CBS Sports ranks us 12th in the ACC for next year

[reedny]

Howard, Battle, Thompson, Chukwu and Moyer have all had at least one year (two of them several years) learning the 2-3.

You also slag off 3 star recruits referring to Thorpe. 3-stars can develop into good players. Remember that players like Rautins, Southerland, Keita, and I believe even Triche were 3 stars. And those are only recent guys. Lots more in our history. Don't obsess over the star system when evaluating players. Recent ACC guys like John Collins, Matt Farrell, Ben Lammers were all rated below 200 coming out of high school. Wasn't Buddy Hield too?

Good post. In fact, if we had 3-star Lammers last year -- not only would we played better during the regular season (he's a good center who can defend and score, allowing TL at PF where he belongs), we're also in the tournament.

 

[Sherman20]

Not to burst your Orange bubble but the way you win NC is with great play from junior and senior guards. If this was Thorpe's fourth season playing 2-3 zone you may have point. But the problem is not intelligence in learning the zone. The problem playing the top of the 2-3 zone requires insane levels of conditioning to do it right. It takes a HUGE amounts of effort to swing from one side of the court to the next. Last year Gillon ran out of gas lots of times. I hope Thorpe has more endurance than Gillon.


You have to understand something. Like many people, every time I watch the Orange play I think they are going to win at the beginning of every game. However, objectively speaking, just based on our guard talent, this team has a lot to prove in terms of where the scoring is going to come from. Thompson and Battle will have to make HUGE leaps in scoring for this team to do really well.

As I said in my original post that you responded too but left out when you quoted me: We shall see.

I was just trying to point out that we have more guys with experience playing the zone than your post indicated. I know Howard is a big question mark on offense/at PG. But he'll have 3 years of experience playing the zone. Battle will be in his second next year and has good lateral quickness and is a talented, focused defender. They both have great length. We could be very good at the top of the zone defensively. If Howard can improve his PG play so he actually stays on the floor, we should be good at the top of the zone. Re: Thorpe: yes, a year of experience in the zone is most ideal, but we've had other first-year guards come in and play it well in the past--Ennis, Triche, McNamara, Edelin, Hart. Plus some sophomores who didn't play much as frosh (MCW, Scoop) and RS freshman (Cooney). Thorpe has the advantage of having good length and being very athletic and strong. I just don't see us finishing 12th in the conference.

 

[LaggyJon]

Howard, Battle, Thompson, Chukwu and Moyer have all had at least one year (two of them several years) learning the 2-3.

You also slag off 3 star recruits referring to Thorpe. 3-stars can develop into good players. Remember that players like Rautins, Southerland, Keita, and I believe even Triche were 3 stars. And those are only recent guys. Lots more in our history. Don't obsess over the star system when evaluating players. Recent ACC guys like John Collins, Matt Farrell, Ben Lammers were all rated below 200 coming out of high school. Wasn't Buddy Hield too?

You aren't wrong, but just to devil's advocate a little:

This is kind of a cousin of the "only half of NFL starting quarterbacks were 1st round picks" argument that pops up from time to time. It may be true, but that ignores the denominator: there are a couple of dozen guys at any given time drafted as first round QBs, and hundreds of them drafted in later rounds or undrafted. Even if there's an even split in raw numbers, you're talking about something like a 50% chance that your 1st round QB becomes a starter, and a low single digit percent chance that the other group does.

That's basically how it works with the recruiting rankings/stars. They aren't gospel, but it's more likely that a 4* guy makes it than a 3*, and same with 5* over 4*s. Identifying Hield, Steph Curry or any of the other crazy outlier 3* guys doesn't really change that.

Post-NC, I believe this is a complete list of our 3* scholarship recruits: Buss Patterson, Chino Obokoh, Baye Keita, Brandon Triche, James Southerland, Sean Williams, Devin Brennan-McBride, Arinze Onuaku, Andy Rautins. Definitely a bunch of key guys for us, a few busts, but not a lot of guys that we got huge contributions from as underclassmen.

That's part of why I'm tempering expectations for this season. I'm pretty excited about the potential for the team overall, but out of 10 scholarship players we have 4 guys that have ever played a single minute for us and only 3 upperclassmen, only one of whom has logged any significant minutes for us (and, for reasons covered elsewhere, Mr. Howard doesn't totally scream "veteran team leader"). I don't know if we've ever had a team with so little experience, and when we've had inexperienced teams previously, we were usually relying on more 5*/high-4* caliber young guys than we have now.

Maybe Thorpe seamlessly transitions to the zone, maybe Chukwu's eye is healed and he gives us quality minutes, maybe Frank shakes off last year and fulfills his potential, maybe Thompson makes big strides on defense, maybe those Dolezaj highlights shot on a 2006 Motorola Razr translates to high-level NCAA play immediately. There's a chance enough of those go well that we finish in the top half of the ACC, but I think it's more likely that we struggle a bit, with some more :bang: OOC losses as the team tries to gel early. 12th is probably low (I think there's a good chance we outperform expectations in the ACC given our schedule) but it's hardly the hottest take on earth.

Of course, nothing would make me happier than being wrong.

 

[GooseMutt]

You aren't wrong, but just to devil's advocate a little:

This is kind of a cousin of the "only half of NFL starting quarterbacks were 1st round picks" argument that pops up from time to time. It may be true, but that ignores the denominator: there are a couple of dozen guys at any given time drafted as first round QBs, and hundreds of them drafted in later rounds or undrafted. Even if there's an even split in raw numbers, you're talking about something like a 50% chance that your 1st round QB becomes a starter, and a low single digit percent chance that the other group does.

That's basically how it works with the recruiting rankings/stars. They aren't gospel, but it's more likely that a 4* guy makes it than a 3*, and same with 5* over 4*s. Identifying Hield, Steph Curry or any of the other crazy outlier 3* guys doesn't really change that.

Post-NC, I believe this is a complete list of our 3* scholarship recruits: Buss Patterson, Chino Obokoh, Baye Keita, Brandon Triche, James Southerland, Sean Williams, Devin Brennan-McBride, Arinze Onuaku, Andy Rautins. Definitely a bunch of key guys for us, a few busts, but not a lot of guys that we got huge contributions from as underclassmen.

That's part of why I'm tempering expectations for this season. I'm pretty excited about the potential for the team overall, but out of 10 scholarship players we have 4 guys that have ever played a single minute for us and only 3 upperclassmen, only one of whom has logged any significant minutes for us (and, for reasons covered elsewhere, Mr. Howard doesn't totally scream "veteran team leader"). I don't know if we've ever had a team with so little experience, and when we've had inexperienced teams previously, we were usually relying on more 5*/high-4* caliber young guys than we have now.

Maybe Thorpe seamlessly transitions to the zone, maybe Chukwu's eye is healed and he gives us quality minutes, maybe Frank shakes off last year and fulfills his potential, maybe Thompson makes big strides on defense, maybe those Dolezaj highlights shot on a 2006 Motorola Razr translates to high-level NCAA play immediately. There's a chance enough of those go well that we finish in the top half of the ACC, but I think it's more likely that we struggle a bit, with some more :bang: OOC losses as the team tries to gel early. 12th is probably low (I think there's a good chance we outperform expectations in the ACC given our schedule) but it's hardly the hottest take on earth.

Of course, nothing would make me happier than being wrong.

Huh?

 

[Oráiste]

I think there is agreement on who the top 4 teams will be, as well as the bottom 3. The 8 teams left over will be a scrum; you might as well put their names into a bag and pull them out randomly. Last year, 3 games separated the 5th and 11th place teams. I would expect similar this year.

The thing that bothered me most about the article was the section "Three Biggest ACC Headlines of the Offseason."
I think SU blowing up their succession plan and keeping the hall of fame coach who will soon become the 2nd winningest in history (again) is a bigger story than either Grayson Allen or Cam Johnson

 

[Dave85]

I was just trying to point out that we have more guys with experience playing the zone than your post indicated. I know Howard is a big question mark on offense/at PG. But he'll have 3 years of experience playing the zone. Battle will be in his second next year and has good lateral quickness and is a talented, focused defender. They both have great length. We could be very good at the top of the zone defensively. If Howard can improve his PG play so he actually stays on the floor, we should be good at the top of the zone. Re: Thorpe: yes, a year of experience in the zone is most ideal, but we've had other first-year guards come in and play it well in the past--Ennis, Triche, McNamara, Edelin, Hart. Plus some sophomores who didn't play much as frosh (MCW, Scoop) and RS freshman (Cooney). Thorpe has the advantage of having good length and being very athletic and strong. I just don't see us finishing 12th in the conference.

I never said there was no hope. As I said I think the Orange are going to win every game just before the tip-off. That doesn't mean I think they are going to win every game throughout the entire season. My problem with this team is everything outlined by LaggyJon. Last year's defense was mediocre at best. I think it was because Gillon did not have the conditioning needed that only comes from playing the top of the zone for years. Howard and Battle may be up for the challenge but it's not a given. The top of the zone on defense is crucial to our teams success. But I do not share you confidence in Thorpe's contribution on defense at the top of the zone. I think Thorpe's contribution will be more like the second coming of Gillon than Brandon Triche. When the 2-3 zone defense is really working well, all five players will shift and react to every pass shifting back and forth. When it's working well it's just amazing to watch! The problem is you need the entire team to play team defense. It's much harder than it looks. And it takes years to master.

We will probably do better than 12th in the ACC only because JB is such a good coach. But based on the squad and who is on it I can see why someone would have us 12th in a ranking. This team is going to be so different than last year's team in many ways. Until we see them play 12th may or may not be justified. Again, as I've said, we shall see.

 

[SoBristol]

Let's take a starting 5 of Battle & Thorpe at the guards, Thompson at center, and Moyer and Brissett at the forward spots. The rest of an 8.0 rotation is Sidibe at center, Marek D at forward, Howard at guard.

With modest and expected improvement by Thompson, that gives JB 3 promising scorers, and an all-around forward in Brissett who might well prove to much better than his nominal ranking. Moyer will do more than Roberson on the offensive end and could be an effective defensive rebounder -- he is overlooked after his red-shirt year. Thompson's inside defense is a question mark (compared to Lydon), but the other 4 starters should be better defensively than what we had last season. The guys new to the JB zone (Thorpe & Brissett) are likely to be better defensively than the guys who were new last year (Gillon, White).

It comes down to what the 3 forwards (Moyer, Brissett & Marek D) can do on both ends of the court, how quickly they can work in, and how they progress and develop. I believe all 3 will be factors as we prove CBS Sports wrong.

 

[SoBeCuse]

You aren't wrong, but just to devil's advocate a little:

This is kind of a cousin of the "only half of NFL starting quarterbacks were 1st round picks" argument that pops up from time to time. It may be true, but that ignores the denominator: there are a couple of dozen guys at any given time drafted as first round QBs, and hundreds of them drafted in later rounds or undrafted. Even if there's an even split in raw numbers, you're talking about something like a 50% chance that your 1st round QB becomes a starter, and a low single digit percent chance that the other group does.

That's basically how it works with the recruiting rankings/stars. They aren't gospel, but it's more likely that a 4* guy makes it than a 3*, and same with 5* over 4*s. Identifying Hield, Steph Curry or any of the other crazy outlier 3* guys doesn't really change that.

Post-NC, I believe this is a complete list of our 3* scholarship recruits: Buss Patterson, Chino Obokoh, Baye Keita, Brandon Triche, James Southerland, Sean Williams, Devin Brennan-McBride, Arinze Onuaku, Andy Rautins. Definitely a bunch of key guys for us, a few busts, but not a lot of guys that we got huge contributions from as underclassmen.

That's part of why I'm tempering expectations for this season. I'm pretty excited about the potential for the team overall, but out of 10 scholarship players we have 4 guys that have ever played a single minute for us and only 3 upperclassmen, only one of whom has logged any significant minutes for us (and, for reasons covered elsewhere, Mr. Howard doesn't totally scream "veteran team leader"). I don't know if we've ever had a team with so little experience, and when we've had inexperienced teams previously, we were usually relying on more 5*/high-4* caliber young guys than we have now.

Maybe Thorpe seamlessly transitions to the zone, maybe Chukwu's eye is healed and he gives us quality minutes, maybe Frank shakes off last year and fulfills his potential, maybe Thompson makes big strides on defense, maybe those Dolezaj highlights shot on a 2006 Motorola Razr translates to high-level NCAA play immediately. There's a chance enough of those go well that we finish in the top half of the ACC, but I think it's more likely that we struggle a bit, with some more :bang: OOC losses as the team tries to gel early. 12th is probably low (I think there's a good chance we outperform expectations in the ACC given our schedule) but it's hardly the hottest take on earth.

Of course, nothing would make me happier than being wrong.

Good solid and objective analysis without the orange goggles. Well said. Post more often.

 

[jordoo]

Let's take a starting 5 of Battle & Thorpe at the guards, Thompson at center, and Moyer and Brissett at the forward spots. The rest of an 8.0 rotation is Sidibe at center, Marek D at forward, Howard at guard.

With modest and expected improvement by Thompson, that gives JB 3 promising scorers, and an all-around forward in Brissett who might well prove to much better than his nominal ranking. Moyer will do more than Roberson on the offensive end and could be an effective defensive rebounder -- he is overlooked after his red-shirt year. Thompson's inside defense is a question mark (compared to Lydon), but the other 4 starters should be better defensively than what we had last season. The guys new to the JB zone (Thorpe & Brissett) are likely to be better defensively than the guys who were new last year (Gillon, White).

It comes down to what the 3 forwards (Moyer, Brissett & Marek D) can do on both ends of the court, how quickly they can work in, and how they progress and develop. I believe all 3 will be factors as we prove CBS Sports wrong.

Regardless of the starters I believe when its all said and done those 8 are the main rotation. In the end I believe the defense will be better basically for the same reasons you do. Battle and Howard have the length and athleticism and are a year older. Thorpe will not be working with the size deficit Gillon had. That will add up to better defense out top. Moyer, Dolezaj and Brissett all bring the needed length and quickness to play effectively on the wings. Moyer had a season to learn and get stronger. These guys will all be able to cover ground as needed and will be competing for PT so they will be motivated. I think they will provide better defense on the wing than the inconsistent D we had last season. Thompson simply cannot be worse on D at the 5 so he should be better. I feel Sidibe will be a plus defender in the middle. I do think defensive rebounding is a question until we see our three forwards in action.

Offensively like you say we will have three proven scorers but its going to come down to the forwards again. Can they shot well enough to keep things spread? Can they attack and convert.

 

[SoBristol]

...

Offensively like you say we will have three proven scorers but its going to come down to the forwards again. Can they shot well enough to keep things spread? Can they attack and convert.

So, we are in raging agreement. Thompson has the size and athleticism to improve as a defender. He struggled to defend without fouling and needs to improve his commitment to defensive rebounding. Still, we have seen lanky frosh get better as they get stronger, learn what JB expects, and accept a larger role in the rotation. It will help our defense at the 5 if the guards can prevent penetration -- Battle with Thorpe should be a better duo in that element of zone defense.

And, yes, a big key is getting supplemental shooting and inside scoring from Brissett, Moyer and Dolezaj. Defenses will have to key on Thompson & Battle, so these three will have their opportunities.

 

[jordoo]

So, we are in raging agreement. Thompson has the size and athleticism to improve as a defender. He struggled to defend without fouling and needs to improve his commitment to defensive rebounding. Still, we have seen lanky frosh get better as they get stronger, learn what JB expects, and accept a larger role in the rotation. It will help our defense at the 5 if the guards can prevent penetration -- Battle with Thorpe should be a better duo in that element of zone defense.

And, yes, a big key is getting supplemental shooting and inside scoring from Brissett, Moyer and Dolezaj. Defenses will have to key on Thompson & Battle, so these three will have their opportunities.

LOL, pretty much. The good thing with Thompson is that we can replace him with a defensive minded guy in Sidibe if he's struggling. One of the reasons I think this squad can be better than last years is the way I see the rotation working out. I think it ends up being a pretty standard JB type of rotation. 3 guards, 3 forwards, 2 bigs.

 

[Dave85]

LOL, pretty much. The good thing with Thompson is that we can replace him with a defensive minded guy in Sidibe if he's struggling. One of the reasons I think this squad can be better than last years is the way I see the rotation working out. I think it ends up being a pretty standard JB type of rotation. 3 guards, 3 forwards, 2 bigs.

Moyer and Chukwu have to have meaningful contributions this year.

I think our back-line defense will be good enough. My biggest concern is still the top of the zone on defense. Being effective in defending against 3s takes such an huge amount of conditioning by our guards. It's like doing suicide sprints sideways for 10 minutes straight each time on defense.

I think Battle and Thompson will be our stars on offense. Thompson could be our Carmelo-go-to-guy type player. He was very impressive last year. I think he could take a Dion Waiters type sophomore leap in productivity this season. He's the one I'm most interesting in watching (and Battle).

 

[jordoo]

Moyer and Chukwu have to have meaningful contributions this year.

I think our back-line defense will be good enough. My biggest concern is still the top of the zone on defense. Being effective in defending against 3s takes such an huge amount of conditioning by our guards. It's like doing suicide sprints sideways for 10 minutes straight each time on defense.

I think Battle and Thompson will be our stars on offense. Thompson could be our Carmelo-go-to-guy type player. He was very impressive last year. I think he could take a Dion Waiters type sophomore leap in productivity this season. He's the one I'm most interesting in watching (and Battle).

I think Moyer will and he may be the steadiest of our three forwards as far as production goes. I don't see why we have to get meaningful contributions from Chukwu. If we do great but we have Thompson and Sidibe as well. JB rarely plays 3 bigs and IMO it will become apparent early on that Dolezaj, Moyer, Brissett will be getting all the minutes at forward. As long as one of Sidibe/Chukwu can come in and bring a defensive presence while not being completely incompetent on offense we should be fine. One of those guys is going to play a decent amount of minutes as Thompson is pretty foul prone.

There are plenty of concerns to go around. We have size this year out top. We have two returning players who are familiar with the system. It will be better, how much better is debatable. I remember last year teams easily penetrated and then hit the cutter on the baseline for dunks and layups. It seemed to happen multiple times every game. That needs to stop.

 

[iommi]

I think Moyer will and he may be the steadiest of our three forwards as far as production goes. I don't see why we have to get meaningful contributions from Chukwu. If we do great but we have Thompson and Sidibe as well. JB rarely plays 3 bigs and IMO it will become apparent early on that Dolezaj, Moyer, Brissett will be getting all the minutes at forward. As long as one of Sidibe/Chukwu can come in and bring a defensive presence while not being completely incompetent on offense we should be fine. One of those guys is going to play a decent amount of minutes as Thompson is pretty foul prone.

There are plenty of concerns to go around. We have size this year out top. We have two returning players who are familiar with the system. It will be better, how much better is debatable. I remember last year teams easily penetrated and then hit the cutter on the baseline for dunks and layups. It seemed to happen multiple times every game. That needs to stop.

This makes sense but it sounds like JB is regarding TT as a forward. Doesn't fit in with the numbers. The 3 forward rotation makes the most sense, with TT sprinkled in at the 4 on occasion. Also, we really need JB to play 8 1/2 this year. Unlikely, I know.

 

[jordoo]

This makes sense but it sounds like JB is regarding TT as a forward. Doesn't fit in with the numbers. The 3 forward rotation makes the most sense, with TT sprinkled in at the 4 on occasion. Also, we really need JB to play 8 1/2 this year. Unlikely, I know.

I know but these things tend to work themselves out. Hopefully before the season starts JB and the staff have seen enough to keep from early season lineup mistakes that set the team back like last year. Thorpe coming in late isn't as much of a big deal since he's going to play and its going to be a 3 guard rotation. He will need to learn the zone and the offense but its not changing the rotation IMO. I am a bit worried about seeing them try to force it to work with Chukwu and that pushing Thompson to the 4 where personally I feel he is even less suited than the 5 on defense. That could lead to major OOC struggles again this year with everyone being so young. Basically I'm counting on Moyer, Brissett and Dolezaj to all be good enough on both ends to force JB into making TT a 5 early on. Maybe Chukwu will be great and I shouldn't be worried. Lots to figure out and the good news is that JB seems very involved which means he will figure it out.

 

[SoBristol]

Don't want to be negative on any player, but it is difficult to project Chukwu as useful in the offense, and this team will need to get something from all 5 spots. If Thompson is to play a forward spot (and he is very good from the high post), Sidibe will be a better option at center.

 

[Dave85]

Don't want to be negative on any player, but it is difficult to project Chukwu as useful in the offense, and this team will need to get something from all 5 spots. If Thompson is to play a forward spot (and he is very good from the high post), Sidibe will be a better option at center.

Chukwu is another mystery. I hope he's able to play defense really well. On offense he can score with put-back garbage baskets. Or at least learn how to make a good kick-out pass. I hope he doesn't try to hit 10 foot jump shots. If this team is going to finish better than 12th or make the NCAA tournament every player on the roster who gets PT will have to make meaningful contributions.

Even if Thompson and Battle score high double digits per game we still need significant offense from the other players. And if the defense is mediocre this team will not win enough games. Last year's team I was kind of positive going into the season. This team reminds me of the team 2 years ago when many people posting here were Orange sober. I haven't once been Orange drunk on this team yet.

 

[SoBristol]

...

Even if Thompson and Battle score high double digits per game we still need significant offense from the other players. And if the defense is mediocre this team will not win enough games. Last year's team I was kind of positive going into the season. This team reminds me of the team 2 years ago when many people posting here were Orange sober. I haven't once been Orange drunk on this team yet.

Yes, but consider that Thrope scored double digits last season, so we have a trio of scorers. Pretty good start, right there.

Last season's pre-season predictions were wrong for reasons that are obvious now. Many were projecting Chukwu to be a decent center, simply because he was 7ft 2 (even with few observations of his play). They were expecting Lydon to play SF, when he lacked perimeter skills other than shooting an open 3. They were expecting White to play 2G because -- well, because they had Lydon penciled as SF. Some thought Roberson would develop some moves and a better jumper, and Howard would be an effective pass-first PG because he had made a handful of plays in the tournament run.

There are unknowns this season (as always), but we have a good idea of where Battle, Thompson & Thorpe will fit; Moyer looks to be a good replacement at PF, and Brissett was declared to be ACC ready by Donte Greene. This rotation might surprise you and not be so mediocre on defense, for reasons I posted in this thread, above.

 

[sufandu]

Huh?

Did you actually misunderstand his post or is this just a disrespectful way of disagreeing?

 

[GooseMutt]

Did you actually misunderstand his post or is this just a disrespectful way of disagreeing?

Neither it was lengthy and I was being sarcastic. Absolutely no disrespect to the poster. Just in that mood at the time

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I can kind of get it because as they said, we're crazy young and we're a pretty big question mark this year.

However, leaving Battle off the list of "Biggest Names Returning" is completely absurd and indefensible.

See how he does as the #1 option that defenses key on.

 

[Dave85]

This team reminds me of the team 2 years ago. There are just so many unknowns. Until we see how this unit works together and how well they play defense it's pretty much impossible to predict how well this team is going to do. The problem with the cream puffs you get early in the schedule is sometimes they make you think the team is much better than it is. I think the one or two challenging games in December will give the best insight for the January through March games. When those January games roll around it becomes much harder to get wins. I expect Thompson and Battle to be great. It would be nice if Moyer, Howard, and Chukwu surprise to the upside. The incoming freshmen are always challenged by the speed of D1 CBB. And the transfers have to learn how to play 2-3 zone defense so they are mixed bag. At this point, I expect this year's squad to be about the same as last year's squad, maybe worse, until I am happily proven otherwise.

 

[two3zone]

This team reminds me of the team 2 years ago. There are just so many unknowns. Until we see how this unit works together and how well they play defense it's pretty much impossible to predict how well this team is going to do. The problem with the cream puffs you get early in the schedule is sometimes they make you think the team is much better than it is. I think the one or two challenging games in December will give the best insight for the January through March games. When those January games roll around it becomes much harder to get wins. I expect Thompson and Battle to be great. It would be nice if Moyer, Howard, and Chukwu surprise to the upside. The incoming freshmen are always challenged by the speed of D1 CBB. And the transfers have to learn how to play 2-3 zone defense so they are mixed bag. At this point, I expect this year's squad to be about the same as last year's squad, maybe worse, until I am happily proven otherwise.

We had two 5th year seniors at the 1 and 2 two years ago, 3rd year Roberson and a McDonalds AA Richardson coming in. If that's unknown then I wouldn't even know what to describe this team as.

 

[Dave85]

We had two 5th year seniors at the 1 and 2 two years ago, 3rd year Roberson and a McDonalds AA Richardson coming in. If that's unknown then I wouldn't even know what to describe this team as.

Two years ago some people were talking final four and some people were saying NIT before the season started. My point is after last season who the heck knows what this team will be like with the transfers and the freshmen. You do agree many times for many freshmen their high school game doesn't always immediately translate into success at the D1 CBB level?

Just out of curiosity, how successful do you think this team will be? Losing record, NIT, NCAA, 32, Sweet 16, Elite 8, FF, NC?

 

[two3zone]

Two years ago some people were talking final four and some people were saying NIT before the season started. My point is after last season who the heck knows what this team will be like with the transfers and the freshmen. You do agree many times for many freshmen their high school game doesn't always immediately translate into success at the D1 CBB level?

Just out of curiosity, how successful do you think this team will be? Losing record, NIT, NCAA, 32, Sweet 16, Elite 8, FF, NC?

I don't think the two teams compare but I understand there are unknowns, just think we have far more this year.

With the schedule released I think we're NIT or barely in.

I think it would be difficult having a losing record.

The year after this one I think we'll be REALLY good, like preseason top 10-15 with the returners and the newcomers, especially if we get a top point guard to come in or Washington is better than advertised (which I think he will be year two).