struggle. Look at WV when they dont have elite guys making plays they struggle.
why we cant seem to find any elite players is something we have to worry about but its not a short term issue.
why we cant seem to find any elite players is something we have to worry about but its not a short term issue.
Millhouse
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fwiw syracuse was 66th in defense
oklahoma state was 106
oregon was 63
houston was 65
they beat defenses ranked 25, 8, and 10
it was a good day for gimmick offenses yesterday. it's just one day, i know.
even the georgia michigan state game had a lot of points (not a lot of yards though). two top 5 defenses ended 27-27 in regulation
the people who want to win with defense are the ones most likely to notice the inherent disadvantages we have compared to the teams that do manage to win with defense. when it comes to every other expectation it's "we're not alabama we're not LSU" but when it comes to wanting mistake free offense and great defense, those same people think that's something we can strive for most years. it's silly.
oklahoma state was 106
oregon was 63
houston was 65
they beat defenses ranked 25, 8, and 10
it was a good day for gimmick offenses yesterday. it's just one day, i know.
even the georgia michigan state game had a lot of points (not a lot of yards though). two top 5 defenses ended 27-27 in regulation
the people who want to win with defense are the ones most likely to notice the inherent disadvantages we have compared to the teams that do manage to win with defense. when it comes to every other expectation it's "we're not alabama we're not LSU" but when it comes to wanting mistake free offense and great defense, those same people think that's something we can strive for most years. it's silly.
IthacaBarrel
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People here still believe that football is being played in the late seventies and early 80's. Barry Switzer is not at Oklahoma anymore!!! I don't know how much college football people watch on this forum. It's much like the hop board where anyone who averages 14 points a game is an NBA lottery pick or first rounder!! I don't know how much NBA basketball people actually watch, probably the same people who try to tell others that LeBron James isn't all that good
Bayside44
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Yeah, let's give more snaps to a team that is really lacking in offensive talent. The run and shoot with Alec Lemon and Van Chew will set the world on fire.
The team needs talent, and more of it. Think of the NCAA hoop games we've lost through the years to lesser teams. Every one of them shortened the game to deny us the ball. That's all Marrone has tried to do. Agreed that it's painful to watch but Nassib chucking it downfield to turf isn't the recipe for success either.
The team needs talent, and more of it. Think of the NCAA hoop games we've lost through the years to lesser teams. Every one of them shortened the game to deny us the ball. That's all Marrone has tried to do. Agreed that it's painful to watch but Nassib chucking it downfield to turf isn't the recipe for success either.
Millhouse
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the point of this post wasn't what the offense should do with nassib (hint sit him down and give him laminated cards) it's pretty obvious in the original post and a thousand others that I don't want nassib running any fast or slow offense next year
the point was for the dimwits here who blame the defense because gasp they weren't good at keeping teams under 25 points.
You could put Bailey on that Oregon offense (not the principal RB, but somewhere). The problem is that we didn't have anyone other than Bailey; Oregon has speed everywhere, a versatile and mobile QB, and waves of skill guys as good or better than Bailey.
To put up points, we need (bare minimum) a couple of 4-star skill players in each recruiting class.
IthacaBarrel
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I am doubtful that without a much larger comittment from Syracuse University that we will every be competitive at that level. It's like paying for a honda civic and expecting to hang in a race with a Roush mustang. we can talk about assistants, scheme, etc etc, the problems are everywhere with this program. money, direction, coaching, players, scheme, etc etc.
Why is Oklahoma St, Oregon, Wisconsin, even Stanford good? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Why is Oklahoma St, Oregon, Wisconsin, even Stanford good? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
IthacaBarrel
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where are Stanford's 4 star skill speed guys? It's their O line, to run a scheme like Syracuse wants to run, you need an NFL O Line and an accurate thrower of the football. Stanford's power running game is exceptional and Syracuse needs the most help at QB and O line. Standford has NO SPEED guys
Bayside44
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There's plenty of blame to go around. That UConn game shows it. Coach P ran it straight at his former star linebacker's guys b/c he knew that they couldn't stop a lightly recruited UConn young QB. Think about that.
And, there are plenty here who thought that last season we should've gone all out spread / fast break whatever you want to call it. And we clearly had the talent for next to none of that.
And, there are plenty here who thought that last season we should've gone all out spread / fast break whatever you want to call it. And we clearly had the talent for next to none of that.
Millhouse
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if you look at the defensive side, all those elite athletes at these great programs aren't stopping people
my point was as much "wow, these great teams can't stop anyone either" as it was to say, "look at oregon/osu/houston offense, let's do one of those!"
it's way easier to have a really good year with offense than defense. maybe you have a tough time getting into the BCS title game but how about we cross that bridge when we get there.
IthacaBarrel
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college scheme, you need an accurate QB or one who has really good speed. ( different version of the spread)
NFL scheme you need really good O Line and an accurate QB?
Geeze, what are we missing????
NFL scheme you need really good O Line and an accurate QB?
Geeze, what are we missing????
Millhouse
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coach p benched a crappy qb for a younger guy who can run around a little. that's what we should do.
it's really dumb for you guys to cling to a game where the defense gave up 311 yards and had 5 takeways
newsflash we don't have the talent for anything on offense including what they do now. the offense sucked and it didn't work. at some point, we need to install whatever the it is that they want to run. but instead we'll trot out nassib again, he'll do great in september against teams and the meatheads will be shocked when they go 1 and 6 in conference and 0 for november. year 4 of "how can you expect them to run an offense that just about everyone else can"
Chip
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Our defense lost a lot, tried to put a bunch of inexperienced guys out there, it caught up to them. But they will be better. They have a system in place, and it seems like they can somewhat recruit for it.
As for the offense, who knows. Once Marrone A) dumped Spence, and more importantly, B ) told the lunch group this year that the next best QB on the roster would run a different system, I gave up on thinking there's a plan in place.
As for the offense, who knows. Once Marrone A) dumped Spence, and more importantly, B ) told the lunch group this year that the next best QB on the roster would run a different system, I gave up on thinking there's a plan in place.
44cuse
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I wrote 4 star skill guys (not necessarily "speed") -- and Stanford has some of those, including a 5 star QB, talent at TE and power-runners, and an OL.
It is a fair debate about where SU needed the most help. We could have won 2 more games this year (Rutgers & UConn) with another RB and one real good WR; or a couple of LBs with size and experience; or a serious pass rusher to pair with Chandler. Lots of needs.
But I don't see the Stanford model ("NO SPEED") as one we should adopt.
K
kingottoiii
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Only SEC like talent on D will stop the top Os, which is what you were watching yesterday. But an average D should be able to stop the UConns of the world, who despite 5 TOs and a QB who never throws the ball put up 28 points. BTW RU was 3-3 in common games this year getting 332.17 ypg. While SU was 1-5 getting 362.83 ypg. You act like we had the worst O in the BE (which is false) and that was why we were 1-6 in conference. Yet look at all the O All BE members. How does that happen? The team is broke right now in EVERY facet of the game. We need to fit a lot.
K
kingottoiii
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That is what I don't get. Run your damn system. What he is running now is not working. So why use it? Dumb. If you run a Spread O and take away the zone read because of Nassib, you will still get better results that what we did run. And the kids get to practice and develop in the system. Now they are learning something they won't use. Isn't that the same as firing an OC and hiring a new one? Except you are firing the system?
Millhouse
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I've never said we were the worst offense in the big east. They're in the bottom quarter in the country. I'm careful about this stuff. I think a lot of dolts on the board that watch the NFL and Syracuse games (and by extension, Big East teams) think "eh the offense is so so". The Big East sucks. who cares if some 100th ranked offense happens to be in our conference
If we're broken on defense, then half the country is broken on defense.
dollarbill44
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...the fans are part of the problem too.
KevMonstah
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Syracuse doesn't, and hasn't, run a system that takes advantage of the Dome at all. And as far as needed 4* or 5* talent, as Denis Leary would say, two words:
Boise State
They put in a system that works for them, to the point that they are a legitimate BCS contender every year. And while they are getting talent now, I'd be willing to bet their initial BCS team which beat Oklahoma was not composed of 4/5 star recruits. They ran a system that put a premium on scoring a lot. You score a lot, you put a ton of pressure on the other team to keep up. That take the opponent out of their gameplan, and that allows a defense, which may not be great, to just attack, because they won't have to worry about the run as much.
There is no reason that Syracuse couldn't attempt to do this. Take advantage of the Dome track. Even more, take advantage of the opponents. That style of offense won't work well in a league where the top 25 has half the league. They could do this in the Big East.
Kev
Boise State
They put in a system that works for them, to the point that they are a legitimate BCS contender every year. And while they are getting talent now, I'd be willing to bet their initial BCS team which beat Oklahoma was not composed of 4/5 star recruits. They ran a system that put a premium on scoring a lot. You score a lot, you put a ton of pressure on the other team to keep up. That take the opponent out of their gameplan, and that allows a defense, which may not be great, to just attack, because they won't have to worry about the run as much.
There is no reason that Syracuse couldn't attempt to do this. Take advantage of the Dome track. Even more, take advantage of the opponents. That style of offense won't work well in a league where the top 25 has half the league. They could do this in the Big East.
Kev
