Changing Expectations

[bevosu]

My expectations for this program have been low for a number of years. The Hopkins coach-in-waiting debacle was a serious clue.

To slightly change the subject, what is with JB in his last two post-game press conferences? A total change of demeanor and attitude. I've been watching his PG pressers for decades and I've never seen him act as humble, relaxed, and actually likable. Nothing but kind words for the players. Something is up.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

In fairness, JB has done a better job this season than I expected. I knew the man defense wasn't going to stick, but to his credit he is actually playing more guys and giving them opportunities to develop.

That said, my Iggy prediction was that we would have another losing season so my expectations were very low. If we do end up with a losing record, I'm ambivalent.

The program needs new juice. Who knows when we get it. It's just a bummer because JB isn't going to go out on top, and it's looking like he isn't leaving the program in better shape than he found it.

 

[DilemaCuse]

My expectations in the off season was that this looked like a rebuild and record would be about 16-16, .500. Just slightly better than last year. My issue is settling for a rebuild after a losing season is unacceptable. There was no sense of urgency to utilize the portal to upgrade the talent, but rather just to replace Frank. The freshman class is nice but not good enough to trigger a turnaround. Almost all of us could see that except JB for some reason.

 

[Lukeyloo]

I’m just not sure what SU is expecting to occur each year without changes (and I’m not even saying JB, necessarily).

Right, I don’t think it necessarily needs to be change by way of the head coach (although that will obviously be sooner than later). However this head coach, paired with these assistants, isn’t cutting it.

It seems to me that Boeheim would rather stay loyal to his assistant coaches than prioritize success in the final act of his career. Sadly this is all at the expense of the program.

 

[pwong]

When we lost to BC in 2013, I was devastated. Now I don’t even bat an eye when we lose by double digits.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Buddy Boeheim being good enough to be a good player for SU is weirdly what screwed us, big picture wise.

If JB left after the disappointment of ‘17 or the underdog sweet 16 run in ‘18, we still would’ve had some stature as a program to salvage and maintain. At that point we were a good program coming off a down 4 year stretch that still included a final four and sweet 16. Hire the right guy and we’re rolling right now.

Once Buddy got here, we were locked into 4 more years and now we’re talking 8 down years. Almost a decade. Now we’re just a nonfactor program that was good a long time ago.

Exactly, it did a lot of damage. If Hopkins sticks around and recruiting was still humming, Buddy is no more than an 8th man on vintage SU teams. That combined w his relationship with Girard caused our backcourt talent and depth to drop, where now we are finally trying to get it back to the level it should be but are still far from it. Joe was great yesterday but he's not a prototypical 2 guard for SU.

 

[Cuse181]

My expectations in the off season was that this looked like a rebuild and record would be about 16-16, .500. Just slightly better than last year. My issue is settling for a rebuild after a losing season is unacceptable. There was no sense of urgency to utilize the portal to upgrade the talent, but rather just to replace Frank. The freshman class is nice but not good enough to trigger a turnaround. Almost all of us could see that except JB for some reason.

If this isn’t his last year, then I’m not surprised he didn’t target this year as some magical turnaround season and instead an opportunity to build depth. Maybe he really did think these guys had the skill sets to support Jesse and Joe. Maybe he had the assts call around and see if any scoring forwards had interest in coming to cuse and they weren’t getting any traction with people. Or Maybe he is just an idiot who after 40 years has lost his edge. Who really knows.

 

[Cuse181]

Exactly, it did a lot of damage. If Hopkins sticks around and recruiting was still humming, Buddy is no more than an 8th man on vintage SU teams. That combined w his relationship with Girard caused our backcourt talent and depth to drop, where now we are finally trying to get it back to the level it should be but are still far from it. Joe was great yesterday but he's not a prototypical 2 guard for SU.

If Hopkins sticks around, we’re probably onto another coach by now. If the antiquated 2-3 zone is the root of all problems, a steadfast follower probably isn’t a winner pick.

 

[Manleymen]

Wildhack has to be as critical of the basketball program as he is of the football program. He needs to look at everything. It’s about time he addresses the basketball program at the end of the year like he does for football and the press has the nads to ask tough questions.

Agreed! I wonder if Brad Stevens has that itch and desire to return to the NCAA and build up / restore a former nationally respected power? Anyone feel he could recruit and work his magic?

 

[sufandu]

What were the expectations this year? This is a serious question because the basketball forum is filled with anger.

I saw the roster this year and knew nothing of note would be accomplished this season. What I wanted to see was the youth develop so that they could take a step towards next season where they'd be able to be competitive on a nightly basis. Unfortunately many of them haven't and some look like they're not ready to play at this level which is another topic for another thread. Mind you, that's not a Syracuse only problem.

I'm not sure the OP was specifically referencing this year's expectations. It's more about the slowly eroding expectations over the course of about a decade from where we were for 30 years prior.

 

[sufandu]

College programs go through cycles. Alabama Football was a below average program with anomaly years from 1997 to 2007.

Usually the down cycles happen after a successful coach leaves while there is trial and error in finding a replacement. That's not what's happening here.

 

[SBU72]

The ACC is 3 things:
1. Financial stability.
2. Lifeline for the football team.
3. Death to basketball recruiting.

I really think that #3 is the biggest cause of decline of SU b-ball. JB started his career with the Louie and Bowie recruitment (a great start) then the Big East/ESPN fueled it to national prominence. Even then towards the end of that conference, SU had to battle to stay in the top 4. The move to the ACC has all but doomed the program, not just the aging coach. What Big East team moving to the ACC has maintained success? Will a new coach really lead to a raise to the upper levels of the conference? And if it does, will SU be able to stay there when the new coach moves on building on his success? Sorry to be a Debbie downer but 5th to 9th place maybe the best that can be done year to year.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

It’s upsetting to see the state of SU basketball these days. Every year for the past 9 seasons there have been incrementally lowered expectations and people have come to accept it. First it was “we’re right on the edge of being ranked” . Then it was “we’ll be a lower seed in the tournament, but we can make some noise!” . Which then turned to “just be on the bubble”. The latest has been “will this be a winning season?” .

I know this is coming off as a reactionary post from the Virginia loss and some might say “who cares, they’re a top 25 team and we only lost by 7” . To that I would counter that that game was never really in doubt, being down 20+ at one point. I remember when fans believed SU had a chance, if not expected, a win against anyone. Those days are long gone and it isn’t changing until something changes.

I realized an hour after the Virginia game yesterday that I wasn’t angry.

In days of yore, a Syracuse basketball loss would ruin a day. It would put me into a sour mood. Yesterday? Nothing. At all. It just didn’t matter.

In the game thread, it’s more entertaining to read/write funny stuff than to pay rapt attention to the game itself. Because it just doesn’t matter.

The team record? I was surprised to see we were 10-5 going in. I mean, I’ve seen every minute of every game, but I wasn’t paying attention to the record. I still haven’t looked at the ACC standings. Because it just doesn’t matter.

As long as JB is the coach, it just doesn’t matter. We’re just playing it out. Running out the clock. Feels like that recent hostage situation where the victims had to just wait for the captor to get drowsy and fall asleep so they could escape….

 

[DilemaCuse]

If Hopkins sticks around, we’re probably onto another coach by now. If the antiquated 2-3 zone is the root of all problems, a steadfast follower probably isn’t a winner pick.

And that is certainly possible and totally normal. Many successions have failed, Eddie Suttons son at ok st, pat knight, Kevin ollie fired despite a natty etc. What isn't normal is holding on to a 78 year old coach at a major power program.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Agreed! I wonder if Brad Stevens has that itch and desire to return to the NCAA and build up / restore a former nationally respected power? Anyone feel he could recruit and work his magic?

Nah, we don't want him, Brad Stevens can't win the big one.

 

[SUMJF]

If we don’t make the tournament this season that will be the 5th time in 9 years.
We weren’t making the tournament as an at-large in 2020 so technically it would be 4th in 8 years but I am counting that season.

The fanbase is frustrated and rightfully so.
The Board of Trustees should have absolutely nothing to do with non-legal coaching matters in the athletic department.
If the coach hasn’t broken the law or NCAA violations coaching decisions should be made by the athletic director.
The AD needs to step up. Coach has done a lot and that loyalty has been returned. The fans shouldn’t be forced to have to stay home to voice displeasure.

 

[PoppyHart]

Is it too late to join the B1G?

 

[UpstateSM]

We were worse than our record said we were last season and are worse than our record will say we are at the end of this season.

If the ACC was currently a competent power conference we probably win five or six games at most in league play. Really, really lucky that the timing is what it is.

 

[rocklloyd]

Here’s how bad it is. I have no idea when next game is or who we play. And this is coming from someone who had seasons from 1987 to 2016.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Here’s how bad it is. I have no idea when next game is or who we play. And this is coming from someone who had seasons from 1987 to 2016.

That’s pretty consistent with a lot of fans. Idk how Wildhack is ok with this.

 

[Manleymen]

Brad Stevens!

 

[AlaskaSU]

SU basketball will be stuck in a state of purgatory until JB retires. There’s no excitement about the future or expectations because the future is completely un

Prepare to be disappointed. ACC kids have better choices than us. We do not have any rivalries. Tv exposure is now more important than arena size. Success is all about recruiting. The product we are selling to recruits is a shadow of what it was when we were the beast of the East.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Prepare to be disappointed. ACC kids have better choices than us. We do not have any rivalries. Tv exposure is now more important than arena size. Success is all about recruiting. The product we are selling to recruits is a shadow of what it was when we were the beast of the East.

Thank god you’re not running things.

 

[SUMJF]

Prepare to be disappointed. ACC kids have better choices than us. We do not have any rivalries. Tv exposure is now more important than arena size. Success is all about recruiting. The product we are selling to recruits is a shadow of what it was when we were the beast of the East.

Name one basketball recruit that we have lost because of the ACC and not because of coaching staff recruiting hard enough.

Why has Creighton done a good job in the Big East? Or Rutgers done better in the Big Ten than they did in the Big East.

It’s all about coaching not the conference.

 

[Grbac]

I would have been ok with 0 wins this season if it meant a new coach.
The fact the we do not know when JB will hang them up makes it worse. He could be here another 5-10 years for all we know. And that means another 5-10 years of mediocrity if we’re lucky.
We have nothing to look forward to. No big recruits. No coaching changes. No assistant change. Nothing.
We are officially in purgatory until Jim Boeheim retires.